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Old 02-20-2010, 02:44 PM   #1
BCallahan
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Default Pennzoil Ultra?

The thought of even asking an oil question on here gives me nightmares, but after searching for a while, I found little and decided I am going to risk being ridiculed and ask away

I just saw an ad in the recent Car and Driver for a new synthetic called Pennzoil Ultra. Did some research and so far found this:

Data Sheet


According to a source of Johnny at BobistheOilGuy.com (BIOG), "Its a new extremely high performance synthetic just coming out...the claim is it cleans 35% more engine sludge than our best oil (Platinum) and is based on ASTM Sequence V-G testing. If you want to keep your engine as close to factory clean as possible, this would be the product to use. Also makes the claim No leading synthetic offers better wear protection and now is the only motor oil recommended by Ferrari USA. It's not being promoted for extended drain."


So here it goes, what are your thoughts/experiences on Pennzoil Ultra?
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:22 PM   #2
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Sounds interesting, I'm looking forward to seeing some UOA's on it over at BITOG. AFAIK, it's just now hitting store shelves so I'm guessing you won't get too many responses from folks that are using it, but I could be wrong.
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Old 02-20-2010, 08:34 PM   #3
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If you use the cheapest synthetic oil money can buy it will not leave deposits, so using this oil for the supposed reason that it's a cleaner is super super retarded. A wise person would run whatever synthetic forever or run AutoRX if they did use dino oil and had deposits or wanted to clean an unknown engine.

Oil is oil....remember this. Unless you are interested in it for your own personal knowledge or find it interesting, there's no reason to get all fancy.
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Old 02-20-2010, 09:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
If you use the cheapest synthetic oil money can buy it will not leave deposits...
Not true. Some synthetics and/or engines do leave deposits.

Ultra is probably good stuff since it has ester additives.

-Dennis
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Old 02-21-2010, 12:26 AM   #5
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Waiting for the Pennzoil Ultra European Formula 5w-40 that is Ferrari-approved. Until then, Rotella T6
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Old 02-21-2010, 09:41 AM   #6
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A few BITOG members have already has some VOAs done on the 5W20 and 5W30 versions. It appears that Ultra is poised to become a great extended drain interval oil. The virgin TBN is 13(!). The only thing that really comes close to this is Amsoil SSO at $10.50/quart.
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Old 02-21-2010, 12:24 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesWilson2 View Post
Waiting for the Pennzoil Ultra European Formula 5w-40 that is Ferrari-approved. ..
Even if we got European PU, how difficult would it be to get? It's like the PP Euro 5W-30 and 5W-40. I've never seen them. Have you?

-Dennis
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Old 02-21-2010, 04:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Not true. Some synthetics and/or engines do leave deposits.

-Dennis
I agree with your input, but considering we sell our cars every 3 years it's not an issue with any severity. Most people when they think or hear about deposits remember the oil commercial pictures of black, gummy motors. This is not what synthetics do. I hope you understand my yes/no argument.
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Old 02-21-2010, 06:08 PM   #9
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I hate apple/oranges comparisons, but the first thing that popped into my mind was the problem the VW/Audi/Porsche owner's are having in DI cars running manufacturer spec synthetic and having huge deposit issues.

VW Eos with 22k miles (from vwvortex):
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r.../valve2pn3.gif

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 02-21-2010 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 02-21-2010, 08:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
I hate apple/oranges comparisons, but the first thing that popped into my mind was the problem the VW/Audi/Porsche owner's are having in DI cars running manufacturer spec synthetic and having huge deposit issues.

VW Eos with 22k miles (from vwvortex):
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r.../valve2pn3.gif
Conditions like the one pictured have everything to do with VW's crappy PCV system and nothing to do with what kind of oil is in the sump.

