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Old 10-27-2011, 05:58 PM   #1501
maxpowr
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Old 10-27-2011, 05:59 PM   #1502
karlknaupp
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My xmas list includes getting my garage back.. put wheels on and park on side of garage?..
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:06 PM   #1503
maxpowr
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thank goodness its not even close to xmas...if you want it out of there just say so, i'll get it towed out. i didnt think it would take this long, but i guess i should have know better.

note to self...rebuilding engines doesn't take two weeks.
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:14 PM   #1504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpowr View Post
the i beam is like 400$ more than the h beam, so i may see some more delays due to this.

i always hold your advice in high regard ron.
Thats flattering....but im speaking purely from an engineering design pov. Someone like JR, P&L, EQ Tuning, Cobb, etc etc. that gets to see the failures everyday of what works and what doesnt could give you much better real world answers. I dont even know what rods are in my own car

Or you could just go look at see what someone like Jr puts in their personal car......you always see shops and tuners bragging that they did this and that on a stock motor.....and you look and see he's running 1000hp pauter rods in his personal vehicle.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
New motor

Manley Highcompression
Pauter Rods
ACLs
GSC s2
Manley Single Springs
HeadGames valve job and bowl blend

Still on the 3582
Skimping on something to save $400 just isnt a good idea in the long run. If you gotta pull the heads again a gasket kit is gonna cost you $300....plus your personal labor and down time without the car.
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:25 PM   #1505
kellygnsd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpowr View Post
went by d&f today...dropt off a stock 2.0 head for flow testing. my v5 heads and karls ported heads will be in this flow test. dave thinks he can get a usdm head to flow as good if not better than a stock jdm big port head head. he also remarked that the subaru heads are way more efficient than ls1 heads.









flow bench prep





some more progress...(not finished)



turns out setting up a build with off the shelf parts is not "good enough."

i will have more specific numbers when this is complete but so far on the rod bearings, the ACL HX is too loose in our eyes.

our goal on this build is as close to oem spec as possible...while producing 450whp.
oem spec is really kinda vast though...

That's been proven to be true already Jake, look in the cylinder head flow database. Any well ported USDM head can flow more than the biggest of the stock big port JDM heads. Unfortunately everyone who gets their heads ported doesn't get well ported heads. My first set off ported heads that I bought used they blew major ass. My current DPR heads are head and shoulders above the first set.
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:29 PM   #1506
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I like how their tq plates say LS and Subaru

its fascinating that it just lines up though......
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:34 PM   #1507
maxpowr
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well i plan on opening my v5's further...i think we are in good hands with dave from d&f.

karl and i both had our heads done at fonse performance originally and lets just say they werent done right.

like i had a standard valve mixed in with my plus ones...and karls valve job barely sealed...twice...

junior told me he liked the pauter rod already.

but in my research its really so much speculation with I beam vs. H beam.

i intended on keeping this build civilized. maybe i will just keep the power down to 500chp. 400whp is still pretty awesome.

i am a lil scarred to go too big anyway because i need this engine to last a bit. subaru withdraw is painful.

truth is by the time i can afford a 35r this car may be long sold!

im thinkin it may be time to buy a 2007 sti....while mileage can still be found low and the pricing is down considerably.

i'm gonna put 200$ a week away for a 2015sti...as soon as i get a job!

Last edited by maxpowr; 10-27-2011 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:39 PM   #1508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
I like how their tq plates say LS and Subaru

its fascinating that it just lines up though......
same size sleeve...minus 4 cylinders. i found that interesting as well.

d&f is basically an ls1 v8 type shop. i promised them if they do good work at a good price i could provide them with a flow of subaru business.

they are reasonable knowledgeable doods with clearances and flow as a top priority. trouble is we are experimenting with my build first!

i'll take one for the team...i hope the work meets my expectations. i think it will, but i have been let down before.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:23 PM   #1509
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and then i read stuff like this...

