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Old 03-09-2010, 05:33 PM   #1
BeatLA
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Default Anyone else think NASCAR's year of 'bad boy' racing will end badly?

Already one horrific accident due to encouraged 'bumping'. I think that letting the 'boys be boys' will end in someone's death. Way to take a horrible racing series and make it worse by endangering your drivers...
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:00 PM   #2
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I was very suprised that they'd openly encourage agressive driving just to boost ratings. I think it is wrong to deliberately increase the risk. At those speeds you can't predict what will happen.
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:07 PM   #3
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I don't think its bad that they took the handcuffs off as far as bump drafting and contact goes. That's what this series was built on. Now, not punishing Car Edwards with a suspension for a premeditated attack is idiotic. That sort of behavior isn't acceptable in children, much less adults.
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:15 PM   #4
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i thought it was pretty bad that they let him get away with it. i know he may not of thought it would turn out like that, but still, definately childish on his part and i feel he should have gotten some sort of punishment.
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:16 PM   #5
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Wasn't Dale E's death caused by blocking? I need to go back and watch it but I'm pretty sure that this situation has already happened.

And Carl should be punished. Just like in hockey or any other sport, you CAN do wrong but you should have to suffer a penalty for it.
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Old 03-09-2010, 06:18 PM   #6
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Montoya was going to catch him.

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Old 03-09-2010, 06:21 PM   #7
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I don't think it was ever encouraged to wreck anyone, jst that they would allow more bump drafting. Car Edwards not getting a more severe penalty is ridiculous. Of course the haters will always blindly bash NASCAR, and this is just fuel for that.
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Old 03-09-2010, 07:44 PM   #8
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i think it will not only end badly but will be crap the entire season, like it has been for a cpl years.



sorry, just venting.
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:23 PM   #9
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Yeah drivers in NASCAR blatently crashed each other for years and years. The after Dale Sr. Death they started getting stupid with pentilizing drivers for the same thin that where legal before. I doubt it will end up baddly for NASCAR.

Oh and thought I'm a fan of the racing in NASCAR, the drivers crashing each other and the Jerry springer type fist fights that will soon follow will get the Bud Light toteing, ford truck driving, marboro smoking red necks back into the sport.

Selling tickets/tv viewers>drivers
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvallwheeldrive View Post
Yeah drivers in NASCAR blatently crashed each other for years and years. The after Dale Sr. Death they started getting stupid with pentilizing drivers for the same thin that where legal before. I doubt it will end up baddly for NASCAR.

Oh and thought I'm a fan of the racing in NASCAR, the drivers crashing each other and the Jerry springer type fist fights that will soon follow will get the Bud Light toteing, ford truck driving, marboro smoking red necks back into the sport.

Selling tickets/tv viewers>drivers
Spelling FAIL.
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:13 PM   #11
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Rubbing is racing. Put it this way, if someone bumped me off the track and I had a chance to get back at him, I would.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:55 AM   #12
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Spelling FAIL.
Read my location
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:42 PM   #13
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Rubbing is racing. Put it this way, if someone bumped me off the track and I had a chance to get back at him, I would.
If you're racing for position, I agree.

If you're 100+ laps down where you have nothing to gain, I disagree entirely.

I'm OK with the allowing more casual contact, but I think Edwards should have been warned 3 laps earlier when it was obvious what he was trying to do. It may not be good for ratings, but even if Edwards had only spun Kesolowski into the infield, with the situation that resulted, and ultimately signifiacantly altering the outcome of the race because of the late yellow, I think he should get a much more significant penalty than stiing you for the last 10 laps when you're 100+ laps down. I like the idea of making the penalty hurt...a lot. I'd go with something like a 150 point penalty instituted at the start of the chase, with the penalty instituted before the Chase field is set if it would drop him out of the chase, or after the chase starts if even with the 150 point penalty he'd still qualify.

This is also in large part because I think it was Edwards, not Kesolowski, that ultimately caused their first accident in the race. Yes, Kesolowski didn't give him any extra room when Edwards moved down, but Edwards had no reason to move down at that point. Had he stayed high for that corner, he would have been by Kesolowski with no issues.

I'm OK with overaggressive driving. Sometimes that happens. I'm not OK with dirty driving. This was dirty.
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Old 03-11-2010, 12:59 PM   #14
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Yeah, there's a big difference between rubbing and pulling a PIT maneuver. Edwards should definitely be given a stricter penalty.
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:52 PM   #15
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Yeah, there's a big difference between rubbing and pulling a PIT maneuver. Edwards should definitely be given a stricter penalty.
this ^^
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Old 03-11-2010, 02:01 PM   #16
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NASCAR - "Hey here's an inch of rope, you kids play nice"

Carl Edwards - "Yeeehaw! Now I got me a foot of rope, I'mma be a cowboy!"

