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Old 05-30-2002, 10:28 PM   #1
kbrate
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Default BE/BH 4-Pot Conversion

Greetings:

Looking for anyone that has done a Front brake conversion to the Subaru 4-Pot/ 294mm Disk on a 3rd Generation (2000+ US Spec) Legacy. How did it go, were you happy with the results, where did you get the parts and what was necessary, what pads did you use etc, etc....

Anyone who wants to post about any other model year, or why this isn't neessary go right ahead but it really won't help me...

BTW I've checked with a number of vendors and I can't find anyone that has experience with this ...... interesting


KCB
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Old 05-31-2002, 01:25 AM   #2
anotherB4
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Thumbs up Different car, but done...

They are a bolt-on mod - all the connectors are a straight cross-over.

Extra 5cents: The only thing I would add is some stainless steel mesh brake hoses. You are gonna have to drain the brake fluid anyway, so go ahead and stretch for those at the same time. They make a real difference to the pedal feel!!

Sorry I can't help with where and how much, though.
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Old 05-31-2002, 11:44 AM   #3
AGscooby
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I've been milling this conversion over with my non-existent funds. We can always dream.

I would say the Legacy could always use more brake power and feel. A lot of the WRX folk are going to gigantic brake kits that might not be necessary for the driving that they do; this excludes the auto-crossers and track-types. Our cars carry a little more heft, so it would seem a great idea.

Keep in mind the pitfalls of the Subaru 4pot calipers. They won't fit most 15s or the OE Legacy 15s and 16s. You'll have to source some 98-01 RS wheels or spring for the 17s (with brake clearance). This might be a major deterrent.

Currently, Mastro (not plugging, just a fact) carries 4pot conversions with DBA rotors for ~$800 which is a pretty good deal.

An less expensive alternative would be a the WRX conversion changing out our rotors for the larger WRX ones. This affords a little more brake torque, and with the right pads, might be the ticket for most. This option would cost ~$300 for the caliper brackets and new rotors IIRC. Pluses include ease of installation since you're reusing your caliper and less expensive pads, relative to the 4pots. Also, these will fit under OE USDM WRX wheels, which seem to be in abundance. Clearance issues aren't as prevalent with other wheels as well.

Did I miss anything?

AnthonyG
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Old 05-31-2002, 03:24 PM   #4
ciper
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I agree with anotherB4.

However you dont need to drain the fluid, you could even get away (although I wouldnt suggest it) in using the stock lines and adding very little fluid.

I know, I did this on my legacy! Im waiting for my SS lines to arrive and I got impatient so I just stuck them on.


Have you thought about the spare tire? If you plan to get 4 pots up front I would guess you also will upgrade the rears. Thats the situation Im in now. Im guessing that I can get a spare from a wrx that will fit in my spare storage and still clear the brakes.

For 4 pots Im not sure what you can use. perhaps the steel wheel still clears them?
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Old 05-31-2002, 04:15 PM   #5
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oh, geez. I never thought about the spare tire issue that comes along with brake upgrades.



is there a solution?
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:43 PM   #6
ciper
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My solution so far was not to upgrade the rears yet.

Im thinking that since most spares are a steel wheel they migh be heavy but the steel is pretty thin so they might still clear the wheel.

I think the spare is a 15 inch wheel. Im trying to find one to try.

Also if you do upgrade the fronts and the spare wont fit you could always take a rear wheel off and stick it on the front then put the spare on the back.

Issue with this for wrx owner is you CANNOT disable the 4wd. Basically if the outer diameter isnt close to what the rest is you may still not want to us the spare.
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Old 05-31-2002, 06:10 PM   #7
kbrate
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anotherB4 -
Thanks for the info but one question, from your signature and location I would guess that you were dealing with the Bilstein suspension. Now I believe this setup uses smaller Diameter Springs- what else is different? Are you sure that the mounting points for the calipers are same as US Models? I might be being a bit to cautious but......

