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Old 02-27-2010, 03:00 PM   #1
Coop1103
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Default Those Running E85 as Daily Driver

I have done a lot of research on E85 and just wanted to hear some of your thoughts on the reliability of it as a daily driver. Im currently pushing 310hp, 330tq on 93 octane. I have an E85 station a mile from my house. It seems like I have no reason not to get this fuel....but I wanted your thoughts please. A tune for it is $500 and I want to make sure im not making a waste of my money or damaging my motor.
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Old 02-27-2010, 04:20 PM   #2
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http://www.camtuning.com/forums/view...php?f=20&t=887

It was good for shaving off a full second off my 1/4 mile time. The only downside yet is that my gas mileage sucks horribly now.
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:19 PM   #3
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Yea^^^I heard 20% less gas mileage. Is it worth the extra .30cents per gallon less?
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:21 PM   #4
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Here premium is $2.90 for 93 - but E85 is $2.16 at Meijer. I'm sure it's about even when you look at it from the price per mile standpoint. I don't think anyone here is trying to hypermile their STI though. I plan on switching over so I can safely run more boost.
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:46 PM   #5
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id wanna do the same thing! With my 35r i need 2 bosch fuel pumps thats the only thing holding me back
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coop1103 View Post
Is it worth the extra .30cents per gallon less?
that sounds like a double negative.

its worth it for the power. if you dont have an AP get a Tactrix cable and have a custom tune done for 93 and E85. OUCH $500 tune?? find a new tuner, wow

if you do the math on my car, 25.5MPG times "15 gallons"=382.5 miles. 15 gallons times $2.90=$43.5

20% less=20.4MPG times "15 gallons"=306 miles. 15 gallons times $2.16=$32.4

you save $11.10 per fill up. to equal the 382.5 miles you'll need an extra 3.75 gallons of E85 which will cost you $8.10. you still save $3.00 per fill up. YEAH E85!!!!

Last edited by synolimit; 02-27-2010 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 02-27-2010, 08:48 PM   #7
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ya running it daily is ok cold mornings suck tho takes me a few trys to get it running but when warm its ok. but i dont have bad gas mileage like others
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Old 02-27-2010, 09:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06 wrx mike View Post
ya running it daily is ok cold mornings suck tho takes me a few trys to get it running but when warm its ok. but i dont have bad gas mileage like others
drive light foot?
i noticed the e85 guys tend to drive it much harder plus lead foot = really less mileage per tank

have your tuner (or if you've tuned it) change the startup on it.
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:08 AM   #9
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Reliability wise, there should be no difference in running e85 vs gas. Both can become contaminated. I learned my lesson buying gas at wally world. After that incident I only bought gas from a station where I knew what depot the tanker was filling from.

The cost savings is going to come up a wash. The fuel is cheaper, the mpg's are lower. It's not the savings you're after, it's the performance of race fuel w/out the cost.

Don't know what mods you have, so with some uncertainty I'll say fuel pump and larger injectors will be needed if you want to get all the power it has to offer.

lennybootzz Is the twin bosch setup in tank,do you have a link?

Cold morning starts really aren't bad.....if you have a tuner that knows e85. With that said...with temps 30-40 degrees my car is a bear to start, four or more tries, with temps of twenty or lower the car starts first try. If it's zero...first try every time. If the tuning is spot on you will have no problems, if, like me, your tuner isn't perfect you'll have problems as it seems getting the e85 mix to light off is much harder than gas.

06 wrx mike What kind of mpg's are you seeing? What are your a/f's while cruising?

I have heard e85 is harder on motor oil than gas. I've done two blackstone tests, neither showed anything to worry about due to e85.


IMO, this is the biggest, "thing", with e85...lower mpg's, small tank and scarcity of e85 stations mean you will need to carry extra fuel on long trips....can anyone say die in a fiery crash???

...and don't forget to read the e85 fact in the tuning section, yes it's longer than a steven speilberg but it's a better read. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803341
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:41 PM   #10
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well my mpg are from 16 to 20 mpg when i get on it its like i have to go fill up in the next two days. I have noticed that people that have diff injectors will start up better or worse than mine. i love running e85 like how the car feels but my car is far from stock so it does not feel like a stock subi. Have beatrush motor mounts and they feel solid so when it is hard to start its like the car is falling apart.
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:44 PM   #11
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Why the heck would anyone hypermile an STi? You don't get a high performance sports car for the mpgs LOL.
I can understand trying to get more HP and TQ from it, but if you want more mpgs, a different car would be in order.
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:44 PM   #12
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Less chance of blowing your motor due to detonation, thats for sure, so that puts it "more" reliable.....

while I may only get 11-14 mpg when having fun.... Its only $2.19 gallon...
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k mier View Post

Cold morning starts really aren't bad.....if you have a tuner that knows e85. With that said...with temps 30-40 degrees my car is a bear to start, four or more tries, with temps of twenty or lower the car starts first try. If it's zero...first try every time. If the tuning is spot on you will have no problems, if, like me, your tuner isn't perfect you'll have problems as it seems getting the e85 mix to light off is much harder than gas.
thats really odd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddevil View Post
Less chance of blowing your motor due to detonation, thats for sure, so that puts it "more" reliable.....

while I may only get 11-14 mpg when having fun.... Its only $2.19 gallon...
+12345 and is a really clean fuel
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Old 02-28-2010, 10:54 PM   #14
k mier
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
thats really odd.