It's a well known issue. Couple the poor PCV design with the fact that DI eninges don't have the luxury of a detergent-packed solvent (gasoline) being sprayed on the back side of the intake valve, keeping it clean. A liquid trap in the PCV system that prevents liquid oil from entering the intake will clear most of it up.
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:23 PM   #11
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHorspwer View Post
Conditions like the one pictured have everything to do with VW's crappy PCV system and nothing to do with what kind of oil is in the sump.
Sorry, dead wrong. Running Renewable Lubricants, Inc. product in the sump has nearly eliminated the issue. I will agree that cleaning up the PCV gases could help significantly, and that DI engines don't have the opportunity to get fuel cleaners on the upstream side of the valves, which keeps them clean with conventional fuel injection systems. Nevertheless, the undeniable fact is that the oil in the sump can make a very dramatic difference.

It's nice that the majors are picking up on what RLI has been doing for some time now. Deposits can be a major issue, even with expensive synthetics.
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:28 PM   #13
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Quote:
Sorry, dead wrong. Running Renewable Lubricants, Inc. product in the sump has nearly eliminated the issue.
Care to elaborate?

I've looked over the BITOG threads and they're nearly three years old, a few ended badly with no follow-up, and not much else has been posted since. I can't find anything specifically indicating that this cures VW's deposit issues or has even been proposed as a fix. It's also not VW 502 approved, so you're playing with your warranty too.

How exactly does it "nearly eliminated" the issue? Is the volitility so low, it simply doesn't evaporate and travel up the PCV? Does the additive pack contain leprechaun poop, which we all know is an excellent, if not elusive, deposit control additive?

I don't know what stake you have in RLI or Dyson Analysis, but you've pimped the oil on BITOG, here on NASIOC (saying that you personally worked closely with RLI to develop a formula for your fleet), on other Subaru forums, and on a couple Mazda forums. I can travel to any forum and propose that my boutique oil blend will cause no deposits, clean like a mexican maid, allow a 25K mile oil change interval, keep the car waxed, and cure AIDS.

Again, care to elaborate or offer up a less generic explination?
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Old 02-22-2010, 09:35 PM   #14
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Oh, I forgot about the oil store. So I guess they might be one place that could also carry Euro PU. Some of those orangeline links just keep loading and loading. bitogers crash the site?

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 02-22-2010 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 02-22-2010, 10:11 PM   #15
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The group of Audi owners (worldwide) that tested several oils (VAG-certified, plus non-certified) in the DI engines and found dramatically lower iron wear, is comprised of the same people who discovered the clean engines after running the RLI. I am not aware of the specific mode of action through which the results occur, nor am I aware whether anyone is, with complete certainty. I believe it to be a consequence of the bio component(s) of the fluid. There is simply radically less build-up with that fluid in the engine; end of story.

If this data (pictures were included) is no longer on BITOG, I don't know why it isn't. I will note that, IME, it has been nearly impossible to usefully search for material on BITOG for some years now. There was a major board software change back then which didn't eliminate the old info, but it screwed up the database somehow such that searching simply didn't reveal what you were looking for. Though this should not be an issue for anything posted in the past several years, I still see very significant difficulty searching for things that I know perfectly well are (were?) there, either because I posted some of it, or because I have or had links to it. You seem to be skeptical of motives, which is often wise. Perhaps you should extend your skepticism to the major oil companies that exert significant control over that board now?

As far as me and RLI, the relationship is this: We buy products from them for the fleet because they're working better for us than the competition. That is the entirety of the relationship. I did indeed work with their formulator to design an engine oil for us so that we could get longer drains (for lower TCO), use 1 engine oil across the entire fleet, and deal with some specific issues we have. I also contacted Lubrication Engineers and Schaeffer for possible custom work, but they simply had no interest whatsoever. I investigated a large number of potential sources of an off-the-shelf fluid to meet our requirements, including many of the big-name synthetics, but there simply isn't one.

Last edited by bulwnkl; 02-22-2010 at 10:37 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 02-27-2010, 12:10 PM   #16
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Base stock info not really new, but an interesting article.