"An H-beam rod is best suited for forced induction motors where there is a compressive load on the rod. An I beam rod is usually used for N/A motors."

and this...

"H-beam are better in that they spread the load over the entire bearing area."

and then....conflicting info...

an H beam design however does require more material to build vs. an I beam design there fore H beam weights of comparable rods are usually heavier than I beam designs.........the I beam is also a stronger design by way of compression and deflection......the h beam is a cheaper easier rod to manufactuer and is quite strong for the design/price factor that it has.......

most every high rpm high horsepower motor you will see will be running some type of parabolic I beam rod such as the Oliver, Crower, Lentz Billets........when i built my shortblock this was one of the main reasons I went with an Oliver Parabolic I beam design........the strength vs. weight ratio.......another issue with H Beams is the small end of the rod.....i remember a while back seeing a FEA analysis from Oliver on H-Beams vs. I beams......it showed where the small end design on the H-beam has a very high compression stress point localized to a small area..........the I beam has a much more spread out load point down at the end of the rod......

again this is what i've seen and learned more from an engineering stand point versus a discussion and opinion stand point........there is much more to connecting rods that i wont get into to confuse this thread however..........from an engineering stand point an H Beam design will always requrie more material than an I beam design........

the parabolic oiling locations def got my attention, but havent located a parabolic subaru rod yet.

Last edited by maxpowr; 10-27-2011 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:25 PM   #1510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlknaupp View Post
My xmas list includes getting my garage back.. put wheels on and park on side of garage?..
your garage needs to be open soon so I can start autoshow prep for my car and finish up my fuel system

but dont worry I will only be a few days in the garage, I will own everything I need for install before the car gets dropped off and know exactly whats gotta get done. I will have a game plan and it will get excecuted in a timely fashion in order to get the other **** done in time for roll in

my list is pretty basic
-drop in fuel pump hanger
-drill surge tank into trunk
-run -an line from trunk to engine bay
-mount 044's & connect -an lines to already assembled -an fittings
-move battery to my trunk
-move my fpr to where the battery sits and eliminate 3/4's of ss line in my engine bay
-drive the car out of karl's garage in under 1 week

I would enjoy your help jake, its pretty basic stuff that needs to get done but having a few extra hands to help and brains to bouce ideas off would be greatly appreciated.

-Gary
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:32 PM   #1511
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I decided to get this rods for my build:http://www.briancrower.com/view.php?pn=BC6607

I should have everything I need in about two week, I wish there was a machine shop like that one around here. Having someone do the machining around here has me worried .
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:44 PM   #1512
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damn gary...i can read between the lines!

juan, if you wanna wait a lil bit i'll let you know how d&f turns out. shipping up to jersey wouldnt be that big a deal.

i'll also have a pricing structure as soon as my stuff is done.


then theres these...

http://www.cimotorsports.net/motor-s...ds-subaru.html

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/oliverrods-subaru.html
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:49 PM   #1513
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They look good but a little pricey, I like the weight. People used to use a lot of oliver stuff back in day.

And there is these:
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/prod...cat=255&page=1



**** it I am going with the BCs they are rated at 1000hp thats plenty for me, too many choices
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:54 PM   #1514
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Yeah man let me know. Pricing around here is cheap for assembly of a short block 450 bucks, for honing 100, for a valve job, flow testing heads and 3-angle 200 bucks.

The first motor that will be build down here will be done Friday, I will be installing next week. I hope it turns out well
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:01 PM   #1515
maxpowr
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justice racing uses the h beams in their street car block.

http://www.justiceracingengines.com/index.php?id=33

but then goes to turbo tuffs for track and extreme duty.

the extreme is also sleeved.

i guess it comes down to its a gamble being close to the edge. for 400$ more i have headroom. i thought i had enough headroom with the h beams, but maybe i was wrong.

i dont see anyone really arguing that H beams are good enough. seems mostly you guys think that i am taking an unnecessary risk. but there are how many thousands of h beam rods running without an issue?

im gonna contact dave @ rallispec and rich @ precision for some feedback.
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:18 PM   #1516
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:24 PM   #1517
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Why take anyones word on nasioc? Call manley.