And I am planning on changing to SS Lines

AGscooby -
THe 294mm Disks are the WRX Disks - One reason I'm going to 4-Pots is that my understanding from this board is that while their are a limited number of 15in Wheels that will fit at least some do (Specifically Raceline RL-7 and Compomotive TH-2). I have gathered that there are no 15in wheels that fit the larger disk Legacy GT Brakes or the WRX 2-Pots. Since I already have one year old 15in Snow Tires the $ difference between buying only new 15in wheels to fit and buying new 16in Wheels and Tires will offset the slight extra of the 4-Pots. (I am currently running UK WRX 17 x 7 wheels for the summer so no problems there)

monovich -
If all else fails move a tire from the rear to the front and put the spare on the rear.....
Really, I've thought about this and if what I've gotten from this board is correct i.e. that some 15in wheels will fit over the 4-Pots (since WRC rules dictate 15in wheels for gravel Rallys this has to be correct) and no 15in will fit the Legacy GT 2-Pots then a GT Spare should fit over the 4-Pots. I just hope the GT and L spare are the same.....

While I'll take anotherB4 as a partial answer I still haven't heard from anyone with a US Spec BE/BH that has done this ..... anyone out there?
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Old 05-31-2002, 06:30 PM   #8
ciper
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Wild, I didnt know the 4 pots fit under some wheels that the 2 pots cant.


4 pots fit under some 15 inch while 2 pots dont

2 pots fit under the wrx usdm 16 inch while 4 pots dont.

What the heck?
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Old 05-31-2002, 08:24 PM   #9
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it has to do with the wheel design. Look at a set of '98 impreza golds. The "spokes" are bowed out to fit the 4-pots. I have the wrx calipers/rotors on my car and couldn't be happier. Even in auto-x's I don't feel I would need a bigger brake setup.
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Old 05-31-2002, 08:36 PM   #10
monovich
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well I've got P7 wheels anyways, so I know the 2 pots fit mine, but what I'd need to test is a spare, and if all else failed, I could just use the wheel swap idea.

-S
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Old 05-31-2002, 08:50 PM   #11
kbrate
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Quote:
Originally posted by nitrohuffer
it has to do with the wheel design. Look at a set of '98 impreza golds. The "spokes" are bowed out to fit the 4-pots. I have the wrx calipers/rotors on my car and couldn't be happier. Even in auto-x's I don't feel I would need a bigger brake setup.
Was this a direct bolt up? What did the WRX calipers/rotor change require beyond the Rotors and Calipers? Brackets? Backing Plates? - By extension since the 4-Pots are a birect Bolt on to the WRX if the WRX 2-Pots are a direct bolt on to your car they (the 4-Pots) should work...

It's what I think but I'm looking for confirmation.
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Old 05-31-2002, 08:55 PM   #12
Peaty
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should be similar to this for the Legacy fronts:

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/sho...=&threadid=349

also some rotor sizing info here:

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/sho...=&threadid=454
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Old 05-31-2002, 09:40 PM   #13
ciper
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ANY Subaru (non loyal) from 90+ can take the wrx 2 pots as far as I know, not counting wether they fit under the wheel of course.

As far as direct bolt up, its insanely easy. Even someone who knows little about cars could do it no sweat as long as someone helped them bleed it.
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Old 06-01-2002, 01:21 AM   #14
AGscooby
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Question

IIRC, the 4pot caliper is larger than the 2pot in every dimension. It is because of this that the 4pot will not fit under the USDM OE WRX wheel. The larger diameter of the WRX rotor does not allow the use of any 15" OE wheel. The Raceline and Compmotive fit since there is more internal diameter room, right? So, all wheels that fit the 4pot setup with 294mm rotors will fit the 2pot setup with the same rotors. Is this correct?

What kind of spare comes with the B4 RSK or WRX STi? They don't have run-flats.

AnthonyG
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Old 06-01-2002, 01:37 AM   #15
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Since the same brake package as the US WRX is std on the B4, there is no issue unless you change over to the 4 pots, then it is a matter of using the space saver on the rear, and always having a fullsize on the front.

