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Old 07-12-2010, 06:06 PM   #176
MRF582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
Hey guys.. I got some hard data for you
http://eqtuning.com/images/dynos/com...Comparison.png

The Blue curve is an 02 WRX with an EQ Stage 1 shortblock, EQ Stage 2 heads (w/o CNC) using a thicker head gasket to bring down the compression ratio. Its running a VF43, STI TMIC, Catless TBE, DW740cc injectors, and MBC.

The Red curve is an 04 WRX with EQ Stage 1 shortblock, EQ Stage 2 heads w/ CNC work using a factory STI head gasket. This car is also running a VF43 with STI TMIC, Catless TBE, 07 STI Injectors, and MBC.

I think this is actually a very fair comparison as the setups are very similar and both have our built engine. This really shows the big mid range gains that these CNC heads provide.

Thanks
-- Ed
All I see here is an engine with tighter quench height that makes more power than an engine with horrid quench height. Eureka!

You are really good at sticking your head in the sand to ignore other variables that might be disagreeing with your theory huh? But hey, that's marketing. And this is NASIOC. Build it and they will come, no matter how unscientific your marketing/testing may be.
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Old 07-12-2010, 10:41 PM   #177
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I noticed a lot of people hate for lack of a better reason other than to be seen. So with that being said, I'm running a hybrid setup w/p&p heads I would like to use Kelford 272/272 cams and springs and valves to support them along with the cnc. Also I would like to p&p again how much would this be? I plan on (trying) to rebuild my own shortblock with forged pistons and rods.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:00 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
All I see here is an engine with tighter quench height that makes more power than an engine with horrid quench height. Eureka!

You are really good at sticking your head in the sand to ignore other variables that might be disagreeing with your theory huh? But hey, that's marketing. And this is NASIOC. Build it and they will come, no matter how unscientific your marketing/testing may be.
You are making yourself look like more and more of an idiot with every post, so congratulations on that.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to follow every one of my threads as I replied to this same statement already in another thread. Does this make you feel smart? Because you come off as ignorant and closed minded.

For reference, here are my replies to this e-thug in another thread:



Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
If the compression ratio is too high for your fuel (91 octane) and you want to lower it while maintaining stock quench height, just get a custom set of pistons that do just that. I theorize it will net the results you want.

same quench + higher compression = worse on lower octane fuel (stock hybrid)
same compression + worse quench = worse on lower octane fuel (hybrid with thicker headgasket)
same compression + same quench = win? on lower octane fuel (custom pistons...)

The problem I have with the OP is that he is neglecting to acknowledge the fact that he's changing more than one variable while claiming that 'his' variable change is what helped. That is simply not backed up. If people can't see this logic... then it's just about right for NASIOC.

crashtke and Phil from Element Tuning have said that stock headgaskets + stock heads are just fine. Sure, they're talking about 93 octane and the OP is saying that on 91 octane things get worse. Well, no duh! Higher compression + lower octane generally nets a lower peak power output...

Is this crystal clear for only me? Say it ain't so.
Easy there buddy . I'm not trying to convince anyone or "prove" anything with this data as its not a completely controlled test. I was simply asked for some data and I provided what I could.

There's no reason to theorize on this as I have built and tuned cars with custom pistons as well to bring the CR down and the results were still not as good. If a set of custom pistons solved the issue, I sure as hell would not have gone through the trouble of making this service available. We're not a machine shop, so we don't make much money on this actual service when its said and done. I offer this up to the community because it is the best option I have found after exhausting all other available options.

For what its worth, here is an 04 WRX hybrid with custom pistons that brought the CR down to about 8.3:1. This car is running a VF34 and similar supporting mods to the previous two:



This particular car tuned out a bit better than a thicker head gasket car, but still suffered from the same lack of consistency when it came to ignition advance especially in the mid range. You could get away with some decent advance for one or two glory pulls, but under real use, it would knock and retard timing. This car ended up at 8* in the mid range up to 23* by redline and was running about 10.6:1. Granted these are all different cars, but the trend is quite clear.

