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Old 05-20-2010, 10:10 AM   #251
fastfive09
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Someone put their BW videos on Youtube. I need more of those sweet spooling sounds!
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Old 05-20-2010, 01:44 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06rexwagon View Post
This is helping the spool.


Not much , I have roughly the same or higher compression and my 30r spool up never showed any really noticable advantages... Sure it spools a hair faster but not much ....the cosworth intake manifold and all the other cossie stuff working hand in hand is helping spool up most IMO....you wouldn't expect it with big cams ect but I think this is a rare case....
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Old 05-20-2010, 02:13 PM   #253
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Cam you think The E85 tune on syoungs car is going to spool even better? That's what I'm hoping + the E85 and high compression will work really well together also, that will make serious power @ 30psi
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Old 05-20-2010, 04:00 PM   #254
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That is my hope as well. I swear our builds are quite similar. Although the W->A intercooler might differentiate them a bit. For good or bad, I don't know, lol.
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Old 05-20-2010, 04:13 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashtke View Post
That is my hope as well. I swear our builds are quite similar. Although the W->A intercooler might differentiate them a bit. For good or bad, I don't know, lol.
Yeah we gotta get em roarin....Should be sick!
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Old 05-20-2010, 04:39 PM   #256
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The cossie intake manifold DEF hurts spoolup. The runners are large. Back to back testing has showed the power band is shifted to the right. I dont recomend it for GT30R or smaller.

C
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Old 05-20-2010, 06:48 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDagen View Post
Cam you think The E85 tune on syoungs car is going to spool even better? That's what I'm hoping + the E85 and high compression will work really well together also, that will make serious power @ 30psi
I think it will. I can't wait to see some 30psi E85 results. My 88-75 should be finally shipping in about 2 weeks.
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Old 05-20-2010, 07:23 PM   #258
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What's interesting is that no power was gained switching from the 4088r to the 91-79.. I did loose some torque.. I can only assume that I need to have my car retuned for the 91-79 and that the advantages of the BW only show though beyond 25psi...


I'll post comparble 4088r logs with a polt against the 91-79 later tonight..

Last edited by syoung0298; 05-20-2010 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 05-20-2010, 07:33 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06rexwagon View Post
I think it will. I can't wait to see some 30psi E85 results. My 88-75 should be finally shipping in about 2 weeks.
Nice!! Alot of twinscroll setups are about to hit the streets very soon.... I'm getting my injectors the 28th and it's on! I'm interested to see your E85 results on the 88-75 that should be sick , I was going to get that turbo for a little faster spool up , then I got a chance to grab a 91-79 1.00 a.r and I jumped on it but I figured it's so big I won't ever have to worry about upgrading again and I can keep the boost lower for around town bs , then crank the hallman a few times when it's time to boost out
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Old 05-20-2010, 07:50 PM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syoung0298 View Post
What's interesting is that no power was gained switching from the 4088r to the 91-79.. I did loose some torque.. I can only assume that I need to have my car retuned for the 91-79 and that the advantages of the BW only show though beyond 25psi...


I'll post comparble 4088r logs with a polt against the 91-79 later tonight..
Syoung if your tune was leaner during spool up it would spool faster.... your hitting 12.0 afrs at like 2000rpm or so in the logs from before... Also your airtemp is reading 104 during that pull are you running an Iat sensor after the IC for speed density? That heat robs power tho.......Lets see some more logs !!!

Edit Also in your BW log you start the log at 900rpm in 3rd gear.... That kinda gets the engine chuggin weird, I always start at 2000 just so the engine doesn't chug like that and possibly consequently start the pull with it pulling timing ...Maybe hydra doesn't pull timing as easily as the subaru ecu's tho idk.... Anyway more logs more logs!!!