Dunno what the story is for the OEM 4-pot cars tho...let alone the new STi with those HUGE Brembos

Time to ask some owners me thinks...and since a couple of owners are also in our little band here in Tokyo...<looking for mobile phone> brb
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Old 06-01-2002, 01:45 AM   #16
anotherB4
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afaik and what everyone tells me, it is a case of using the space saver on the rear and if a front is punctured, moving a fullsize from the rear to the front...
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Old 06-01-2002, 03:31 AM   #17
shirokuma
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Shame on you yetAnotherBloodyB4, you knew that one!
The new age STI has a special space-saver tyre - whilst the exact specifications escape me, it's either full-sized, or at least sized to fit over zose pesky leetle Brembonies. It is literally the only Subaru with that space-saver.

Now, as an owner of 4-pot fronts that has had the incredibly interesting, and dare I say, fun experience of putting on the space-saver, experience has taught me that you put the space-saver on a rear tyre, and rotate that to the front. You may get confused, because the standard space-saver will bolt up, but it won't turn after you've gone to the effort of removing your front tyre and bolting it up. Oh, and if you hear a clunking from the front end after all your labor, it's possibly the front halfshaft popped out of the drivetrain, sort of an automotive dislocated shoulder. Thanks to the beauty of AWD, you can still move, albeit at a leisurely, slower-than-grannies-bicycle pace.

Now, while I certainly recommend the upgrade, be warned that you will have much more braking in the front than the rear. Really heavy duty braking will bring this to light, but in my experience, all other circumstances than at the track or braking from 150mph, it hasn't been a problem.

Paul Hansen
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Old 06-01-2002, 02:05 PM   #18
kbrate
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Quote:
Originally posted by AGscooby
IIRC, the 4pot caliper is larger than the 2pot in every dimension. SNIP..... So, all wheels that fit the 4pot setup with 294mm rotors will fit the 2pot setup with the same rotors. Is this correct?
AnthonyG
Since I have never seen a 4-Pot and a 2-Pot caliper sitting side by side I really don't know how they compare. The wheel fit issue I'm sure I saw on this board at some point but I can't find it now.... Maybe your right that the Raceline/Copomotive's will fit over the 2-Pots as well... I may have to re-think my plan. Anyone?

Quote:
Originally posted by nitrohuffer
I have the wrx calipers/rotors on my car and couldn't be happier
Aren't the Front brakes on a 2001 GT the same as a WRX to start with(Subaru lists them both as 11.4 Vented Disk w/2 Pot Caliper)? The quote seems to imply that you changed something?

KCB
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Old 06-01-2002, 02:39 PM   #19
AGscooby
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Lightbulb

I want to say the BE/BH Legacy received a brake upgrade in the past year or so. I seem to recall that the GT used to run smaller brakes with the Outback being the only model to receive the 11.4" fronts. Now it seems that the 02 GT has larger brakes in the front and rear (11.4"/11.3").

AnthonyG
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Old 06-01-2002, 02:50 PM   #20
AGscooby
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Found the old thread where I quoted the rotor sizes from the 01 brochures.

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...574#post833574

So that means that one of the 02 upgrades was larger front rotors.

AnthonyG
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Old 06-01-2002, 03:48 PM   #21
kbrate
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Default Getting Old

I would have swore that the 2001 GT's had the bigger brakes but I checked my 2001 brochure ( I have a 2001 L ) and your right .....

KCB
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Old 06-01-2002, 11:23 PM   #22
AGscooby
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I'm getting old, too... can't even remember where I put my 01 brochures.
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Old 06-02-2002, 04:11 PM   #23
Prez&SUS
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I just wanted to add that as a general rule, at least in my experience, you never use the mini-spare on the front, it is just one of those pieces of passed down knowledge that i thought everyone went by.

i know i know this is not relevent whatsoever but i cant help myself sometimes, sorry
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Old 06-04-2002, 08:20 PM   #24
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One of the best mods I have done! You will have to change to RS or 17" Prodrive wheels like I did. I have 35K miles on them now and enjoy them everytime I use 'em.
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