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Old 02-14-2012, 10:54 AM   #2676
Elemento1991
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I see lots of BW S256 setups on here but all I can find are dyno charts. I'm curious what kind of lag you are seeing on the streets as opposed to the dyno logs.

I'm shooting for the ballpark of 400 on straight 93 and once my motors done I'm gonna add meth.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:57 AM   #2677
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Car was finally tuned on E85 but again without dramas. Made 613 whp @2.1 bar but the intake pipe, boost lines to wastegate and BOV kept blowing up. This will need to be rectified before i can try and max out this setup..

Interstingly sean my tuner said there seems to be still alot more left in the setup, we picked up 60 nm of torque and 60 whp going from 1.9 to 2.1 bar so at 2.2-2.3 bar which is what im looking at doing for the drag setup should hopefully pick up atleast another 60whp and nudge torque over the 800 nm.. But maybe try and go for the elusive 700 whp..


The maps are compared to VP109 tune at 1.9 bar with GT40R turbo.. There dosent seem to be much difference between the two on the chart but it feels so much more responsive on the road..

Below is the 613 whp tune.. where the squiggly line comes up is where the IC pipe blows off..





The below chart is what the car is de-tuned for track work:

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Old 02-27-2012, 10:00 AM   #2678
raffi@full-race
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tino
Car was finally tuned on E85 but again without dramas. Made 613 whp @2.1 bar but the intake pipe, boost lines to wastegate and BOV kept blowing up. This will need to be rectified before i can try and max out this setup..

Interstingly sean my tuner said there seems to be still alot more left in the setup, we picked up 60 nm of torque and 60 whp going from 1.9 to 2.1 bar so at 2.2-2.3 bar which is what im looking at doing for the drag setup should hopefully pick up atleast another 60whp and nudge torque over the 800 nm.. But maybe try and go for the elusive 700 whp..

The maps are compared to VP109 tune at 1.9 bar with GT40R turbo.. There dosent seem to be much difference between the two on the chart but it feels so much more responsive on the road..

Below is the 613 whp tune.. where the squiggly line comes up is where the IC pipe blows off..

The below chart is what the car is de-tuned for track work:
That's great Tino. The same was said by Jeff Perrin as well as anyone who has now installed their efr in regards to the response on the street not reflecting the dyno. I witnessed it on Geoffs setup, as it was almost immediate.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:15 AM   #2679
thefoos
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I'm in the very early stages of tuning my 7064 TS IWG. I'm hitting 10 psig by 3200 in 2nd gear. I'm sure once its dialed in right, it will easily out spool my VF43 (remember, 2.0L). I was very impressed on my maiden voyage...
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:37 AM   #2680
juanmedina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefoos View Post
I'm in the very early stages of tuning my 7064 TS IWG. I'm hitting 10 psig by 3200 in 2nd gear. I'm sure once its dialed in right, it will easily out spool my VF43 (remember, 2.0L). I was very impressed on my maiden voyage...

Post logs when you finish
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:59 AM   #2681
thefoos
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^will do...
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:40 PM   #2682
MrLith
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Tino - nice result, are the solid lines the new EFR turbo? Is there any difference in engine spec between the two plots?
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:19 PM   #2683
tino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raffi@full-race View Post
That's great Tino. The same was said by Jeff Perrin as well as anyone who has now installed their efr in regards to the response on the street not reflecting the dyno. I witnessed it on Geoffs setup, as it was almost immediate.
yeh it feels very responsive to drive i might try and get it on the open road today and get some go pro vids.. Need to fill the tank on e85 though

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLith View Post
Tino - nice result, are the solid lines the new EFR turbo? Is there any difference in engine spec between the two plots?
The solid lines are the old turbo setup GT40R and VP109 the dotted lines are with the EFR 8374 and E85..

similar power but you can throw more timing in on VP109 asfaik and make more power so the 83 74 is making more power at the same boost levels imo..
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:10 PM   #2684
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Glad to see folks getting results. It's a big shame the efr's are unavailable at the moment, already waited for months & was told there is more months of waiting..

Do you still have your old gt40 Tino,how much you want for it ?
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:19 PM   #2685
garagedefeat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elemento1991 View Post
I see lots of BW S256 setups on here but all I can find are dyno charts. I'm curious what kind of lag you are seeing on the streets as opposed to the dyno logs.

