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Old 12-17-2010, 02:05 PM   #1301
manitou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
lol....i have very little knowledge and experience with TS.

i had just never heard someone comment on a WG and spool in the same sentence.

i would think the fastest spool would come with the WG shut....therefore its size is irrelavant...with regards to spool. However, when it comes to boost creep, boost control, spring sizes, etc then the wg size and position all matter.......i had just never heard it referenced to spool. Im probably wrong.

I think the biggest advantage of the EFR INTWG is that the flow enters the turbine parallel with the exhaust flow......and not perpendicular to it like current int wg's. Im assuming this decreases the pressure ratio across the turbine and allows it to work easier and thus gives performance more comparable to extwg's than current intwg's.



but boost creep isnt "spool".......
OK yes, maybe I misstated my post. I also thought that by having a large enough wastegate vs. one that may be too small, that it then also provides better breathing for the motor when open Then when the WG does shut the higher flow will help with spool. maybe this is flawed thinking? I do know that these EFR gates intercept the gas flow at a lesser angle and more parallel to the exhaust flow which will cause less turbulence. This should assist in the spool, no?
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:13 PM   #1302
manitou
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opps, double post. it's busy today!
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:30 PM   #1303
Bariga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitou View Post
OK yes, maybe I misstated my post. I also thought that by having a large enough wastegate vs. one that may be too small, that it then also provides better breathing for the motor when open Then when the WG does shut the higher flow will help with spool. maybe this is flawed thinking? I do know that these EFR gates intercept the gas flow at a lesser angle and more parallel to the exhaust flow which will cause less turbulence. This should assist in the spool, no?
WG help spool?
Read books http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wastegate
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:37 PM   #1304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raffi@full-race View Post
Not to mention less room required for the 38mm compared to the 44mm.

All of our EWG twin scroll suby kits have dual 38mm provisions. Works flawlessly.
I have dual 38 mvs's for my evo and they are tiny compared to the old 44 i ran on the sti.
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:46 PM   #1305
manitou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bariga View Post
WG help spool?
Read books http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wastegate
lol, hey thanks!
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:01 PM   #1306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2oiroc

I have dual 38 mvs's for my evo and they are tiny compared to the old 44 i ran on the sti.
You'd think the difference between 6mm would be minimal... But that's not the case.. Not to mention a considerable price discrepancy especially when 2 are required.. More convenient in every way..
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:35 PM   #1307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raffi@full-race View Post
Just received word that we will also fabricate fabricate a dual purpose downpipe for those interested for an additional fee and would be a special build. Email me for any additional info.
I just see this as a cost effective option if anyone decided to go from EWG to IWG or vice versa without having to purchase a second down pipe or if you went EWG EFR, then you could buy the shorter down pipe and adapter from the start to leave your options open to go IWG EFR in the future. Glad they have the option now. Since test data between configurations and different a/r sizes hasn't been done on Subies yet it makes the adapter a good option.

Besides this does BW plan on making different sized a/r housings for IWG and EWG?
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:47 PM   #1308
EtoS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by methaddict View Post
Besides this does BW plan on making different sized a/r housings for IWG and EWG?
http://www.full-race.com/store/turbo...670-turbo.html

It seems so. If you go to the drop down box there's a higher AR with no IWG. This is how most of the turbos are setup.
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:52 PM   #1309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EtoS View Post
http://www.full-race.com/store/turbo...670-turbo.html

It seems so. If you go to the drop down box there's a higher AR with no IWG. This is how most of the turbos are setup.
I meant different sized a/r housings in each configuration. There's only one size in IWG and one size in EWG. More like .92 a/r EWG housing and a 1.05 a/r in an IWG housing.
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Old 12-20-2010, 05:16 PM   #1310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by methaddict View Post
I meant different sized a/r housings in each configuration. There's only one size in IWG and one size in EWG. More like .92 a/r EWG housing and a 1.05 a/r in an IWG housing.
These are just the inital housings offered. In the future there will be more options. At least thats what i read.
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:38 PM   #1311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2oiroc

These are just the inital housings offered. In the future there will be more options. At least thats what i read.
I'm thinking there will be aswell.. Down the road..

Methaddict, I think it is a good idea for us to have an adaptable downpipe, but just to reiterate, it will be at an additional cost and definitely not something that will be common build. We'll just have to wait and see. The market for these turbos will be large, so it might be a necessity.
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:49 PM   #1312
FuJi K
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I suck at reading compressor maps...

Which EFR is closest to a 30R turbo? Would it flow the same or more air at lower boost pressures with the billet wheel? Lets say 20psi range, does it push more air or same???
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:03 AM   #1313
n2oiroc
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Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
I suck at reading compressor maps...