Brad Keselowski - "Wait, what?" *WRECK*

I'm a longtime fan of Edwards; he had no reason/right to do what he did. Will it stop me from watching Nascar, NO. Will it stop me from being a fan of his, NO.
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Old 03-11-2010, 02:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lboogie View Post
NASCAR - "Hey here's an inch of rope, you kids play nice"

Carl Edwards - "Yeeehaw! Now I got me a foot of rope, I'mma be a cowboy!"

Brad Keselowski - "Wait, what?" *WRECK*


That's what I'm talking about. Bumping is fine, but give them an inch...

Kind of like when they raised the speed limit to 65 here in MA...suddenly 75 didn't sound so bad! Technically illegal, but close to the limit.
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Old 03-11-2010, 02:15 PM   #18
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Carl got 3 weeks probation for it though I agree he should have been suspended.

Earnhardt Sr. was famous for bumping and such. Where you think he got the name "The Intimidator" from? It's all part of racing. Nudging and rubbing and bumping to get through is legit in my eyes. But blatant 'ramming' into a car in a dangerous way is not acceptable.
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Old 03-11-2010, 07:33 PM   #19
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^I don't recall but would someone have received a similar punishment back in the Ernhardt Sr days for what Edwards did? Also I remember a story from last year where a rookie driver was told to back off and not drive so fast because he was pushing the leaders who were in the chase near the end of the season.
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Old 03-12-2010, 02:05 AM   #20
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Quote:
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If you're racing for position, I agree.

If you're 100+ laps down where you have nothing to gain, I disagree entirely....

...I'm OK with overaggressive driving. Sometimes that happens. I'm not OK with dirty driving. This was dirty.
I don't car if I am racing for position or not. All I am saying is that if someone punts me off the track on purpose / being over aggressive, I WILL get back at them given the chance. I also don't car if they are racing for position either. Maybe I would be racing for position if they did not punt me off yes?

Bottom line is that rubbing / bumping is a two way street. Kesolowski had taken out Edwards in the past and this was payback. Did Edwards want Kesolski to go airborn? No. I am sure he just wanted to spin him out, he even indicated this in his interviews.

As for NASCAR not punishing Edwards enough, I think they did the right thing. I can only hope those two have settled their diferences and have mutual respect for each other as race car drivers and human beings.
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Old 03-12-2010, 10:21 AM   #21
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Kesolowski had taken out Edwards in the past and this was payback.
I think that this is where our differnces lie. I'm not familiar with what happened in the Nationwide series, but for the early race incident last week, and for Talledega last year, I put the blame on both of those on moves Edwards made, not on Kesolowski not moving.

There's also a time and a place for it. The last 10 laps of a race is not the right time. Had this happened with 100 laps left in the race rather than less than 10 laps left, I'd have less of an issue with it. Hell, had he just followed Kesolowski to the checker and wrecked him at the end of the race on the cool down lap, I would have had a lot less problem with it.This intentional act didn't just affect Kesolowski...it affected the outcome of the race, bunched up the entire field, which wrecked a lot of cars that had nothing to do with Edwards or Kesolowski where it looked like the race would have finished under green otherwise.
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Old 03-12-2010, 11:12 AM   #22
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Nobody will get hurt, and that accident wasnt "horrific"
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Old 03-12-2010, 11:26 AM   #23
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NASCAR has become the four-wheeled version of the Springer Show.
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:22 PM   #24
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This was a good read. Written by Marshall Pruett at speedtv.com

Quote:
I don’t remember the age my father imparted the following bit of wisdom, nor do I recall the exact words he used, but it went something like this: Don’t do things on purpose that might kill people.

This has nothing to do with Edwards, Keselowski, their history, NASCAR or any specific series, frankly. We’ve seen sportscar and tin-top drivers try to launch each other into outer space throughout the years, and often at speed approaching what we saw at Atlanta Motor Speedway.

Two weeks after the NHRA saw one of its fans suffer a gruesome, horrific death from being smashed by the weight of a 56-pound rear wheel/tire cast from Top Fuel car at over 200 miles per hour, I would have expected the fallout from Carl Edwards making Brad Keselowski’s Dodge look like Shawn White on the half-pipe at the Winter Olympics to have been more, um, serious.

Instead, we’ve seen far too many people excuse Edwards’ behavior, writing it off as an accepted form of vigilante justice. “That’ll teach that snot-nosed kid a lesson” seems to be the popular opinion. I’d agree, if it took place outside of a moving racing car.

When a driver shows his willingness to send a racing car into the stands, it trivializes the loss that the drag racing community suffered and all those who’ve seen the terror that mixing cars or cars part at high rates of speed and fans will produce.

We understand that racing is inherently dangerous – and that’s when everything is going according to plan…when every driver is focused solely on NOT trying to cause an accident. When a driver goes ‘rogue’ and elects to use his or her car to wreck someone, we stray into areas that the sport likely can’t bear to withstand.

Grabbing headlines in the national media due to a spectacular crash is one thing, provided that crash doesn’t hurt any spectators. Imagine the outrage at fan fatalities from a driver intentionally causing a wreck. With the fear mongering wave America is currently subjected to, how long does it take for every cable news channel to run headlines of ‘Is (insert series) the new Bloodsport?’ or ‘Killing its fans for entertainment’s sake?’

