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Old 03-13-2010, 08:13 AM   #1
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Default S4, Less Motor, More Grip, and It All Makes Sense



SETTLED IN The S4, once Audiís hard-edged performance sedan, now falls in the middle position of the A4 line. More Photos Ľ



Quote:
ONCE upon a time ó say, around 2004 ó the 340-horsepower S4 was Audiís 8-cylinder answer to the mighty BMW M3. It seemed pretty crazy at the time, a little car like an A4 running around with a V-8 under the hood.

But soon, the Great German Horsepower Wars went nuclear: Audi rolled out the 418-horsepower RS4, and BMW introduced a V-8-powered M3. Further down the line, BMWís lesser 3 Series models were also fortified, with the BMW 335i getting a twin-turbocharged 6-cylinder good for 300 horsepower.

This left the S4 competing against the 335i, while the RS4 took on the M3. Aligned to this revised hierarchy, the new 2010 S4 has a bit less power than the old S4, a bit more power than the new BMW 335is, and exactly the same output ó 333 horsepower ó as the previous-generation M3.

You follow?

In accordance with its new role as the middle child of the A4 lineup, the S4 is entirely more sensible than its predecessor. The V-8 is gone, replaced by a supercharged direct-injection V-6. Also gone is the V-8ís gas-guzzler tax; with the dual-clutch automated manual transmission, the S4 is rated 18 m.p.g. in town and a relatively respectable 28 m.p.g. on the highway, according to the Environmental Protection Agency.

The price is down, too. With a base sticker of $46,725, this S4 costs 9 percent less than the last one. Come on down to Crazy Ferdinandís Bargain Haus, where you will see Audi prices drop like an ill-prepared hiker from the top of the Weisshorn!

So Audi has downsized the cylinder count, lifted the fuel economy and cut the price. Is this austerity, or what?
Not exactly, because the S4 is also faster. With either the 6-speed manual transmission or the 7-speed automated manual, the S4 will sprint from a stop to 60 miles per hour in a bit less than five seconds, about a half-second quicker than the old S4 with the V-8.

In fact, this supercharged V-6 feels more potent than the V-8 although its horsepower is nominally less. Thatís because you had to wind the V-8 to within a hair of the rev limiter to extract its power, while the V-6ís forced induction helps it pump out piles of accessible torque at low engine speeds. The 3-liter V-6, despite giving up 1.2 liters of displacement to the V-8, produces 325 pound-feet ó 23 more than the 8-cylinder could muster. And you can feel it.

In any previous Audi review (save for those of the midengine R8), this would be the place where thereíd be a caveat about the handling. Audis are based on front-wheel-drive platforms, so they have a pronounced front-end weight bias. This means that, when driven hard, the front tires will want to push wide in corners.

But I drove the new S4 on a tight road course, and I donít think itís an exaggeration to say that this is the first Audi sedan that truly dances. Its all comes down to the ďsport rear differential,Ē an $1,100 option that any serious driver should consider mandatory.

As in cars like the Saab Turbo X, BMW X6 and Mitsubishi Evo, Audiís rear differential can apportion extra torque to the outside rear wheel in corners, effectively throttle-steering the rear of the car and tucking the nose in toward your intended line. The effect is transformational. The car seems to work better the harder you drive, powering from corner to corner with supreme confidence. It feels a lot like an upmarket Evo, in that the S4 always flatters your driving skills, its trick all-wheel-drive system compensating for all but the most egregious mistakes.

Iíd be interested in comparing the lap times of the 2010 S4 and the old RS4, but Iíd wager that on a tight track, the S4ís muscular torque curve and superior handling would more than make up for its horsepower deficit.

When youíre not exploring the limits of physics, the S4ís interior is a comfortable place to while away a commute, with all the expensive-looking materials that are expected of a car in this price range ó and especially in an Audi. On the options menu you would probably want the $1,000 ďsilk nappaĒ leather seats, which look and feel as if they belong in a six-figure sports car. The 14-speaker 505-watt Bang & Olufsen sound system is a bargain at $850.

But the navigation system (which includes a rearview camera and parking sensors) is a staggering $2,500. Iíd rather buy a portable $80 GPS and hire a helicopter to follow me around and radio down when itís all right to back up.