Last edited by TDagen; 05-20-2010 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 05-20-2010, 10:24 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDagen View Post
Syoung if your tune was leaner during spool up it would spool faster.... your hitting 12.0 afrs at like 2000rpm or so in the logs from before... Also your airtemp is reading 104 during that pull are you running an Iat sensor after the IC for speed density? That heat robs power tho.......Lets see some more logs !!!

Edit Also in your BW log you start the log at 900rpm in 3rd gear.... That kinda gets the engine chuggin weird, I always start at 2000 just so the engine doesn't chug like that and possibly consequently start the pull with it pulling timing ...Maybe hydra doesn't pull timing as easily as the subaru ecu's tho idk.... Anyway more logs more logs!!!
the log was an early pull after I installed the id2000.. since then, I've updated the map and leaned out boost onset areas, but there is minimal if any change to spool.

regarding temps it was a hot day, 85 degree ambient..

I beleive that this is close to the best response from the 91-79, which is very impressive for such a large turbo; still better than many others that I've seen; my point with the 4088 comparison, was merely that it spools faster. This isn't a big suprise as the 91-79 is significantly larger.

more logs to come.
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Old 05-20-2010, 10:37 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syoung0298 View Post
the log was an early pull after I installed the id2000.. since then, I've updated the map and leaned out boost onset areas, but there is minimal if any change to spool.

regarding temps it was a hot day, 85 degree ambient..

I beleive that this is close to the best response from the 91-79, which is very impressive for such a large turbo; still better than many others that I've seen; my point with the 4088 comparison, was merely that it spools faster. This isn't a big suprise as the 91-79 is significantly larger.

more logs to come.
Why do you think is spooling faster? is it a better turbo, a better setup?

sick
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Old 05-20-2010, 10:49 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06rexwagon View Post
I think it will. I can't wait to see some 30psi E85 results. My 88-75 should be finally shipping in about 2 weeks.
subscribed,for results.you will probably be done way before me.my kit is still 4 weeks out.
i ordered full=race kit with 83-75 1.00 a/r.i will also be on e85 coupled with a high compression longblock from element tuning.although i wont be pushing it past 28/29 psi.
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Old 05-20-2010, 11:35 PM   #264
TDagen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syoung0298 View Post
the log was an early pull after I installed the id2000.. since then, I've updated the map and leaned out boost onset areas, but there is minimal if any change to spool.

regarding temps it was a hot day, 85 degree ambient..

I beleive that this is close to the best response from the 91-79, which is very impressive for such a large turbo; still better than many others that I've seen; my point with the 4088 comparison, was merely that it spools faster. This isn't a big suprise as the 91-79 is significantly larger.

more logs to come.
FYI, peak torque is where you need it to go rich before that I run it 14-13.5 afr, is that how you have you map now? If so have a log? ...your logs aren't super rich on spool up I'm just sayin A little leaning out would help a bit , i am used to E85 btw so 12.0 afr is almost fully rich for me, I run 11.75 @ peak tq no richer...E85 ftw. E85 will help spool a bit too...We need to see some more logs than just one too. i have had spool up change 300rpm in different logs from different days , or one logs during the hot day and one at night and the night logs usually show a good difference- this is just how turbocharged applications respond to weather...Throw the logs up from the leaner pulls,I wanna see 25 degree temp difference is pretty big too ,I thought you said it was only a 10 degree diff? I think with some more testing you will start leaning toward the bw lol
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Old 05-20-2010, 11:44 PM   #265
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Btw syoung I'm just saying all this bc I really like your setup and I hope you can get the bw too spool the same or at least really close to the same as the 4088... You know your going to wanna keep the turbo with the bigger power capabilities... Are you going to let Phil tune both turbos or just one? Don't rule the bw out just yet bro!
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:10 AM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazmak24 View Post
subscribed,for results.you will probably be done way before me.my kit is still 4 weeks out.
i ordered full=race kit with 83-75 1.00 a/r.i will also be on e85 coupled with a high compression longblock from element tuning.although i wont be pushing it past 28/29 psi.
I actually got an 83-75 as well. I decided to get an 83-75 with .91 a/r and an 88-75 with a 1.00 a/r. I'll try both turbos with both hotsides and have 4 combinations to try out. Should be a good comparison between spool up and top end power.
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Old 05-21-2010, 11:49 AM   #267
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I have an 83-75 1.00 a/r coming in along with a fully built long block. It should be interesting to see us compare results even though mine isn't a Full-Race kit.
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Old 05-21-2010, 04:22 PM   #268
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Not only that but it is custom made to your heads and port job. Should be a good set up. I just hope mine does not spool tooooo much later than the 88-75. But judging from the 91-79 above, mine should be just fine. I can live with 22 psi by 4700.
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Old 05-21-2010, 06:26 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06rexwagon View Post
I actually got an 83-75 as well. I decided to get an 83-75 with .91 a/r and an 88-75 with a 1.00 a/r. I'll try both turbos with both hotsides and have 4 combinations to try out. Should be a good comparison between spool up and top end power.
that is badass to have both.geoff was telling me to go 88-75, but i thought it was too big for my goals.i cant wait to see you're results now.