+12345 and is a really clean fuel

Odd yes, one would think it should be the other way around. Makes me think the cold start for those temps needs some adjustment.


06 wrx mike 20mpg, lucky. With slowerthanmostofyou driving I'm lucky to average 17.
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:04 PM   #15
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I've heard of the E85 eventually eating through fuel lines and what not that aren't made for it does anybody know if this is true or just another myth floating around?
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:15 PM   #16
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[quote=juanmedina;29908662] thats really odd.

it is always a bear to get extreme cold start right as ethanol falls out of vapor under 34 degrees F. we have an e85 syclone that wants 4 cranks on a cold day (below 30) and spits liquid out the pipe. our high compression 2.0L wagon wants 5 or so, unless you spike the tank with a gallon or two of 87. that is with nearly maxed cold crank adjustment. block heater helped, slightly.

Quote:
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I've heard of the E85 eventually eating through fuel lines and what not that aren't made for it does anybody know if this is true or just another myth floating around?
false, but a grain of truth like anything. automakers will tell you it will ,but that is primarily because they have only pushed development of "flex-fuel" vehicles. i have seen a certain shop actually soak fuel lines, hoses, pumps/etc for extended periods in both e85 and e98. with no noticeable problems of corrosion. that said, the grain of truth is that ethanol absorbs water over time, the longer it sits, the more it absorbs. it isn't the ethanol that is the problem at that point, but the water.

although we have had multiple walbros go out when fed a diet of 100% e85...

+1 on oil issues, we have actually seen less contamination in the oil on the truck, haven't sent a test for the wagon yet...
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:04 PM   #17
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[quote=oldskoolWRX;29947497]
Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
thats really odd.

it is always a bear to get extreme cold start right as ethanol falls out of vapor under 34 degrees F. we have an e85 syclone that wants 4 cranks on a cold day (below 30) and spits liquid out the pipe. our high compression 2.0L wagon wants 5 or so, unless you spike the tank with a gallon or two of 87. that is with nearly maxed cold crank adjustment. block heater helped, slightly.



false, but a grain of truth like anything. automakers will tell you it will ,but that is primarily because they have only pushed development of "flex-fuel" vehicles. i have seen a certain shop actually soak fuel lines, hoses, pumps/etc for extended periods in both e85 and e98. with no noticeable problems of corrosion. that said, the grain of truth is that ethanol absorbs water over time, the longer it sits, the more it absorbs. it isn't the ethanol that is the problem at that point, but the water.

although we have had multiple walbros go out when fed a diet of 100% e85...

+1 on oil issues, we have actually seen less contamination in the oil on the truck, haven't sent a test for the wagon yet...

When it absorbs enough water and sits long enough it turns to frog snot.

The cold start issue...tells me my start maps are off since mine starts better the colder it gets.

IIRC, the fuel systems of most cars manufactured after the mid 80's is safe for ethanol blended fuels.

It WILL kill the fuel lines of a cub cadet lawn tractor though.
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:37 PM   #18
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Does anyone switch the maps often between the E85 map and the 93 octane map? Didnt know if you switched it often that it would mess with your engine?
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:09 PM   #19
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The problem with the cold starts is that the Subaru ECU was not engineered for E85 so it doesn't have proper correction tables. Aftermarket implementations of E85 are vastly inferior to OEM ones. Let's talk about the cold start issue for a second. Here is the cold start control strategy on a flex fuel GM vehicle.



First is the cranking target AFR, displayed in lambda. This map is for a full E85 blend, and then it is scaled based on how much ethanol is detected in the tank:



So the cranking fuel is adjusted based on ethanol blend. But there is one more correction:



This is another cranking fuel adjustment based on coolant temperature.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:22 PM   #20
Coop1103
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I guess a really important question i have is this...if i plan a trip I will obviously not want to run E85 for the risk of no stations. Can I simply reflash to my 93octane map before going. Then upon return flash back to E85 when ready to fill up again?
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:27 PM   #21
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you can do that but as you switch from one fuel to the other (normal E10 vs E85) there may be some variation in the tune because the two fuels are mixed together
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:32 PM   #22
Coop1103
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Right, obviously i would take my tank down to as empty as i can get it....still wouldnt help? Or am i better off buying a siphon...and draining it while at the gas station..lol
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:06 PM   #23
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Right, obviously i would take my tank down to as empty as i can get it....still wouldnt help? Or am i better off buying a siphon...and draining it while at the gas station..lol
You worry too much!

Just run the car without boosting too much and get it as empty as possible, fill it again with 2 gallons of gas or E85 run it to empty, and repeat that one more time. And then happy boosting .
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Old 03-10-2010, 02:02 AM   #24
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^^^you just lost me...
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Old 03-10-2010, 04:13 AM   #25
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Quote:
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Right, obviously i would take my tank down to as empty as i can get it....still wouldnt help? Or am i better off buying a siphon...and draining it while at the gas station..lol
No need to drain. I switch all the time, 93 for long trips if I'm worried about gas stations or want better gas mileage. I just run it as low as possible and switch. Usually try not to go crazy with boost on the first tank of E85, wait till the second to really hit it hard. As for switching back to 90 whatever the E85 that's left in the tank is just going to up the octane, no harm with that.
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