Now try to keep an open mind and be a little more respectful of people who do actual R&D rather than just theorizing. It may come as a big surprise to you, but there are people as smart or even smarter than you out there who have already thought of the points you're bring up .

Thanks
-- Ed
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:01 PM   #179
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And some more....


Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
And did these 'custom' pistons royally screw up the quench/squish?
No it was a good piston design overall. I've also tune cars with different piston designs with almost identical results. For the sake of argument, if you believe that the quench height is to blame for this, please explain how it would make the engine more knock prone and much less consistent with increased heat. It coldnt possibly be the sharp edges protruding into the chamber building up heat and causing knock could it?

Quote:
This made me laugh. I guess there some out there who will actually believe that you are doing this primarily to 'help the community'. 'We aren't doing this for the money'.
I'm definately in business to ultimately make money. That's really not the point. The point is that this particular service is not super lucrative for us because it is work that is entirely sub contracted to our machine shop. We certainly take a cut for our time, but it ends up being less than what we would make selling a part of the same price. This service won't make or break my business. It's simply a good option for a lot of people and I'm happy making a little bit on it while bringing the business to our machine shop and bringing the service to our community. If you can't understand this, you must believe that everyone out there is out to get you. You're probably wearing a well crafted foil hat right now as well .

Thanks for the entertainment
-- Ed
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:03 PM   #180
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I haven't seen a response from him on this so far, so I'm sure he's busy googling to try to find some other stupid comment to make. The best part is that he's making fun of NASIOC while he is in fact the quintessential e-thug that NASIOC has been suffering from for many years.

-- Ed
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:26 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx03.4wz View Post
I noticed a lot of people hate for lack of a better reason other than to be seen. So with that being said, I'm running a hybrid setup w/p&p heads I would like to use Kelford 272/272 cams and springs and valves to support them along with the cnc. Also I would like to p&p again how much would this be? I plan on (trying) to rebuild my own shortblock with forged pistons and rods.
It depends on what kind of P&P you want to do. We can do a bowl blend for $250 and that's what I recommend for most people as it gets you almost all of the gains of a full P&P. If you're replacing the valves, you'll also need a valve job that will be $500.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Thanks
-- Ed
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:32 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
...For the sake of argument, if you believe that the quench height is to blame for this, please explain how it would make the engine more knock prone and much less consistent with increased heat. It coldnt possibly be the sharp edges protruding into the chamber building up heat and causing knock could it?...
The same sharp edges that are easily removed with some hand-sanding? I did that to my ej205 heads when I had them paired to an ej257. No issues with timing inconsistency like you mentioned. Weird... Engine made 300+whp according to a popular road dyno program at RomRaider.com. Pull after pull after pull after... And that was on 1 bar of FPGreen boost. 93 octane. Minimal timing. I think I didn't run more than 17 degrees at 7000rpm.

I bet my engine was just an outlier...
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:15 PM   #183
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Thanks for the graphs but \/


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
Looks pretty nice, could you take a pic of just one so it would be closer to see how smooth and even the chamber is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by frayz View Post
+1 would be cool to compare to mine
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
closer pix plz, thnx :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
I kind of wanted to see the cut surface in better detail, taking a pic of one chamber pretty close would do the trick. I want to see how well they polish the surface.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
The surface is hand polished after the machining to clean them up. The result is a nice smooth finish. I'll try to get some close-ups for you.

-- Ed
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:40 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRF582 View Post
The same sharp edges that are easily removed with some hand-sanding? I did that to my ej205 heads when I had them paired to an ej257. No issues with timing inconsistency like you mentioned. Weird... Engine made 300+whp according to a popular road dyno program at RomRaider.com. Pull after pull after pull after... And that was on 1 bar of FPGreen boost. 93 octane. Minimal timing. I think I didn't run more than 17 degrees at 7000rpm.