I'm shooting for the ballpark of 400 on straight 93 and once my motors done I'm gonna add meth.
I was seeing target boost--20 psi--@ 3850 with an airboy pull I just looked at. If you want the full log PM me your email.
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:42 AM   #2686
Nagase
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Been doing research, can't find it. Anyone know what to expect a maximum effort EFR 6758/7064 to make on an STi on 91 octane gas?
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Old 03-10-2012, 12:56 PM   #2687
Ninja007
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This is the only person close to getting a efr 7064 up and running: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2282075. He is on a 2.0L though. His preliminary results for spool up on a pretty much untuned setup look great (full boost by 3500), on a tuned 2.5 will be even better. My number crunching on matchbot show the 6758 to be too small of a turbo for the 2.5L, but the 7064 should be perfect for an autocross type setup. I predict Results similar to a 30R with slightly better spool and topend, around 400whp on well tuned pump setup.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:15 PM   #2688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja007 View Post
This is the only person close to getting a efr 7064 up and running: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2282075. He is on a 2.0L though. His preliminary results for spool up on a pretty much untuned setup look great (full boost by 3500), on a tuned 2.5 will be even better. My number crunching on matchbot show the 6758 to be too small of a turbo for the 2.5L, but the 7064 should be perfect for an autocross type setup. I predict Results similar to a 30R with slightly better spool and topend, around 400whp on well tuned pump setup.


The 6758 has better response than stock, the 7064 has much worse.



The 6758 does an easy 400whp here, at 25 psi. The 6758 can handle above 40 psi, and has done 550whp on E85, on a Cobalt 2.4.

So the 6758 on 91 octane is somewhere between 400whp and 550whp. Note that this Perrin setup is /very much/ non optimal as well.

Edit: Note that the 7064 is using the large housing single scroll here.

Double edit: I'm finding 440whp at least on 93 octane without meth or water.

Last edited by Nagase; 03-10-2012 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:36 PM   #2689
thefoos
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^I had a VF43 before my 7064 TS IWG. I can say with confidence that the 7064 spools just as fast as the VF43. It may spool quicker when I'm done tuning...

I'm working on some driveability issues at the moment, and then I will be getting back to tuning for power. Results to come soon...

I wouldn't go any smaller than the 7064 on a 2.5L. It would make a fantastic auto-x setup.
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:18 PM   #2690
Ninja007
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Thanks for postin that article, haven't read it yet. The 6754 does look like a pretty potent turbo with excellent response. Perrin did mention the shaft speed during the tests was way above the recommended limit from Borgwarner, the 2.5L just flows too much air for this turbo at higher psi. Hopefully the spool up is improved with the twinscroll 7064, I still think its the way to go. Can't wait until we have more data, even if it is on a 2.0
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:09 PM   #2691
Nagase
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja007 View Post
Thanks for postin that article, haven't read it yet. The 6754 does look like a pretty potent turbo with excellent response. Perrin did mention the shaft speed during the tests was way above the recommended limit from Borgwarner, the 2.5L just flows too much air for this turbo at higher psi. Hopefully the spool up is improved with the twinscroll 7064, I still think its the way to go. Can't wait until we have more data, even if it is on a 2.0
I find it doubtful that the shaft speed issue was caused by anything other than the obstruction in the intake manifold, given people hit 550 whp with a 6758 and that the lb/min for that is still in map.

Edit: That was misleading. The E85 makes turbos more effective than they could be, but you can see Ecotecs out there with 440-450whp on the 6758 no problem on pump. That should be around the 130k shaft speed, definitely not 150k at 400whp.

Last edited by Nagase; 03-10-2012 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 07:55 AM   #2692
Nagase
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Reading over it, looks like he did get the 440whp once he took out the TGVs. That was at the 152k though.

Aaaaand, I did more research. Full Race has worked with BW quite a bit on the turbo, and 153k turbine speed is perfectly fine, according to them:

"you will see that the highest line shows "128.1" this means 128,100 is the recommended max speed for this turbo, and it can push a maximum airflow rate of approx 79 lb/min. Of course you can spin the turbo faster than this, but that will generate more heat without increasing airflow. Anything over 130,000 rpm is going to be choke flow and not going to be beneficial for power or healthy for the turbo.

compare that to the 9180:"

That's for the 8374. Obviously way bigger than the 6758. The bigger, the slower. The highest speed mapped on the 6758? 153.9k. They're safe above that, but he was hitting the edge of the efficiency range at 440whp just like the Ecotechs! No black magic here, the 6758 is proven good for 440whp on pump gas.