Article about PU in Jobber's World.

Discussion at bitog .
Quote:
According to Dr. Sutherland, whereas some of the Pennzoil Ultra grades are blended with some PAO, Group III base oil is the primary type used, given their superior solvency for the product's cleansing capabilities as compared to PAO. He added, however, that the type of base stock in use is selected to aid the formulator in achieving the desired product performance.
Of course, Shell gives little info on the cleaning technology.
Quote:
Shell only said, "it's a new and unique, proprietary technology exclusive to Shell and unlike what we have seen before."
Bumping this thread instead of creating two per day like people are doing at bitog.

-Dennis
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Old 02-27-2010, 06:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
.


Bumping this thread instead of creating two per day like people are doing at bitog.

-Dennis
I've been on BITOG since 2003 and I have NEVER seen this kind of craziness...even when green GC was the hot stuff
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:13 PM   #18
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when was n high school my automech. teacher said wolf head oil was the best on the market, any input on this, only seen this brand few places...
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Old 03-01-2010, 04:27 AM   #19
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:57 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrandall View Post
when was n high school my automech. teacher said wolf head oil was the best on the market, any input on this, only seen this brand few places...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1791001
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1494231
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Old 03-01-2010, 11:24 AM   #21
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is this stuff cheaper than Rotella T?
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Old 03-01-2010, 12:57 PM   #22
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It's now available at walmart in 5qt jugs. $28 vs $23 for PP Platinum.
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Old 03-02-2010, 01:44 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
I hate apple/oranges comparisons, but the first thing that popped into my mind was the problem the VW/Audi/Porsche owner's are having in DI cars running manufacturer spec synthetic and having huge deposit issues.

VW Eos with 22k miles (from vwvortex):
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r.../valve2pn3.gif

-Dennis
I'm pretty sure Pennzoil is referring to sludge deposits within areas of the engine normally bathed in oil, not carbon buildup (be it PCV or EGR based) within the intake tract. Is that what you meant by apples to oranges?

I'd bet the higher coking temperature of ester based oils is the reason they don't build up in the intake tract (see RLI comments above), and that their ability to resist sludging is basically unrelated.

Seems like Ultra would be a good choice for engines with known sludge problems like the Mitsu V6s, certain Toyotas, and the VW/Audi 1.8t, but not necessarily any better than the competition in something like a turbo Subaru which prefers a thicker (non energy conserving) oil.
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Old 03-02-2010, 09:49 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
I'm pretty sure Pennzoil is referring to sludge deposits within areas of the engine normally bathed in oil, not carbon buildup (be it PCV or EGR based) within the intake tract. Is that what you meant by apples to oranges?

I'd bet the higher coking temperature of ester based oils is the reason they don't build up in the intake tract (see RLI comments above), and that their ability to resist sludging is basically unrelated.

Seems like Ultra would be a good choice for engines with known sludge problems like the Mitsu V6s, certain Toyotas, and the VW/Audi 1.8t, but not necessarily any better than the competition in something like a turbo Subaru which prefers a thicker (non energy conserving) oil.
No, apples to oranges in regards to Subaru's vs. DI cars (although Subaru may go that way soon). I'm running an ester based oil now (Red Line). I may try PU (I love saying PU) if the Euro 5W-30 will be easy to find.

-Dennis
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Old 03-03-2010, 01:41 PM   #25
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Switched the school bus ('06 Chevy/Thomas-built 3500 chassis schoolbus with 6.0L Vortec V8) over to Pennzoil Ultra 5w-30 and a Bosch Distance Plus filter today. They are driving from Houston to San Antonio and back tomorrow, figured now was a good time....oil had been in there for 14 months but only a tick over 3K miles, tons of short trips = bad. Bus only has 6,373 miles on it too.

Once I get the oil leak fixed on my wife's Escape, I will consider switching over as well.
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