Based on all of the new S4ís superlatives, youíd think the old one was an ill-handling, gas-guzzling blunt instrument, the German reincarnation of a 1970 Chevelle SS 454. But the 1970 Chevelle SS had its charm. And so did the V-8-powered S4.

And that leads to my only significant gripe about the new S4 that, along with all the qualitative improvements, Audi may have inadvertently given the car a bravado-ectomy. With the demise of the 3.2 V-6 model, the S4 is now the midrange A4, slotted between the 4-cylinder 2.0T and the inevitable RS4. And it seems Audi is saving the overt aggression for the RS flagship.

For example, the flat-spoke S4 wheels that defined the first two generations (and evoked the gorgeous alloys on an old Bugatti) are gone, replaced by split-spoke wheels that look nice enough but seem a little generic. The bombastic V-8 exhaust note that consistently startled onlookers ó that little car is making that noise? ó is history.

And if I may, letís have a moment of silence for the seven horsepower that are no longer with us. I know the difference is academic, but itís symbolic: performance cars are supposed to become more powerful, not less. Given that this is a supercharged motor, Audi could easily have tinkered with the boost to arrive at, say, 341 horsepower.

Instead, it decided to take a small step back, sacrificing those seven horsepower to tell a story of sober restraint and responsibility. This seems just a little bit contrived: I like to imagine that horsepower numbers are dictated by the engineering, not the public relations.

Still, the redesigned S4 is superior to its predecessor in just about every other way. Itís quicker and less expensive, it gets better mileage and it finally offers handling that challenges BMW. But Iíll still miss that noise.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/14/au...er=rss&emc=rss
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Old 03-13-2010, 09:03 AM   #2
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no mention of the weight?
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Old 03-13-2010, 10:03 AM   #3
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Default but but the V8 sounds so cool




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Audi RS5 (2010) first official video


http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Se...fficial-video/
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Old 03-13-2010, 10:00 PM   #4
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I dig this car... a lot.
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:12 PM   #5
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no mention of the weight?
According to Audi's website the S4 with dsg is 3924lbs and manual is 3847lbs... ouch
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:50 PM   #6
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According to Audi's website the S4 with dsg is 3924lbs and manual is 3847lbs... ouch
Not much different than a BMW M3 or a 335XI.
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Old 03-14-2010, 12:11 AM   #7
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Audi has hit a homerun with this car, cannot wait to see what they come up with for a new RS4

So tempted to drop the 08 STI for this s4 but not until this economy improves
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Old 03-14-2010, 11:21 AM   #8
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S4, S5 are my dream vehicles. Quick, powerful, AWD, and incredibly fuel efficient. That is great engineering and I hope that other car companies can do what Audi has done here with the 3.0L TFSI.
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Old 03-14-2010, 11:31 AM   #9
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I have driven both the manual and auto, loved them both. Truly fun to drive in spirited fashion.
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Old 03-15-2010, 06:27 AM   #10
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Where the **** is the Avant version in the US???
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Old 03-15-2010, 06:38 AM   #11
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the b8 s4 is an awesome car. but i want my s4 avant. damn you audi usa.

audi a4 now outsells bmw 3 in germany. bmw has become complacent.
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Old 03-15-2010, 09:03 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by bani111 View Post
bmw has become complacent.


Buy all means, please explain this. The S4 used to be an M3 fighter. BMW has become so "complacement" that the S4 now competes with the 335, and the more expensive RS4 doesn't perform as well as the M3. Or just barely.

Hardly seems complacent. I wouldn't call some questionable styling being complacent. If you look at the vehicles, especially from a performance standpoint, Audi is MOST CERTAINLY the one not moving forward. Whether that is a good or a bad thing. But it's not like BMW is sitting back and watching, their changes to styling, powerplants, etc. have been much more dramatic than the A4's.

60+ hp gains in the uprated 3 series along with unique styling changes, and an 80 hp gain in the M3, etc. is complacent? Again, maybe the wrong direction...

Last edited by SoapBox; 03-15-2010 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 03-15-2010, 09:16 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post


Buy all means, please explain this. The S4 used to be an M3 fighter. BMW has become so "complacement" that the S4 now competes with the 335, and the more expensive RS4 doesn't perform as well as the M3. Or just barely.

