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Old 02-17-2010, 11:53 AM   #1
poleboy90
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Default SA2000 Snell rating good until...?

Ive searched around and cant get a definite answer. From what I understand, SA2000 would be good in NASA/SCCA autocrosses until ~2015 but Im still not sure if they would be good after 2010 for HPDE or PDX? Can anyone help me out?

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Old 02-17-2010, 11:56 AM   #2
mav1c
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You need to check with the specific groups you plan to run with, but I would guess that most HPDE groups will require an SA2005 or newer helmet after this year.
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Old 02-17-2010, 02:30 PM   #3
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So PDX and HPDE dont have national rulebooks like SCCA solo and vary by "chapters"? I found the rulebooks....

NASA HPDE:

From Club Codes and Regulations 2010.2, Section 11.3.1, page 45:
Quote:
1. Use a proper fitting helmet that meets Snell 1990 (SA1990; M1990) or newer (or
equivalent) standards for cars or motorcycles.
SCCA PDX/Club Trials:

From SCCA Time Trial Rules, Section 10.8, page 36.
Quote:
10.8. REQUIRED DRIVER SAFETY EQUIPMENT
All participants shall wear long sleeves and pants (100% cotton material recommended) and shoes which fully cover the foot at least to the ankle while on course. Helmets which meet Snell M-95 requirements or higher are required.

EDIT: THE FOLLOWING ARE FOR ROAD RACING...
In the Codes and Regulations 2010.2 for NASA it says on Page 70, Section 15.17.3:
Quote:
15.17.3 Helmet
All drivers are required to wear an approved helmet while on track. Helmets must be
approved by Snell and carry a sticker of Snell 2000 ( SA2000) or better*. Ratings other
than that of “SA” (Special Application), i.e. “M1995, M2000”, are not acceptable.
*Alternatively, helmets with an FIA certification of 8860-2004, or an SFI label showing
the rating of 31.1A, 31.2A, or 31.1/2005 are acceptable. It is strongly recommended
that any helmet sustaining any substantial impact be replaced.
In the SCCA General Rule Book 2010, Section 9.3.20.C.2, page 69:
Quote:
Crash helmets approved by the Snell Foundation with Snell
sticker 2000 or later Special Application (SA2000), or by the
SFI with a SFI Sticker 31.1a for open faced helmets and a SFI
sticker 31.2a for closed faced (if purchased prior to 12/31/04),
SFI 31.1 (if purchased after 1/1/05), or by the FIA standard
8860-2004, or British Standards Institute BS6658-85 type A/
FR. The back of each driver’s helmet shall be labeled with a
minimum of the driver’s name. The use of a head and neck
support system is highly recommended. As of 1/1/12, head and
neck restraints meeting SFI 38.1 or FIA 8858 will be required.
Accident damaged helmets should be sent by the driver or his
or her representative to the Snell Memorial Foundation, 3628
Madison Ave., North Highland, CA. 95660 (ph) 916-331-5073
(attn. Edward B. Becker). Details of the accident should be
included. Freon based total loss helmet cooling systems are
not allowed.

Last edited by poleboy90; 02-17-2010 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 02-17-2010, 02:40 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poleboy90 View Post
So PDX and HPDE dont have national rulebooks like SCCA solo and vary by "chapters"? I found the rulebooks....

In the Codes and Regulations 2010.2 for NASA it says on Page 70, Section 15.17.3:



In the SCCA General Rule Book 2010, Section 9.3.20.C.2, page 69:



I think the previous is for road racing not HPDE because for SCCA Time Trial Rules it says:



However, I just dont know when these rules will change.
From the SCCA side you've got it correct. For HPDE and Club trials, you only need an M95. For Track Trials or road racing you need an SA2000. If you are looking to buy a helmet, just go for the SA2005 and you'll be covered.

If this SCCA SA approval cycles follows what has happened in the past... the SA2000 will be good until the SA2010's have been introduced to the market (not by a 10 year expiration date). I haven't heard anything about when that will happen.

For other clubs HPDE's it is up to their discretion.
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Old 02-17-2010, 04:40 PM   #5
poleboy90
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Ok so it looks like I was looking at the competitive sections of the rule books. For clarification if anyone is interested...

