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Old 11-20-2012, 11:13 AM   #451
Leafy
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ASP Evos without SP aero have out rawed top SM cars before. So dont even add power, just add SM aero and are you trying to tell me that sm aero is worth less than a couple hundredths on a 60 second course? More like multiple tenths.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:54 PM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude

The problem is no one has really done a "to the limit" SM build on an STi. Cams and bigger turbo's tend to move the power band to places that aren't as friendly for autox. If you do it right, then yes, you'll be faster than ASP. The real problem is the ASP guys have had a lot of time to develop their cars and they don't have any option to change out other parts. When you have a set part to begin with, it makes the equation a lot easier to deal with.

This is more or less how I look at it, with a sprinkling of my thoughts above. ASP is very fast nationally, and SM has fallen for a few years so the 2013 PAX is just a reflection of that. At the local level I think it'll be hilarious to try and explain how the regular ASP guys should be as quick as SM cars
I usually do, its not too hard.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:22 PM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04trailsti View Post
I usually do, its not too hard.
That's because there aren't any real SM cars locally
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:04 PM   #454
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Evo Jo. yeah I cant even beat BSP cars
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:59 PM   #455
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Originally Posted by 04trailsti View Post
Evo Jo. yeah I cant even beat BSP cars
He's getting there IMO. Still needs a few more years of prep. Not arguing that he's quick, I just don't think he'd place well on a larger scale yet.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:15 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04trailsti
I cant even beat BSP cars
At least you have a great benchmark in the Z.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:18 PM   #457
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but I felt the way my car was, with the exception of 285's I could win a tour.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:55 AM   #458
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I know H braces are not legal, but what about the lca braces that don't pick up the subframe (the ones with 2 attach points)? Those would be legal since there is no triangulation correct?

http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_..._number=KSB716 this, to be exact.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:33 PM   #459
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Not legal as it's still a lateral link across the car. The only cross link that is allowed is between strut towers.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:35 PM   #460
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You could argue that any subframe bracing is free under the new rule that any subframe may be used as long as its the same weight or heavier than the original.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:41 PM   #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
You could argue that any subframe bracing is free under the new rule that any subframe may be used as long as its the same weight or heavier than the original.
Yes, but only if the bracing were _part_ of the subframe. You would need to premanently weld or fabricate it into the subframe. If it's bolted on...then it's not part of the subframe.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:59 PM   #462
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I would say that bolting makes it part of the sub frame since I've sure there are sub frames that are multiple pieces.

And regardless, T37 that brace is legal. SP rules let you connect suspension pickups together across the chassis.
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:13 PM   #463
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No they don't unless you are talking about an upper strut bar.

The rule is this:

Quote:
Lower suspension braces must be attached to the lower suspen- sion pickup point locations on the chassis within two inches (2”, 50.8 mm) in any direction of the actual suspension attachment to the chassis.
That looks like more than 2" to me.
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:50 PM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwx View Post
No they don't unless you are talking about an upper strut bar.

The rule is this:



That looks like more than 2" to me.
Depending on the interpretation it could be considered zero inches. Not that it matters much, but I think the argument could be made that the brace is just ballast and it has no performance impact.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:32 PM   #465
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We all know it has no performance impact, but the point is, it's illegal. No one will protest at a local level, or even a national level unless you beat someone. But that doesn't matter as it's not legal for the class.

When you're being raw timed by 1989 ST Civics with strut braces only and under body brace is not going to make you faster.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:22 AM   #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Depending on the interpretation it could be considered zero inches. Not that it matters much, but I think the argument could be made that the brace is just ballast and it has no performance impact.
That would be a "tortured" interpretation.

Like others have said, it's just not legal, whether it provides performance benefit or not.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:56 AM   #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
Not legal as it's still a lateral link across the car. The only cross link that is allowed is between strut towers.
that is not true. Lower suspension braces are allowed. It's tough to tell from the pic on the website but it looks like that brace connects close enough to the inboard forward control arm mounting point to be legal.
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:24 PM   #468
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Default Help with setup

Geez... having a 2.0L WRX in SM is pretty difficult to be competitive... I did pretty well I think at the last event I was at but still I see some flaws with my setup.

I am having the most trouble with bogging down coming out of hairpin turns due to waiting for boost to build. Is there anything else I can do do help with the low end on a VF43 setup 2.0L WRX?

