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Old 02-28-2010, 11:59 PM   #26
BOY
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The Subaru Legacy has been using the EJ25 for four generations now....
good point! sadly, despite the introduction of active valve lift, and DOHC/SOHC heads its essentially unchanged in performance or economy
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Old 03-01-2010, 06:22 AM   #27
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Mmmmm, but we have also come to expect more out of our cars. 20 years ago the standard was to have your bread and butter 4 cylinder sedan hit 60 MPH in 9 to 10 seconds. Today we balk at the sedans that do it in more than 8 seconds. I can't believe the Impreza is only offered with the 2.5L. I like the option of the 170 model, however I think a 150 HP 2.2L geared toward efficiency would do well in today's market. And Im not sure why it was ever taken away from the Impreza.
I'd say cost is the issue. Why develop a new 2.2L for the US market when it would probably be a dog, and likely unsaleable, in the Legacy/Outback/Forester? Since it would likely be saddled w/ a 4 speed automatic, it probably wouldn't achieve too much of an improvement in fuel economy either. I'd say it could be done, just not cheap enough where people wouldn't pay the slight premium to jump up to the ej25 that makes more power and sees just a bit less fuel economy.
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Old 03-01-2010, 07:22 AM   #28
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I have a similar graph showing the fuel efficiency vs weight for vehicles in 1993 separating domestic and foreign vehicles. There is no statistical difference which is somewhat interesting. The foreign vehicles do have a slightly higher intercept, but like I said it isn't statistically significant. Funnily enough the reverse holds true in the 70s. Anyway what it shows is that things are more similar than a lot of people want to admit.


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Old 03-01-2010, 07:53 AM   #29
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And now we have cars like the Camry and Accord with 270 HP V6 options. Ok I understand the appeal of the V6, but these aren't supposed to be sports cars and I don't understand the need for that kind of power. However, the market has taken us there. No automaker is going to soley go backwards and sacrafice the competitive advantage. Will we have a 300 HP Camry in the next 5 years? God, I hope not.
What really baffles me is that V6 Camry and Accord drivers always drive slower than those that have I4 models.
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:15 AM   #30
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I have a similar graph showing the fuel efficiency vs weight for vehicles in 1993 separating domestic and foreign vehicles. There is no statistical difference which is somewhat interesting. The foreign vehicles do have a slightly higher intercept, but like I said it isn't statistically significant. Funnily enough the reverse holds true in the 70s. Anyway what it shows is that things are more similar than a lot of people want to admit.
Cool. Plot the same data for 2004, when the Prius came out, and you'll have a point very much not on the curve: 2950ish lbs, 46 mpg combined...
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Old 03-01-2010, 08:36 AM   #31
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What really baffles me is that V6 Camry and Accord drivers always drive slower than those that have I4 models.
They're saving gas!

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Old 03-01-2010, 09:00 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
I'd say cost is the issue. Why develop a new 2.2L for the US market when it would probably be a dog, and likely unsaleable, in the Legacy/Outback/Forester? Since it would likely be saddled w/ a 4 speed automatic, it probably wouldn't achieve too much of an improvement in fuel economy either. I'd say it could be done, just not cheap enough where people wouldn't pay the slight premium to jump up to the ej25 that makes more power and sees just a bit less fuel economy.
Why develop a new 2.2L when Subaru has the EJ22. Sure its been out of production for a while, but it was efficient and reliable. More so than the EJ20 from what I've read. And why would Subaru use a 4 speed when they a CVT for just this sort of thing.

I think we are going to see smaller displacement 4 cylinders in the near future. The new Sonata is a fine example. It has a 200 HP DI 2.4L. The base Sonata doesn't need that much. Now if it had a smaller engine with DI it could produce say 160 HP and be a fine base engine. Not that I think Hyundai will do that any time soon. I just thinking that this is where the market is moving in the future.


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What really baffles me is that V6 Camry and Accord drivers always drive slower than those that have I4 models.
Perhaps we could just trick these people into thinking that their getting a V6. It wouldn't be hard. People ask me about my V6 Subaru Legacy all of the time. ...that's right, V6.
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Old 03-01-2010, 12:30 PM   #33
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I stopped reading half way down, so this might already have been mentioned, but first the scale is not the same between the different charts and is misleading when comparing the amount of change over time. In addition, there should also be a bar for HP which I'm sure has increased as well.

The tread should show not only have cars gotten heavier (due to safety regulations, additional features, etc...), increased HP, but continued to improve upon fuel economy which is saying a lot for engine development. Do this same graph 5 years from now and the change should be even more dramatic once Direct Injection, better transmissions, hybrid/electric systems become more widely available.
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Old 03-01-2010, 01:16 PM   #34
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Will we have a 300 HP Camry in the next 5 years? God, I hope not.
...unless they magically create a RWD version
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:23 PM   #35
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They're saving gas!

They're getting in my way is more like it.
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Old 03-01-2010, 03:45 PM   #36
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I stopped reading half way down, so this might already have been mentioned, but first the scale is not the same between the different charts and is misleading when comparing the amount of change over time. In addition, there should also be a bar for HP which I'm sure has increased as well.
"There should be"? If you think so you're welcome to make your own damn charts . See post #16, too, and I think you should read the whole thread before commenting.

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Old 03-01-2010, 05:16 PM   #37
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...unless they magically create a RWD version
Well Toyota is affiliated with Subaru. An AWD Camry could happen, but I seriously doubt it. Camry is no.1 without AWD.

However, there is a 323 HP Toyota Aurion, which is also only FWD and the supercharged V6 only gets a 6AT. Its the most powerful front driver in the world today apparently.
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