Which EFR is closest to a 30R turbo? Would it flow the same or more air at lower boost pressures with the billet wheel? Lets say 20psi range, does it push more air or same???
30r is between the 6758 and the 7064. i would imagine the 6758 would spool a bit quicker but not make quite as much power and the 7064 would spool very close to the 30r and make more power.
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:17 AM   #1314
jkopinga
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Fuji,

It seems that the EFR 7064 would be closest to a "normal" GT3076R whereas the EFR 7670 is closer to the GTX3076R turbo.

A EFR 7064 with ambient (14.52 psi) intake pressure flows about 360 g/s air @ 2.4 pressure ratio which equals your 20 PSI which equals roughly 47.6 lb/min

GT3076R at the same 2.4 pressure ratio flows roughly 51 lb/min which is more. However the turbine wheel is smaller 60mm vs. EFRs' 64mm so perhaps MAP vs EGBP is better on the EFR thus flowing more in real life. It has to be tested to be sure.

The EFR 7670 at 2.4 pressure ratio flows roughly 390 g/s which equals the GT3076R more at that particular pressure but I'm quite sure with the 70mm turbine wheel EGBP must be a lot lower upping effective VE by quite a lot and thus making more power.

Fuji, you don't suck at reading compressor maps I'm sure The biggest problem is that the pressure ratios don't always match directly with boost pressure as you may draw a slight vacuum on the intake tract. Keep this is mind! Another thing is that the turbine diameter and housing will affect EGBP and thus effective or dynamic VE whatever you want to call it.

Cheers,

Jasper Kopinga
CS Racing
Taiwan.
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Old 12-24-2010, 01:34 AM   #1315
FuJi K
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Thanks!

Really, I've tried trying to read the compressor maps back in the day, like back when I was actually 16yrs old. Did the math, and etc, but it never came out right... lol Of course 9yrs later now and I just haven't really put time into trying to overcome it.
One of these days I'll look at a few websites and try to master reading it and knowing what's what. The wealth of my knowledge is the interwebs thus far. Last thing automotive was in HighSchool and nothing further yet for education. Mostly hands-on at the moment and trial and error.

Thanks again!
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Old 12-24-2010, 03:46 AM   #1316
Nuke209
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...told you
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Old 12-24-2010, 03:26 PM   #1317
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Quick and dirty way to read something from a compressor maps:

1. Pick a reasonable boost level, like for example 22psi.
2. Convert to pressure ratio: (22 + 14.7) / 14.7 = 2.5
3. Find that pressure ratio on the map's vertical axis
4. Look to the right along that line, 'til you find the right-side edge of the map*
5. How many lb/min is that? (it's on the bottom axis)
6. Multiply by 10 to get a rough estimate of crank horsepower**
7. Multiply by 0.8 to get a rough estimate of wheel horsepower***

Not exact, but it will get you into the ballpark. The EFR compressor maps don't have lb/min numbers on the bottom axis, so you have to do an extra conversion.

* This assumes a reasonable cut-off on the map, usually between 65 and 70% efficiency.
** Maybe x9 for Subarus
*** Dynojet.

Last edited by NSFW; 12-24-2010 at 11:28 PM. Reason: divide by 10? :facepalm:
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Old 12-24-2010, 06:37 PM   #1318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
Quick and dirty way to read something from a compressor maps:

1. Pick a reasonable boost level, like for example 22psi.
2. Convert to pressure ratio: (22 + 14.7) / 14.7 = 2.5
3. Find that pressure ratio on the map's vertical axis
4. Look to the right along that line, 'til you find the right-side edge of the map*
5. How many lb/min is that? (it's on the bottom axis)
6. Divide by 10 to get a rough estimate of crank horsepower**
7. Multiply by 0.8 to get a rough estimate of wheel horsepower***

Not exact, but it will get you into the ballpark. The EFR compressor maps don't have lb/min numbers on the bottom axis, so you have to do an extra conversion.

* This assumes a reasonable cut-off on the map, usually between 65 and 70% efficiency.
** Maybe x9 for Subarus
*** Dynojet.
-multiply by 10 to get chp

I have a few of the EFR turbo comp maps in lbs/min
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Old 12-24-2010, 11:30 PM   #1319
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Originally Posted by LittleBlueGT View Post
-multiply by 10 to get chp

I have a few of the EFR turbo comp maps in lbs/min
Yes, multiply. My bad.
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:21 AM   #1320
iheartwrxSTI
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To make this simple and to the point. I want a 600whp capable efr turbo on a dyno that a stock sti is 210whp.
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:37 AM   #1321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartwrxSTI View Post
To make this simple and to the point. I want a 600whp capable efr turbo on a dyno that a stock sti is 210whp.
8374 for sure
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:51 AM   #1322
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Originally Posted by Nuke209

8374 for sure
Great where can I order one from.
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Old 12-27-2010, 10:31 AM   #1323
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call up full race
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:52 PM   #1324
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Originally Posted by iheartwrxSTI View Post
Great where can I order one from.
http://tinyurl.com/29xjsys
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:11 PM   #1325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke209
call up full race
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron
Called full race and got it taken care of. Thanks
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