The new RS4 hasn't been released, so unless you have a crystal ball, you have no idea how well it performs or what its price bracket will be. Something tells me the boys over at Audi know enough to make a car that performs as well as, or better than the M3 while remaining competitively priced. If you read he article you'd understand that Audi has realigned their fleet so the S4 is not the M3 competitor but the 335 equivalent.

It's OK to be a fanboy, but at least get your facts straight.
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Old 03-15-2010, 09:29 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Beowulf View Post
The new RS4 hasn't been released, so unless you have a crystal ball, you have no idea how well it performs or what its price bracket will be. Something tells me the boys over at Audi know enough to make a car that performs as well as, or better than the M3 while remaining competitively priced. If you read he article you'd understand that Audi has realigned their fleet so the S4 is not the M3 competitor but the 335 equivalent.

It's OK to be a fanboy, but at least get your facts straight.
Did you read my post? It was not pro-BMW.

Yes, well aware the RS4 isn't out yet. So it could outperform the M3, but likely at an increased price. We'll see. Regardless...

Yes, I said Audi has realigned the S4 to compete with the 335, thanks for reiterating. That's the point. That was done IN RESPONSE to the large increase in power the 335 received. How is that complacency? One car stays put while the other makes a large performance leap. That's the opposite of complacency.

I'm not a fanboy at all, did you not read my post?

I said BMW may have made all the wrong choices with their cars. Hence the reduced sales. But to call them complacent?

Complacent means stagnant, i.e. not updating, changing etc.

BMW clearly has been making large updates to the 3 series in both styling and powertrains. Again, perhaps they were not for the better. But regardless, compared to the tweeks the A4 has had, and the stagnant power plant outputs, etc., BMW is certainly not the "complacent" one.

Jesus, I just made a thread about how great I thought the new S4 was...

I like Audi's lineup over BMW's. However, saying BMW has been complacent is plain wrong. That was the statement I had issue with, if you read my post.

Last edited by SoapBox; 03-15-2010 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 03-15-2010, 10:56 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Rodeoflipper1818 View Post
Where the **** is the Avant version in the US???
Gone the way of the Legacy wagon. Most wagons have been dropped, though honestly with the way SUVs are dying off and everyone's buying hatchbacks and crossovers... maybe they'll return.

Maybe.
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Old 03-16-2010, 03:21 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Siper2 View Post
Gone the way of the Legacy wagon. Most wagons have been dropped, though honestly with the way SUVs are dying off and everyone's buying hatchbacks and crossovers... maybe they'll return.

Maybe.
my wife was on the fence when we bought the saabaru. now she won't look at a car unless it has 5 doors.
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Old 08-24-2010, 09:22 AM   #17
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Default Road Test: 2010 Audi S4 3.0TFSI







Quote:
S4. To Audi enthusiasts, this model designation has deep meaning. The S4 is widely considered to be one of the finest sports sedans available, with it's excellent blend of comfort and performance, safety and all weather sure footedness, luxury and sportyness. Sold in various forms and body styles since 1992, the original version was based on the 100 sedan of the day, which was the larger body style that ultimately was renamed A6 (at which point that S4 variant morphed into the S6). It was also at this point that began a 6 year gap where Audi did not produce an S4 model. Not until 2000, when Audi introduced to the American market an all new S4, based on the B5 A4 sedan, did we enjoy an S4.

With its twin turbo V6 engine and 6 speed manual gearbox, the B5 S4 was tremendously fast, and highly sought after by enthusiasts and tuners alike. With simple tuning it was possible to extract well over 300hp from the 2.7 liter mill. People scooped these cars up, tweaked them for power and handling, and loved them.

This latest version based on the brand new B8 chassis which is shared by the A5/S5 coupe and of course the A4 sedan and Avant. This platform is widely regarded as being one of the finest handling Audi have produced to date thanks in part to the rearward location of the engine and transmission compared to previous Audis. The carís balance is remarkably neutral, there is absolutely no understeer until pushed extremely hard.