They are going to tell you that their I beam is stronger. The only reason people say to get H beams is cost.

And no one ever mentions knock when referring to rod hp ratings. screw the hp rating.....you want the strongest damn thing in there that you can afford.

And all the stuff you're reading about different rods n strength and peoples opinions is exactly why i just got frustrated and stopped even trying to research it.

You can take any part on the car and search for reviews and you'll find 50 people who say its the greatest thing since astroglide and 50 others that hate it.
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Old 10-27-2011, 08:55 PM   #1518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
Why take anyones word on nasioc? Call manley.

They are going to tell you that their I beam is stronger. The only reason people say to get H beams is cost.

And no one ever mentions knock when referring to rod hp ratings. screw the hp rating.....you want the strongest damn thing in there that you can afford.

And all the stuff you're reading about different rods n strength and peoples opinions is exactly why i just got frustrated and stopped even trying to research it.

You can take any part on the car and search for reviews and you'll find 50 people who say its the greatest thing since astroglide and 50 others that hate it.
x2

This subject has been beat to death.

Eagle, Manley, Scat, K1, and who ever elses H beam rods are not as strong as any I beam or X beam rod.

Theres a reason why I beam rods are $700-900 and H beams are $300-400

You really cant go wrong with Pauter, crower, carrillo, or Manley
in terms of I beams ***********
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:18 PM   #1519
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the debate is not what rod is stronger. i agree that has been beaten on with plenty of bad info floating around.

its a question of how close to the edge will "hakt" be with my build with the 30r and e85.

i did call manley. they told me that the h beam was rated at 600hp. i assumed chp. i set my goal on 525chp for the 30r or 450whp. the 30r is maxed at 525chp, no?

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob..._700382_12.htm

i think i'm gonna go against what is probably good advice. keep the car turned down, but driveable. its not like this is gonna be the last motor i build.

plus this from manley...


NOTE: You will see that we list "horsepower ratings" for each different series/application of Manley connecting
rods. However, it is very important to understand that these "ratings" are somewhat subjective. The critical factors
that significantly influence the fatigue life of connecting rods (and the horsepower rating) are RPM, stroke and
piston weight.

In certain cases, our horsepower ratings may be conservative....
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:22 PM   #1520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphdog View Post
I have Manely pistons and H beams right now making 450whp on a 35r. I have over 10,000 miles on it right now with no problems but I'm about to sleeve it and push over 30psi so I figured for a little more cash why not have the piece of mind with the I beams.
theres this one...
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:55 PM   #1521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpowr View Post
theres this one...
I wouldn't worry man, your last motor blew because you guys got greedy.

Crystal broke the h-beam because he is running a HTA86 on E85 thats over 600 crank hp easy. RPM, det, torque kill rods.
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Old 10-27-2011, 10:58 PM   #1522
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i have to think the h beams when assembled properly and tuned professionally will be good for 450wheel.
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Old 10-27-2011, 11:20 PM   #1523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpowr View Post
i have to think the h beams when assembled properly and tuned professionally will be good for 450wheel.
450whp should be around 520 crank hp, even if they are rated at 600hp they should have some safety factor to play with
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Old 10-28-2011, 12:39 AM   #1524
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Old 10-28-2011, 09:05 PM   #1525
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Good that can you can read behind the lines cause im going to need some help when my car goes back under the knife again this winter

I plan on running e85 on my h-beams, somewhere around 27-29psi where I am hoping to put down right around 500~whp on the mustang at EFI.

On pump ill probably go back to like 23psi and be right around 414/421 (where chris tuned me before) but with the ported heads on the new motor i should make boost even quicker!

-Gary
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