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Old 03-16-2010, 12:47 PM   #1
DroppedClutch
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Default Cost being inconsequential, what catch can/AOS would you run?

Help! I'm stuck in my obsessive research loop... loop... loop...
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:20 PM   #2
ASU
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Goodspeed FTW!
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:40 PM   #3
Evil Imports
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I have the ixiz concept one.

I personally like the fact that he shows videos proving that it works the way he says it does right on his website, I don't believe anyone else who makes one does that.
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Old 03-16-2010, 01:47 PM   #4
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This is the one I will be trying when I get around to buying it:

IxizAOSep - Air Oil Separator

http://www.ixizconcept.com/

http://wrxmodders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10101

I know Jay is running this unit on his purple car.

I like a lot of the more innovative parts coming out of smaller companies these days. FWIW, I don't think I fully believe the GrimmSpeed unit works as planned. I can explain why, but it's better to do in person with an engine bay to point to.

EDIT: DAMN! Jay beat me to it.
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Old 03-16-2010, 02:06 PM   #5
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The new Crawford AOS has a built in heater now.
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Old 03-16-2010, 02:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bObby View Post
The new Crawford AOS has a built in heater now.
Please explain in your own words why this is better
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Old 03-16-2010, 03:15 PM   #7
kpluiten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Imports View Post
Please explain in your own words why this is better
Quote:
Originally Posted by bObby View Post
You don't want your oil catching a chill and getting sick...


Herra frush.
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Old 03-16-2010, 03:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluiten View Post
This is the one I will be trying when I get around to buying it:

IxizAOSep - Air Oil Separator

http://www.ixizconcept.com/

http://wrxmodders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10101

I know Jay is running this unit on his purple car.

I like a lot of the more innovative parts coming out of smaller companies these days. FWIW, I don't think I fully believe the GrimmSpeed unit works as planned. I can explain why, but it's better to do in person with an engine bay to point to.

EDIT: DAMN! Jay beat me to it.
Do you mind explaining? The grimmspeed one has my interest.
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Old 03-16-2010, 04:58 PM   #9
kpluiten
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This is my theory based on my understanding of how it works. I could be off base, but I've spent a lot of time thinking about it. It's hard to ask questions because you just get ripped on by the 300+ people who bought it in the group buy.

The unit is designed to receive pressure from the heads and the crank case right? This pressure is in the form of air with vaporized oil (at elevated temperature). These fumes (for lack of a better term) are then routed the the central hub type unit on the oil filler tube. The flow is aided by a vacuum pulled on that junction by a line connected to the intake manifold. The idea is that the oil that is collected is cooled at the "hub" or junction point and condensed. It is then supposed to run down the filler tube and back into the crankcase. The problem I see with this is two fold.

1) the hub is not very large and therefore does not have a very big heat capacity. As a result it cannot cool the fumes enough to condense all the oil droplets and remove them from the air.

2) (the larget problem I see) the crank case which the oil fill tube connects to is where you are pulling fumes away from and it is at a positive pressure (test this by removing your fill cap and place your hand over it while the engine is being reved). Why would the oil be inclined to easily travel down the fill tube with all this positive pressure? Wouldn't the positive crank case pressure try to leave the crank case through the AOS the same as it does the PCV valve? I think this would just be giving you another crank case vent or sorts.

Look at it this way:



The incoming "dirty" air goes into the baffle area. It then travels into the crank case and then out through the "clean" air hole. Why would dirty crank case air that goes through the PVC valve not also try to travel through that "clean" air hole as well. The crank case as a whole is under pressure right? If I turn on the AC in my house and open one door and one window, the positive pressure is going to escape out both. And from there this "clean" air goes right back to your intake... but I don't think it's overly "clean".

I'm not saying the GS AOS doesn't have an effect, I just think it is not as effective as other designs.
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:05 PM   #10
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^^Yeah I've seen a lot of the same on iwsti.com. It's hard for people to take criticism - even if just asking tough questions - and also be objective about something when they've just spent $300+ .

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't believe the grimmspeed unit relies on cooling for separation. It simply wouldn't work because the unit is connected to the oil filler cap/valve covers which get really hot.

Regarding #1, I had similar concerns as you but this answered many of my questions: (mainly posts 735 and 739: http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-lite...thread-74.html. He explains that grimmspeed uses an impactor for separation. (I'm no saying this guy is 100% correct but grimmspeed is also posting in that thread too fwiw.)

Regarding #2, I have to agree with you here. It seems like it would just push more crankcase vapor from the oil fill through the a/o separator outlet to the turbo inlet. However, many people have posted picks of clear tubing with the grimmspeed unit and it clearly shows oil going in and not going out, so it must be effectively separating the oil from the air (that's all you're really looking for).

The only thing I'm still unsure of with the grimmspeed is how it works in racing conditions (it sounds like most of the testers were just on dd'ers), and how effective it is at separating the oil if you delete the pcv valve and basically route it like crawford does.
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:06 PM   #11
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I like the concept that Litespeed is using, although I plan to DIY and not install one for the heads. I believe the block and head breathers should NEVER be connected on the same can. Period.
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkscooby View Post
I like the concept that Litespeed is using, although I plan to DIY and not install one for the heads. I believe the block and head breathers should NEVER be connected on the same can. Period.

Why? Just curious.
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:22 PM   #13
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^ whether money is an issue or not, the absolute BEST way to do a setup is to run two completely separate systems. I think that the DIY setups from home depot or lowes using compressor inline filters work really well. This would cost you about $40 for two complete setups of the larger one for the crank and the smaller one for the heads, and this would leave you more money for other go fast parts. AOS are mainly for convenience more than they are a better working system. It just prevents you from having to worry about running low on the oil. Simple setups that cost WAY less may not look as clean as the Grimmspeed ones, but they function just as well...With that all said, I really like the Grimmspeed setup. I think it is a great idea on how to route things so it looks stock, but I am a big believer in running seperate setups. Thats just me though...10 people will give you 10 different answers...
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:26 PM   #14
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Ugggh, I closed this window before I finished typing.