We loved the B8 A4 when we drove it earlier this year, and the S4 phenomenal. Externally, the S4 has a few differences, namely a deeper spoiler on the trunklid, deeper side skirts, and front chin spoiler. Itís a lot more aggressive looking than the A4, but itís not overdone. With the stock sports suspension, the S4 sits low on its 19 inch S4 specific wheels. The overall package is perfectly balanced visually, and itís distinctive enough to differentiate it from itís ďlesserĒ A4 brethren.

Obviously the S4 is more than just a great looking sports sedan. Inside, the cabin is fitted with S4 specific seats, which are high-back, and more deeply bolstered, and extremely comfortable and supportive. Lateral support is excellent given the higher capabilities of the S4ís chassis. And theyíre just beautiful to look at. Covered in either leather with Alcantara inserts, or in the case of our tester, Audiís lovely Silk Napa Leather, they enhance the sporty nature of the car. We took a 6 hour road trip in our S4, and it was perfectly comfortable the whole time. In fact, after a whole day out in the sun, on our feet at Waterfest 16, the 6 hours back home was completely comfortable, refreshing in fact.

Part of the comfort is the seats obviously, but the ride is excellent for a sports sedan, never jarring, never harsh, but at the same time, always eager, always in sync with how the car is being driven. On the highway, itís smooth and comfortable, not floaty, not bouncy. Throw the car at some twisties though, and the car responds with very little body roll, no wallow, no understeer. Itís incredibly easy to handle at speed, thanks to the Servotronic variable steering. As with other Audi models, itís perfectly weighted, never overly boosted, and yet still manages to transmit feedback from the tires directly to the driverís hands. With ESP turned off, the S4 rotates nicely at turn in, and holds its line through the turn perfectly. The quattro all wheel drive allows application of power long before the wheels are all pointed straight, and helps pull the car through the turn incredibly quickly. In fact, the S4, with itís 40/60 front/rear power distribution feels rather like a rear wheel drive car much of the time, without the worry of nasty handling characteristics at the limit of adhesion.

A performance car wouldnít be complete without great brakes, and the S4 doesnít disappoint. Fitted with large and powerful vented discs front and rear, with ABS and other various safety features such as pressure assist in panic stops, the pedal feel is excellent, and the brakes are very strong. Even under heavy braking, we detected no fade, and very little squat from the suspension.

Our tester was equipped with the 6 speed manual transmission. The ratios are perfectly matched to the torque of the supercharged engine. First gear is short enough to dig the S4 out of the hole, without bogging. The clutch action lacks a certain amount of feel; it takes a few miles to get used to its take-up. The shifter had a much more positive feel than the A4 we drove earlier this year, and it was less notchy. Miles and use really seem help the shifter mechanism loosen up, as our S4 had about 2000 more miles than the A4 did. Once used to the feel and action of the clutch and shifter though, itís a lot of fun to row through the gears in this car, though in all honestly, not entirely necessary given the incredible flexibility of the 3.0TFSI engine. You can easily keep the car in 6th gear, and just loaf along at just over idle, the engine does not protest at all.


Audiís 3 liter supercharged and direct injected V6 is a thing of beauty. Itís incredibly smooth, has tons of low end torque, and amazingly enough is very rev-happy. Unlike a turbocharged engine, there is no lag from depressing the throttle pedal to feeling a surge of power. Unlike a larger naturally aspirated engine, it doesnít require high revs to make maximum power. The supercharger itself is silent, even with the windows open. The exhaust note is decidedly V6 in nature, though it has a nice baritone with a very slight rasp at high revs. With a torque peak of 325 lb/ft beginning at 2900 rpm and ending at 5300 rpm, and maximum power of 333 hp from 5500-7000, this car is hysterically fun to drive. No, thereís no huge rush of power, because thereís so much power available in such a broad range of the rev band. But, keep your right foot planted, and the car positively hurls itself forward down the road. The power is so broad that you can skip from 1st to 6th and just drive. Yes, you read right. We did it a few times in casual driving. On the highway, there is almost no reason to ever shift out of 6th, thanks to the electric motor quality of the power delivery. Seriously, if you happen run it down to 40mph in 6th, it accelerates hard and smooth back up to 65 and more

Audi say the S4 3.0TFSI will run from 0 to 62 in 4.9, which we know to be quite conservative. Top speed is limited to 155. Whatís great about this new engine is, itís quite frugal. We averaged 27 mpg on a long highway drive, which we considered to be excellent. EPA estimates are 18 and 27, which obviously are a far cry better than the former 4.2 liter engine, which we consider to be very thirsty.