Last edited by jazmak24; 05-27-2010 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 05-21-2010, 07:05 PM   #270
TDagen
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^yeah cam obviously doesn't play games ... If I had two turbos I would be a wreck ... I'd be changing them like the weather ... ... "weekends here better put the big one on"
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Old 05-22-2010, 07:09 AM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06rexwagon View Post
I actually got an 83-75 as well. I decided to get an 83-75 with .91 a/r and an 88-75 with a 1.00 a/r. I'll try both turbos with both hotsides and have 4 combinations to try out. Should be a good comparison between spool up and top end power.
Cool! But why didn't you get the 1.06 a/r hotside?

IIRC Geoff calls the 1.00 a/r a 'weird' housing and the 1.00 is not T4 based either right?

Oh well..
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:29 AM   #272
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The 1.00 is a T4 sized housing.

From their website on the 83-75:

Full-Race recommends the 1.00 A/R modified to 3" Vband for boost levels over 25 psi
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Old 05-23-2010, 01:55 AM   #273
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gt4088r vs 91-79 at 21 psi ..

Please note, the 91-79 makes more torque and will flow more than the 4088r above 25 psi. Although, this shouldn't be taken as gospel, rather a quantitative back-to-back comparison with an identical setup (e.g. motor) identical timing values .. albeit the 91-79 pull as made with 20 degree higher ambient temp, which likely accounts for the difference in power.

What the plot does not communcate is that even thought the 91-79 makes more torque, it does so with slower transient response (feels laggier below 4500 RPM than the 4088r)


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Old 05-23-2010, 12:20 PM   #274
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Let's see the log for that airboy, logs shows more than that plot... To me it looks like the 91-79 is clearly spooling faster than the 4088 in that set of logs. This is probably an example of a log where the 4088 had a bad log ( pulled timing , weather , really could be anything, like I said my logs on the 30r would change sometimes if I did the log during day vs night ect... I have heard that The Borg Warner comes back into boost between shifts much faster than the Garrett BB, that's what I'm looking for... If I'm racing I know imgoing to be racing and can keep the engine at an rpm that will have the turbo ready to roll, or brake boost so im not worried about the transiet response ( turbo lag) but you cannot control the boost between shifts... Have you noticed this with the bw between shifts at all syoung?
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Old 05-26-2010, 04:24 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beetspeed View Post
Cool! But why didn't you get the 1.06 a/r hotside? IIRC Geoff calls the 1.00 a/r a 'weird' housing and the 1.00 is not T4 based either right?

-on the borgwarner 83-75 and 88-75 i prefer the 1.00 a/r, this is an outstanding housing.
-on the 91-79 the 1.10 a/r is my choice

for the *Garretts* the 1.00 is a funky housing and the 1.06 is the one to use. The garrett housings are VERY different from the BW housings!
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