NASA HPDE:

From Club Codes and Regulations 2010.2, Section 11.3.1, page 45:
Quote:
1. Use a proper fitting helmet that meets Snell 1990 (SA1990; M1990) or newer (or
equivalent) standards for cars or motorcycles.
SCCA PDX/Club Trials:

From SCCA Time Trial Rules, Section 10.8, page 36.
Quote:
10.8. REQUIRED DRIVER SAFETY EQUIPMENT
All participants shall wear long sleeves and pants (100% cotton material recommended) and shoes which fully cover the foot at least to the ankle while on course. Helmets which meet Snell M-95 requirements or higher are required.
Ok so for SCCA PDX and autocross I should be good for another 5 years or so. And for NASA HPDE, at least another 5 years I guess?
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Old 02-17-2010, 05:45 PM   #6
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I cannot understand why people will pay out the ass for race fuel and then proceed to put a cheap old helmet on.

Its your head... SA2005 at the least. the SA2010's are out now.
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Old 02-17-2010, 06:31 PM   #7
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The SA2010's don't come out until October of this year, this has been confirmed to me by multiple manufacturers, most clubs will allow you to use a SA2000 until the SA2010's come out.
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperguy324 View Post
I cannot understand why people will pay out the ass for race fuel and then proceed to put a cheap old helmet on.

Its your head... SA2005 at the least. the SA2010's are out now.
Part of the problem is that people don't know the differences between the different ratings.
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:58 AM   #9
poleboy90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperguy324 View Post
I cannot understand why people will pay out the ass for race fuel and then proceed to put a cheap old helmet on.

Its your head... SA2005 at the least. the SA2010's are out now.
Haha trust me I do not run race fuel in my 165 hp RS. What improvements did they make from SA2000 to SA2005? I couldnt find any info on it.

I figure that I would get a helmet from a respectable manufacturer (looking at Simpsons) but I dont have the money to spend $400 dollars on one right now. Even the old SA2000 helmets arent cheap.
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Old 02-18-2010, 02:00 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPM View Post
The SA2010's don't come out until October of this year, this has been confirmed to me by multiple manufacturers, most clubs will allow you to use a SA2000 until the SA2010's come out.
Not true, I have held the new Arai SA2010, Although when asked it seemed only the top level would be provided the newer helmets (which are not SA2010 but FIA ) As of Jan 2010 the SA2000 has been banned from international events so..


Do not waste your coin on a SA2000.. stick with the SA2005.

There is not much difference between the 05 and the 10.. just some ways of testing.
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Old 02-18-2010, 03:09 AM   #11
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Last year I teched a guy in a new 911 turbo who was going to run the roval at Texas Motor Speedway. This guy was some well known former pro race car driver from the 60's and 70's. He brought his own helmet... It was a Snell 1975!!!
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Old 02-18-2010, 08:27 AM   #12
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Most groups I run with - PCA (who I also tech for), BMW and a few others, allow the CURRENT and the previous Snell standards. The 2010 helmets are out so 2005 and 10 are allowed - we are giving folks an extra year on the 2000 since the 2010 prices are still pretty high...

HTH

Ray
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:47 AM   #13
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it's not just about improvements, it's about the material in a 10 year old helmet being worn and not as effective as new materials, from the foam padding to the cloth to the condition of the shell, things do get worn out. Considering you can have a snell rated helmet for around 140 bucks on sale, that's a pretty damn good deal for 10 years use.
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperguy324 View Post
Not true, I have held the new Arai SA2010, Although when asked it seemed only the top level would be provided the newer helmets (which are not SA2010 but FIA ) As of Jan 2010 the SA2000 has been banned from international events so..


Do not waste your coin on a SA2000.. stick with the SA2005.

There is not much difference between the 05 and the 10.. just some ways of testing.
The manufacturers I have spoken to (Bell & Stand21) said they have an industry wide agreement not to offer SA2010 helemets for sale to the public until October. If you know differently please tell me where I can buy an SA2010 helmet right now retail in America. Of course the new helmets exist, they are in development and testing. Lewis Hamilton was running the next generation helmet a year ago, but that doesn't help the average club racer who buys his gear from a store and isn't sponsored by Arai...