The S4 has always been the kind of car that is perfect for driving to the track on the weekends, for an Audi Club performance driving event perhaps, and then Sunday, it could be used to bring your family to church. The rest of the week, you can drive to work in perfect luxurious comfort. Weíve always loved the S4 for this reason. Itís got the power and handling of a bona fide sports sedan, while remaining eminently useful for day to day use. But now, dare we say, itís a little more grown up. Itís bigger, roomier, quieter, and smoother than itís ever been. Itís got the electro-gadgets, like the incredibly cool MMI, AMI, rain sensing wipers, dark sensing lights, self dimming mirrors, awesome audio system (you can even watch DVD movies as long as your stationary), bluetooth, and on and on.

Itís got everything that we want in a sports sedan. The only thing we're left wanting, is one to find a more permanent home in the AudiWorld garage!
http://www.audiworld.com/news/10/roadtest-2010-s4/













































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Old 08-24-2010, 10:11 AM   #18
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drool ... yellow avant please!

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Old 08-25-2010, 01:11 AM   #19
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Mmmmm. Yummy... MT. Thank you Audi.

I like how the window lines kinda reverted back to the B5 (97-01).
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:22 AM   #20
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The Audi S4 is a nice car, nice engine, nice interior, but the $46K base price is just too steep. Add on a few options and price will climb to over $50K. I was able to price an S4 on the Audi site to over $64K. Am I the only one that thinks that's crazy?

I'm currently researching my '05 LGT replacement and I considered the S4, but price is just too high for what one is getting. There are other vehicles out there with similar or better performance and similar or better features for significantly less.

I've driven many luxury vehicles, few stand out and even fewer justify their price.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:01 AM   #21
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The Audi S4 is a nice car, nice engine, nice interior, but the $46K base price is just too steep. Add on a few options and price will climb to over $50K. I was able to price an S4 on the Audi site to over $64K. Am I the only one that thinks that's crazy?

I'm currently researching my '05 LGT replacement and I considered the S4, but price is just too high for what one is getting. There are other vehicles out there with similar or better performance and similar or better features for significantly less.

I've driven many luxury vehicles, few stand out and even fewer justify their price.
Don't agree. You're getting more car than the old S4, and it's cheaper. On average, what is it, $5-6k more than a 335xi? Sounds about right.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:01 AM   #22
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There are other vehicles out there with similar or better performance and similar or better features for significantly less.
Such as?
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:26 AM   #23
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I think the S4 is a steal. There are pickups that cost more... yes PICKUPs.

In a day when you can option a Lexus ES to $43k (they charge for wheel locks???) the S4 is a lot of car for the money.

-Mike.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:31 AM   #24
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3.0tfsi S4 + exhaust + Chip = 430+hp. f*ck your m3.

The s4 used to compete with the M3 when the M3 wasnt 80 grand. Bottom line is BMW adjusted the pricing point of the m3 through the years upwards towards the RS market. Audi left the S/RS price points where they are. No shame. The RS competes with the M and the S competes with the 335i/is.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:01 AM   #25
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3.0tfsi S4 + exhaust + Chip = 430+hp. f*ck your m3.

The s4 used to compete with the M3 when the M3 wasnt 80 grand.
To your first point. F*ck your warranty.

To your second point: $80k?

MSRP of a base M3 is $55k. Compare that to the $46k to keep things in perspective. Considering it's (the M3) is every bit as fast as an $80k 911 around a track, I'd consider that reasonable for a German sedan.

Last edited by REX8; 08-25-2010 at 10:06 AM.
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It all makes sense now! BBkidLy Off-Topic 3 05-30-2006 05:19 AM
It all makes sense now... Mikkito Off-Topic 14 08-18-2005 11:05 PM
It all makes perfect sense - Executive Order 13303 WRSport Political Playground 15 08-01-2003 02:27 PM
It kinda makes sense now... sherifx General Community 11 11-21-2002 12:24 AM


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