I bet my engine was just an outlier...
I'm not sure what you don't understand about 93 octane versus 91. And I'm really not sure why you're still posting in my threads. Are you just trying to convince yourself that you made the right decision with your own build? I could care less if you like the idea or not. You've stated your thoughts on it and no longer have anything new to bring to the table. Go back under the bridge you crawled out from and stop cluttering my threads with your troll BS.

-- Ed
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:42 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
Thanks for the graphs but \/
That's my fault entirely. Things have been extremely busy around here and I haven't had a chance to take any more pics. I'll try to do that in the next week.

-- Ed
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Old 07-14-2010, 10:42 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
I'm not sure what you don't understand about 93 octane versus 91. And I'm really not sure why you're still posting in my threads. Are you just trying to convince yourself that you made the right decision with your own build? I could care less if you like the idea or not. You've stated your thoughts on it and no longer have anything new to bring to the table. Go back under the bridge you crawled out from and stop cluttering my threads with your troll BS.

-- Ed
You asked me a question and I answered.
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Old 07-20-2010, 05:32 PM   #187
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bump.
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Old 08-10-2010, 02:56 AM   #188
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I look forward to doing business with you guys.
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:50 PM   #189
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Hi , I have two sets of pistons ..
one CP std EJ257 , another JE hybrid piston for 2.0 head.

if I choose to machine the head , which set of pistons to be installed ?

anyway , please check PM
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:24 PM   #190
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Please check PM....
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:29 PM   #191
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Nice talking with you!

-- Ed
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Old 08-17-2010, 03:26 PM   #192
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bump.
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Old 08-17-2010, 03:46 PM   #193
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^^^Super Cool Guys!!!

They were really honest with me. Helped me out alot!
Ed, you need to make a trip Back to hawaii and tune some Subies!
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Old 08-17-2010, 04:43 PM   #194
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Quote:
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^^^Super Cool Guys!!!

They were really honest with me. Helped me out alot!
Ed, you need to make a trip Back to hawaii and tune some Subies!
Line up some cars and I'm there!!!

-- Ed
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Old 08-20-2010, 12:46 PM   #195
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bump.
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Old 08-24-2010, 04:18 PM   #196
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bump.
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:56 PM   #197
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Still trying to decide between this and a just a good P&P with bigger valves. I know this matches the combustion chamber better with the motor, but for my Auto-X car, i'm thinkin the little bump in compression might be helpful.

You said the other downside is timing issues? From what? I'm not questioning at all, i have done buisness with Ed before and was completely happy with his expertise...just trying to gain some additional knowledge here before i make my choice between:

1. 2.0L heads, Machined combustion chambers, 1mm oversized valves, P&P, valve springs and Crower Cams...want to rev to about 8K

OR

2. 2.0L heads, stock combustion chamber with hybrid pistons, 1mm oversized valves, P&P, Valve springs, and Crower cams.



I'm also looking into custom pistons for option #1 so that i can get the benefits of the correct shaped combustion chamber, and a slight increase in compresion.

Hope this isn't beating a dead horse...i'm just desperate to make some serious low-end power this time around. My wife told me i only get to re-buld this car once...LOL.
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:04 PM   #198
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i thought the issue with the hybrid was more with the shape and edges of the 2.0 head on a 257 block. the higher compression is only a problem if not tuned properly....
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Old 08-27-2010, 09:16 PM   #199
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i thought the issue with the hybrid was more with the shape and edges of the 2.0 head on a 257 block. the higher compression is only a problem if not tuned properly....
I was under this impression too... I thought I remembered hearing that the quench area gets screwed in this scenario...leading to hot spots in the combustion chamber, making it more prone to detonation. After tuning to avoid said detonation, it made for a rather stupid/less-than desireable (don't remember specifically) torque curve, IIRC.
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:08 PM   #200
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That's what i thought...makes perfect sense...
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