The Nancy Grace’s of the world – and her millions of followers – live for this kind of wrongful death story to whip people into a frenzy. And with the cast of jokers we have in congress, how many of you doubt one guy will seize the opportunity to turn a fan’s death from an intentional wreck into his chance to grab the national spotlight and call for auto racing to be banned? It’s a slippery slope to follow.

At a time when dollars are short and sponsors are the most elusive catch in our sport, the last thing we need is to bring the weight of the non-racing media down on us. We can’t afford to scare away the roster of sponsors that are already nervous. Images of the XYZ International-sponsored car upside down in the grandstands will not only cause XYZ to leave the sport permanently, the sponsors of the driver who sent the XYZ-mobile into the stands will also be gone. And then we have years of lawsuits, possible manslaughter charges, the involvement of district attorneys, and the spectacle of an O.J.-esque trial.

All of this simply because one driver wasn’t smart enough to pause for a moment, to ignore the guy in the car ahead of him that he wanted to wreck, and instead, look out into the tens of thousands of people in the grandstands that could have a car sitting in their laps if he opts to use his car as a weapon.

Nelson Piquet Jr. steered himself into a wall at low speed on purpose in F1 – the only person he could hurt was himself – and look at all the negative headlines, bans, and the black cloud it caused. His self-inflicted misery might not have risked any lives, but it did risk his sport. The thought of a driver killing fans -- even unintentionally -- because he felt the need to mete out justice like he saw it done on the Jerry Springer Show simply isn’t acceptable.

We’ve never really had our judicial system cast its eye on our sport and I don’t want to give them any reason to peel back the covers and begin investigating. I don’t want to see our sport on trial, for laws to be enacted to police how and what drivers do on the racetrack. This is something we’ve self-policed – sanctioning bodies and track owners are always in fear of the big wreck that brings their series into disrepute and forces them into bankruptcy. It’s a precarious situation, and one I don’t want to see jeopardized in the heat of battle.

Carl Edwards never intended for Keselowski to get upside down. I believe him when he says that. But had Brad’s car gotten into the stands and killed a few people, the footage of Edwards’s hands steering his car to the right to wreck Keselowski would be rather damning if played in front of a jury. It would also tarnish the sport like nothing else before.

This is a door we don’t want to open.

Fendered cars foster a level of boldness when it comes to hitting one another that you won’t find elsewhere. I think there’s a feeling of invulnerability – one that possibly allows drivers to turn their brains off from time to time.

There’s a reason why IndyCar drivers don’t retaliate on ovals. I’ve witnessed the effects of wheels going into the stands, seen a row of fans obliterated, and watched as every newspaper and sports-related magazine ran ‘Is racing too dangerous’ stories. And that was sparked by deaths from a genuine, ‘I really didn’t plan for this to happen’ accident.

Letting a driver with a rage-filled myopic view of the world – one where he only sees the car in front of him and not the families that could face the brunt of his actions – isn’t something to be cavalier about. It isn’t about letting a time-honored code be played out. It isn’t about a veteran teaching a rookie a lesson. It isn’t cool.

Like my old man said: Don’t do things on purpose that might kill people. Don’t drag the fans into your own mindless vendettas.

Amidst all of the conjecture, I’m surprised a showman like Humpy Wheeler hasn’t announced something catching like the ‘Ring of Fire.’ Drivers with a beef like Edwards and Keselowski are ushered from their cars after the race, but into a boxing ring, are given headgear and gloves, and are forced to go at it until one of them cries ‘Uncle’ or gets knocked out.

Let the winning driver do his donuts and then pull the boxing ring in on a trailer right in the middle of the grass on the front stretch. Rather than put the fans at risk, they are given even more bang, or in this case, more punch for their buck. Tell me a slow-mo replay of Keselowski hitting the canvas like Brad Pitt in Snatch with his eyes rolled into the back of his head and slobber flying out of his mouth wouldn’t be replayed for years on every channel on the planet.

I’m serious. Tapping another guy’s bumper at 195 mph isn’t a man’s act. That’s the easy way out. I say ‘lace ‘em up boys’ and take it to the ring. Let’s get you out from inside that roll cage, let’s take off the helmet and HANS device, and let’s also remove the fans from being unwilling participants in any on-track madness that might cross your minds.

Maybe a few punches to the head in the Ring of Fire will shake some sense loose.
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Old 03-12-2010, 03:38 PM   #25
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What the problem is when you do not own and have to maintain the car you do not care if it gets wrecked. I would love to see more local short track type driving in NASCAR. They do bump and bang a little. But they also own and maintain that car and damage comes out of their wallet.

If the owners told the drivers what ever repairs have to be done to the car after a race comes out of their pay check I bet you would still see good racing but not drivers caring if they take out their car in trying to do pay back.
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