That settles it for me.
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:27 AM   #2693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefoos View Post
^I had a VF43 before my 7064 TS IWG. I can say with confidence that the 7064 spools just as fast as the VF43. It may spool quicker when I'm done tuning...

I'm working on some driveability issues at the moment, and then I will be getting back to tuning for power. Results to come soon...

I wouldn't go any smaller than the 7064 on a 2.5L. It would make a fantastic auto-x setup.
If you can do back to back boost logging like Perrin did, I'm interested. He shows the 7064 way way way worse than the 6758/VF48. 170 ft/lbs torque I'll take any day over 40 whp, on the street.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:29 PM   #2694
thefoos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagase View Post
If you can do back to back boost logging like Perrin did, I'm interested. He shows the 7064 way way way worse than the 6758/VF48. 170 ft/lbs torque I'll take any day over 40 whp, on the street.
haha, no can do on my car. You make it sound like its just a turbo swap.

I can provide my vf39 02 wagon vs my 7064 02 sedan. Different transmissions though, and different loads.
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Old 03-12-2012, 06:02 PM   #2695
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Well, if you're going TS and EFR, it's at minimum intake/dp/header swap as well. So yeah, not just a turbo swap.

Apples to apples, the 6758 spooled /almost/ as well as a VF48. The 7064 wasn't even close. Add a better header and it should get close... I could see how a very well setup 7064 TS could meet up with a completely stock VF car though.

Last edited by Nagase; 03-12-2012 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:12 AM   #2696
SUBARIFFIC
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I'm looking at the 6758 also.... Its very intriguing its pretty much an New generation GTX30R I think 400+whp is enough for these cars anyway... As soon as they get them on the shelf imma probably get one after my motor been rebuilt...Got a ringland problem
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:54 PM   #2697
juanmedina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetPowerHouse View Post
Here is another test done by Larry at Sound Performance!! This is the Precision 6266BB vs the BW EFR8374.
As per Larry @ Sound:
""I tested these turbos on the same car. 3.4L 10-1 compression supra 2JZ. The BW spooled 70 RPMs faster than the PTE but was down almost 40 RWHP. Precision Turbo 6266DBB is a much better option and when you consider that the list price on the BW is $1100 more than the PTE, it is a no brainer!
Great job guys! I always knew I was selling the best and finally had my chance to prove to the world that I was.


...The BW turbo was a divided turbo on a divided twin scroll header. The PTE was an undivided turbo!...
...Air temps were 65 at the beginning of the pulls and 130 at the end of the 6266 pull. On the BW the air temps hit 136. Not a huge difference. The EBP hit 64 on the 6266 and 69 on the BW. The 6266 had a .81 but I am not sure about the BW...
...both tests were with the same external WG although I pretty much had it clamped closed! I tried a .96 on the PTE and did not pick up any hp, only lag! We are clearly out of compressor wheel, not an EBP issue....

...BW Compressor 62.6/83mm, turbine is 74mm with 1.05 a/r divided housing. PTE is also 62mm compressor wheel, not sure on the other dimension. 66mm turbine wheel with .81 a/r undivided turbine housing...


.......
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:07 PM   #2698
Bariga
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PTE paid advertising?
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:45 PM   #2699
monkiboy
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saw there hasn't been an update in a while. my twin scroll EFR 70/64 with the FR setup on my 08 wrx is getting tuned tomorrow. i'll be sure to post up here and in the general PPB section. i'll be doing a 93 pump, and pump + meth tune tomorrow. feel free to check out the small/quick build thread: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...php?p=37158666. hopefully next i post there's something worthwhile to talk about as i haven't seen much in way of EFRs and subarus posted up yet seeing how hard it was and is to get the EFRs in the first place! fingers crossed!
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Old 05-25-2012, 03:01 AM   #2700
silverongold
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Hey BW guys!
Im trying to select a turbo for build.... again ha ha. i was interested in a 30r size tubo after being disappointed with my tomei turbo. so i called full race and the guy i spoke with recommended the airwerks s200sx. I dont know how to read compressor maps and am trying to learn all the crazy amounts of variables in a turbo selection.
below is a basic on the motor, you tell me what bw turbo i should run and any similar build references would be rad!

goal: aprox 500whp
descent/ quick spool

motor:
fully built closed ej20
stock compression
built 02 wrx heads (but no porting)
bc 272 cams
runs on e85


what turbo would you pair a built 2.0 with, housing sizes ect????
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