The block and head vents are separate from the factory for a reason. WHy? It can be debated but I accept that Subaru and other manufacterts know what they are doing (although they may do things cheaply).

Now, Litespeed uses 2 cans and 2 check valves and removes the PCV. ONe can is for the block and one for the heads. I don't think you need the head can except in track applications as I have never seen or found oil in the head breather tubes. The check valves connect to the intake manifold and turbo inlet to always pull strong vacuum through the block can. During cruise the manifold has strong vacuum and during boost the turbo inlet does. Now I have no idea how good the actual cans are that Litespeed uses; most cans are empty, no baffling or swirl pots. Crawford, IXIZ, Grimmspeed all use soem sort of baffle to remove the oil from the air. I just dont like how any of them are plumbed.

I plan to DIY a setup using a cheap Ebay can like this- http://www.wrxfanatics.com/index.php?showtopic=59698 but plumb it like the Litespeed setup using check valves from McMaster Carr- http://www.mcmaster.com/#7775k64/=68xwmh
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Old 03-16-2010, 07:31 PM   #15
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from my experience, there isn't much blowby during cruising or off boost driving. Almost all the blowby is going to be under boost. You would have to have some pretty extreme clearances to NEED a catch can to be working under vacuum.
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Old 03-16-2010, 08:56 PM   #16
DroppedClutch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkscooby View Post
I plan to DIY a setup using a cheap Ebay can like this- http://www.wrxfanatics.com/index.php?showtopic=59698 but plumb it like the Litespeed setup using check valves from McMaster Carr- http://www.mcmaster.com/#7775k64/=68xwmh
In the event anyone wanted to use the same cans that Litespeed is using you can get them directly from Saikou Michi and save some money. They make a dual can, which could be promising for building the divorced system you subscribe to: http://www.saikoumichi.com/DC3_page.htm
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
from my experience, there isn't much blowby during cruising or off boost driving. Almost all the blowby is going to be under boost. You would have to have some pretty extreme clearances to NEED a catch can to be working under vacuum.
During cruise you are more concerned about products of combustion, relieve crankcase pressure and help ring sealing.
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:57 PM   #18
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One thing to consider with litespeed is that they're using a one way valve instead of a pcv valve (they're not the same). I'm not saying this is a problem but it's something to consider. I suggest reading the last couple pages of the thread I linked in post #10 if you're thinking of going with the litespeed kit. Talsnic has raised some interesting technical questions regarding that setup in that thread, but of course he's being drowned out by all the people who purchased the litespeed kit (people defending their purchase ).
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Old 03-17-2010, 11:44 AM   #19
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I did say (2) check (meaning one-way) valves with the Litespeed kit.
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:09 PM   #20
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I would recommend the one with a money back guarantee!

That way if it doesn’t work to your expectations you can get your money back.

Team Crawford
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Old 03-17-2010, 12:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford Performance View Post
I would recommend the one with a money back guarantee!

That way if it doesn’t work to your expectations you can get your money back.

Team Crawford
Had yours, Didn't fit anymore when i went rotated, Get out unless you are going to redesign it to fit in my car
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Imports View Post
Had yours, Didn't fit anymore when i went rotated, Get out unless you are going to redesign it to fit in my car
Send us the specks and we will see what we can do.

Team Crawford
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Old 03-17-2010, 02:58 PM   #23
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Sorry, not going to buy another one, I had yours, when i put my Turboxs Rotated kit up it would no longer fit to the pitch mount area because of the way the DP is, I sold that one and picked up the ixiz concept one, He has great support and helped with any problem or anything else i need

Unless you wanna give me one for free, there is no chance i am going to do it all again, You should make your product to work with different setups

If it fit with my rotated setup, i am sure i would still have it, As i didn't have any problems with it
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Old 03-17-2010, 04:42 PM   #24
Deuce Cam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkscooby View Post
I did say (2) check (meaning one-way) valves with the Litespeed kit.
I wasn't sure if you were responding to me or not.

If you were my point was they're using one way check valves (I know they have 2) instead of a calibrated pcv valve, but 1 of the one-way valves in their kit is basically being used in place of the stock pcv valve. The one way valves that litespeed uses (krankvent.com) has 2 settings, on or off (fully closed or fully open). The stock pcv valve is a calibrated orifice that's meant to provide a preset vacuum level on the crankcase. Also, the stock pcv valve isn't just an on/off switch; it closes during boost by remains open during vacuum - to varying degrees - depending on engine load. Talsnic describes this much better in the thread I linked.
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Old 03-17-2010, 05:57 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce Cam View Post
I wasn't sure if you were responding to me or not.

If you were my point was they're using one way check valves (I know they have 2) instead of a calibrated pcv valve, but 1 of the one-way valves in their kit is basically being used in place of the stock pcv valve. The one way valves that litespeed uses (krankvent.com) has 2 settings, on or off (fully closed or fully open). The stock pcv valve is a calibrated orifice that's meant to provide a preset vacuum level on the crankcase. Also, the stock pcv valve isn't just an on/off switch; it closes during boost by remains open during vacuum - to varying degrees - depending on engine load. Talsnic describes this much better in the thread I linked.
I understand how the stock PCV works. But with my 20g setup and the stock intake, I was sucking alot of oil out of the PCV on boost so it doesn't work very well at higher than stock boost. A check valve that opens at 0.3 psi and can hold closed at 100 psi should work much better.
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