The popular club racing groups in America (NASA, PCA, etc) allow SA2000 until SA2010 comes out in October.

International rules and FIA standards are irrelevent to the original poster who is going to be doing autocross and HPDE in South Carolina.

No one is advocating going out and buying an SA2000 helmet (if you can even find one), I was just saying that if you have an SA2000 you don't NEED to replace it until the SA2010's come out in October (assuming you are club racing or doing DE's in America like the original poster)
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:50 AM   #15
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Snell SA2010 Standard helmets are NOT out yet. They haven't even sent out the stickers to the manufacturers. Especially if you are a tech person you should know this. The absolute earliest an SA2010 helmet will be released is October of this year.

PCA/SCCA/BMWCCA aren't giving folks an extra year. They're just following their rules. The rules state, the current and previous Snell standards. The current standard is still 2005.

The only newish standard out for helmets is the FIA 8860 which won't apply to most people as the cheapest helmet that meets that standard is 2700 dollars (Stand21) and most are closer to 4000 dollars.

<--work for safety gear retailer and speak with helmet mfrs. on a regular basis.
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Old 02-18-2010, 11:51 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperguy324 View Post
Not true, I have held the new Arai SA2010,
100% certain you haven't held one that had the sticker so no way it was an SA2010. It may have met the standards but it wasn't A SA2010
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:15 PM   #17
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Well here in europe several helmet companys have been showing off their new helmets.. I have had the Arai GP-6 RC in my hands.. And I know a couple drivers with them.
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooleyjb View Post
100% certain you haven't held one that had the sticker so no way it was an SA2010. It may have met the standards but it wasn't A SA2010
for sure I did not pull back the liner and check... the rep said it had passed and was FIA 8860 and SA2010 compliant .. this was at the Nurburgring 24hr race in the drivers area.
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Old 02-18-2010, 12:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperguy324 View Post
Well here in europe several helmet companys have been showing off their new helmets.. I have had the Arai GP-6 RC in my hands.. And I know a couple drivers with them.
Yeah there are GP6 helmets out there being used with just the FIA certs. Seen em all. The new FIA 8860 standard helmets are very cool but VERY heavy. All the extra stuff they had to add to make the helmets stronger made them noticeably heavier at the same time.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:05 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooleyjb View Post
Yeah there are GP6 helmets out there being used with just the FIA certs. Seen em all. The new FIA 8860 standard helmets are very cool but VERY heavy. All the extra stuff they had to add to make the helmets stronger made them noticeably heavier at the same time.
Felt light to me... then again I have a very large neck. I currently use the Suomy F1 w/Peltor Ears.. And have no problems doing 4hr stints in it.

What are you using?
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperguy324 View Post
Felt light to me... then again I have a very large neck. I currently use the Suomy F1 w/Peltor Ears.. And have no problems doing 4hr stints in it.

What are you using?


Might not have been the 8860 helmet and just the regular GP6.

I have a few helmets. Bell T-6, Bell M4 an HJC on the way and maybe a STand21 on the way.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooleyjb View Post
Might not have been the 8860 helmet and just the regular GP6.

I have a few helmets. Bell T-6, Bell M4 an HJC on the way and maybe a STand21 on the way.
Is the standard gp6 carbon?
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Old 02-18-2010, 02:21 PM   #23
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The Motorcycle helmets may be out: http://www.bestcovery.com/shoei-x-12-motorcycle-helmet

Ray
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Old 02-18-2010, 02:34 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viperguy324 View Post
Is the standard gp6 carbon?
No that's the whizzy 8860. Maybe not as noticeable when sitting by itself but side by side they are a good bit heavier. Nothing most people couldnt' handle. I wouldn't reccomend it for a guy who spends a lot of time in high G karting situations.
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Old 02-19-2010, 10:42 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooleyjb View Post
Might not have been the 8860 helmet and just the regular GP6.

I have a few helmets. Bell T-6, Bell M4 an HJC on the way and maybe a STand21 on the way.
did HJC cut you a deal?
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