What driving techniques can I try next time? I ended up being able to get into 1st in one hairpin turn during my last run and it shaved .5sec off my time giving me the best for the day. Anyone else go to 1st on a 5speed for Auto-X?

I have thought about going back to the stock turbo and running ESP (you can alter boost levels in that class right?) Not sure if I would want to do that or not... If I can spend the same amount of money trying to pull more low end out of my car as I could to switch back to ESP I think it would be worth it to try and get more low end.

I never really plan to go far with Auto-X on a national level or anything but really just want a setup that I can be competitive with in either division... Any suggestions?

Clay
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:54 PM   #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymra View Post
Geez... having a 2.0L WRX in SM is pretty difficult to be competitive... I did pretty well I think at the last event I was at but still I see some flaws with my setup.

I am having the most trouble with bogging down coming out of hairpin turns due to waiting for boost to build. Is there anything else I can do do help with the low end on a VF43 setup 2.0L WRX?

What driving techniques can I try next time? I ended up being able to get into 1st in one hairpin turn during my last run and it shaved .5sec off my time giving me the best for the day. Anyone else go to 1st on a 5speed for Auto-X?

I have thought about going back to the stock turbo and running ESP (you can alter boost levels in that class right?) Not sure if I would want to do that or not... If I can spend the same amount of money trying to pull more low end out of my car as I could to switch back to ESP I think it would be worth it to try and get more low end.

I never really plan to go far with Auto-X on a national level or anything but really just want a setup that I can be competitive with in either division... Any suggestions?

Clay
Do you have a catless up-pipe/downpipe? That'd help spool a bit. EWG, tuning, all that jazz would also help. However, with the stock 5 speed gearing and a bigger turbo on the 2.0 you're just not going to get very good "out of the hole" type speed. The course this past weekend wasn't very kind to turbo cars anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it to much.

If you want to roll SM and be more competitive it'll be a bit more $$ vs doing the stock turbo and running ESP. You are correct about boost in ESP as well, you can run more of it.

Otherwise, suspension changes and tire changes can help a LOT. When you have the car setup to corner at 30 mph instead of 20 mph then you don't need to worry as much about the low end
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:12 PM   #470
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I do go into first if it's called for with my 5spd (04 WRX, so I feel your 2.0L pain), usually a double-clutch or rev match maneuver is necessary, but if you're crafty enough you can get it done under braking (heel-toe)...I'm only 50% crafty.

Have you done any weight reduction? Looked into TGV deletes? header/pnp'd manifolds? pnp the VF? EWG?

I've been going through the process of deciding on ESP vs SM for next year...I misclassed myself as SM earlier this year when I should have actually been ESP (I was consistently 2-ish seconds behind the other regularly attending SM car locally, except for the last event where I miraculously edged him out thanks to some brisk weather). In my research, it sounds like to be competitive in ESP you would have to run higher boost levels out of the TD04 and throw reliability out the window. There are guys replacing them multiple times per season. That's too much headache for me. I've all but decided on the 16G-XTR, PW topmount, perrin big-tube up-pipe, and pnp'd manifolds. Then it's a matter of shaving as much weight as legally possible and dialing in the suspension and tire pressures. Easier said than done...

BUT I'm also not looking to be nationally competitive. Just locally and maybe throw in a couple of regional events to see just how bad I really am.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:31 PM   #471
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Yeah, the 2.0L is pretty boggy...no doubt. E85 with TGV deletes would help.

That or you can swap in a 2.5...

Honestly the best idea if you want to lower your time is to swap back to the mini. Your drags in the straights might not be as boss...but Ill take a nice surge out of corners over pure top end for AutoX. Car's with far less power teach us that...

Last edited by polyol; 12-04-2012 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:22 PM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
Do you have a catless up-pipe/downpipe? That'd help spool a bit. EWG, tuning, all that jazz would also help. However, with the stock 5 speed gearing and a bigger turbo on the 2.0 you're just not going to get very good "out of the hole" type speed. The course this past weekend wasn't very kind to turbo cars anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it to much.

If you want to roll SM and be more competitive it'll be a bit more $$ vs doing the stock turbo and running ESP. You are correct about boost in ESP as well, you can run more of it.

Otherwise, suspension changes and tire changes can help a LOT. When you have the car setup to corner at 30 mph instead of 20 mph then you don't need to worry as much about the low end
Thanks for the input Tim. Good to hear I was not the only turbo car struggling out of those turns this weekend.

I have the catless up and down pipes. And a protune for my VF43. Its slow early and hits pretty hard up top. I might be able to get a tune to help the low end a bit more since I stopped the tuner after he tried +1 timing. We hit 284 WHP and I was happy- I was not thinking about throttle response at that time...

I would love to run rcomp tires one day but feel that my prodrive springs would be too soft. Am I wrong? My current tires are pretty nice but not top of the line. They are Eagle F1 asyms. 245/40/17. Next tires I may go with are RS3's in the same size or maybe a smaller 235/40/17 to help with gearing a bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by T-37 View Post
I do go into first if it's called for with my 5spd (04 WRX, so I feel your 2.0L pain), usually a double-clutch or rev match maneuver is necessary, but if you're crafty enough you can get it done under braking (heel-toe)...I'm only 50% crafty.

Have you done any weight reduction? Looked into TGV deletes? header/pnp'd manifolds? pnp the VF? EWG?

I've been going through the process of deciding on ESP vs SM for next year...I misclassed myself as SM earlier this year when I should have actually been ESP (I was consistently 2-ish seconds behind the other regularly attending SM car locally, except for the last event where I miraculously edged him out thanks to some brisk weather). In my research, it sounds like to be competitive in ESP you would have to run higher boost levels out of the TD04 and throw reliability out the window. There are guys replacing them multiple times per season. That's too much headache for me. I've all but decided on the 16G-XTR, PW topmount, perrin big-tube up-pipe, and pnp'd manifolds. Then it's a matter of shaving as much weight as legally possible and dialing in the suspension and tire pressures. Easier said than done...

BUT I'm also not looking to be nationally competitive. Just locally and maybe throw in a couple of regional events to see just how bad I really am.
I was able to heel toe under braking this past weekend- with a grind sometimes...

Right when I switched to the transmission cocktail I could go in at 25mph with no grinds...

That was 20K miles ago so maybe a refresh would help...

How much gain would one expect to see with E85, PnP manifold, and TGV deletes?

What are some ideas to shave weight out of the car besides removing the back seat?
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:31 PM   #473
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To give some background here is my current list of work done to the car. Thanks for any input on easy things I could do to improve the low end performance of my car/ exit speed out of turns.

-COBB accessport v2 (running protune from Epic Motorsports)
-Helix catless DP (3 inch)
-Helix catless up-pipe
-JNA performance catback (3 inch)
-Mishimoto aluminum radiator
-Cobb SF Intake
-STI TMIC
-COBB turbo heat shield
-Samco Intercooler hose
-Perrin turbo inlet hose
-One step colder spark plugs
-VF43 turbo
-Warlboro 255
-STI 560cc injectors
-Protune 284/274 mustang dyno

Suspension bits:
-Tockico D-Specs
-Prodrive Blue springs (pretty sure they are 175lb/inch F&R)
-JDM V7 Tophats F&R
-Whiteline steering rack bushings
-17X8 OZ Ultraleggeras
-245/40/17 Goodyear Eagle F1 Asyms
-Kartboy short shifter
-TIC shifter bushings
-22mm rear swaybar set to full stiff(has 3 adjustments so 23mm?)
24mm front swaybar set to full stiff(has 2 adjustments so 25mm?)
-Kartboy rear endlinks
-05WRX swaybar mounts (with whiteline bushings)

I currently am running 5.75 TFFS on the front and 6.25 TFFS on the rear of my Dspec shocks. I wouldn't mind switching over to RCE yellows or blacks. Just not sure which way I want to go yet...

I ran 35PSI in my tires at this past event and kept an eye to keep them between 35 and 36 PSI during my runs. Is that a good pressure for a full weight WRX on 245/40/17? I don't think they were rolling over much.

Pretty sure my alignment is -1 front and -.5 rear.
Any suggestions for a good alignment that is still daily driver friendly- or would it be best to stay the same?

Thanks for any help.

Clay
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:10 PM   #474
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try to ditch 200 lbs from the car, stiffer springs, and some hoosiers, that will increase your corner entrance and exit.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:19 PM   #475
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I ran an 03 wrx in SM.

-2.2f -1.8 R if memory serves. No toe.
710's or A6's will be the easiet way to shave time
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