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Old 05-31-2002, 02:33 PM   #1
8Complex

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Default Cheapest standalone ECU?

Really... I want to know what the absolute cheapest standalone ECU is that you can find.

What it needs :
- Ability to drive 4 high impedence injectors
- Ability to drive 2 ignitors (for Subaru coil packs with waste spark configuration)
- MAP sensor input (2 or 3 bar)
- Crank position sensor input
- Laptop programmability
- At most, 500rpm increments for tuning. The less, the better.
- Needs to work up to ~7500 rpm

Yeah, really, that's it. No need for correction maps, no need for other sensor inputs... nothing!

It can use any type of crank position sensor as it will have to be fabricated anyways, but must be able to use the stock Subaru Ignitor and Coilpack setup.

I realize that since we don't have distributors, the ECU's that work with direct-fire ignitions will be a bit tougher to come by, but I know they're still out there.
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Old 05-31-2002, 02:43 PM   #2
XT6Wagon
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Well I have a mic 3 for sale

you can find info on it here

http://www.perfectpower.com/Products/mic.asp

How about $600 including a MSD DIS-4HO box, which allows the MIC3 to run a coil pack w/o any other components. Mine came with a 2 bar I think.

Last edited by XT6Wagon; 05-31-2002 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 05-31-2002, 02:46 PM   #3
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The Link is probably the cheapest one that does everything that you need. It obviously can do other things (fans, AC, etc.), since it is a standalone ECU.

I believe that mine was $1200 from Andrew at AMR, and you'll need the seriallink for laptop tuning. www.carmodifications.com
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Old 05-31-2002, 03:55 PM   #4
8Complex

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Impreza Rider - No, cheaper. I can get a Haltech E6K for just over $1k, but I'm talking nearly the lowest, least option-ed POS you can find.

XT6 Wagon - Not bad, but still too many features.
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Old 05-31-2002, 04:14 PM   #5
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Well, I would say the GReddy E-Manage, but thats not a standalone ECU.

www.sdsefi.com is what I am looking at right now, as well as the Link 2. It's not exactly what your looking for, but I think it's the CHEAPEST solution, with the ability to tune ignition and fuel maps, as well as control extra injectors.


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Old 05-31-2002, 04:27 PM   #6
8Complex

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The problem with SDS EFI setups is that you have to go directly to the -F system if you don't have a distributor. That -F system starts around $1050. Plus it's still too complicated.
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:05 PM   #7
XT6Wagon
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Why too many features? Isn't cheap what you are looking for? Thats why I bought it in the first place.

oh and it does have a 2.5 bar MAP sensor.
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Old 05-31-2002, 05:42 PM   #8
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i just thought id throw up an FYI. re: injector's impedence. i forgot which one we currently use stock (high or low impedence). i recently got some RC 550cc injectors and found out that they are the wrong impedence for the Link2 that i want to install (would need to pay more to use them). but tehre is a very simple and sub $20 solution. i forgot the exact part number so im not going to post it up just yet but there is a resistor that you can use to make low impedence injectors run as high impedence. you just put in some simple resistors and thats it.


just thought id put that FYI in. if anyones interested i can post the part number as soon as i confirm which one it is.
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Old 05-31-2002, 06:22 PM   #9
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I really don't know of any other ECU manufacturers out there that would fit into the category your looking for, 8.

I did talk to a guy who got some sort of ECU from Prodrive, and he said it wasn't TOO expensive. I can't remember the name but i'll look a little bit more into it.


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Old 05-31-2002, 07:13 PM   #10
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XT6Wagon - I'm definitely not dismissing the MIC3... actually, it's still leading as of right now. Thing is, I'm looking at such a basic ECU that I'm not even sure it exists.

Andrew - Yeah, supposedly you can just throw some resistors in line with the injectors and get the right impedence in the line, but IIRC they were supposed to be less reliable that way. Not sure why though. I've got a set of high-impedence 440cc injectors sitting here, though, so I'm set on that front.

Graham - You're still thinking too high-class for me. I'm talking old-school, not even made with reliability of the motor in mind, type of ECU.

I've heard the Federal Mogul makes a real cheap ECU, but I wasn't able to find any information on their products at all.
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Old 05-31-2002, 10:19 PM   #11
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Used Apex'i Power FC's go for $700-850, which may be a good option if you get a jdm engine...still not as low as XT6's, though...plus laptop software is in Japanese, so you have to settle for the handheld controller instead. I have my controller mounted with Velcro next to my ebrake:
Attached Images
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Old 06-01-2002, 12:14 AM   #12
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Talking

I am selling my Wolf 3d. Offer me a fair price and I would probably be willing to sell it onto you. I am just looking to get rid of it right now since I don't need it.

It comes with the following:

Harness already made for the RS.
Pulley with the crank position sensor setup
ECU and controller

Basically this came off a RS-T, but I never used it because I was just to busy to put it in. If you are interested in it let me know. It already has a map for 550cc injectors. Also if you are interested I coudl contact the previous owner of it who had it in his car and he could probably help you out too.

Later,
Bill
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Old 06-01-2002, 12:20 AM   #13
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Cool

Besides the Wolf 3D, the Link Plus does everything you are looking for except it does not use the crank position sensor. I currently have a 3 Bar Map sensor running on my RS, even though I am going no where near 3 bars yet.

So far the car has run really strong and for daily driving it is great, it feels just like a stock RS except with a Turbo. He he...
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Old 06-01-2002, 04:57 AM   #14
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Well, the Greddy E Manage does almost everything you want it to, except I don't believe it can take a crank sensor input...

That right there is going to limit you to the usual suspects in the standalone field (Haltech, Wolf, TEC, etcetera)...

that one XT6 Wagon mentioned might be the way to go, and just ignore the extra features as much as possible.
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Old 06-01-2002, 08:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
I'm talking old-school, not even made with reliability of the motor in mind, type of ECU.
Is this old skool enough for you?



No special software needed, Bernoulli's patented boost referenced fuel enrichment, what more could you ask for.
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Old 06-01-2002, 10:08 AM   #16
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FCON V Pro? No wait those are $1K also. I was looking at the Power FC but not sure who I'd take it to for the setup or to install it into a turbo RS.
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Old 06-01-2002, 10:09 AM   #17
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Almost forgot how about Tomei's new Reytec ECU system?
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Old 06-01-2002, 12:49 PM   #18
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What's this for Nick, a dune buggy with a Subaru plant? A friend of mine in AZ has such a contrivance (complete with the EJ18 in it) and he even has a Haltech in his, though it's the older version (can't remember model numbers though I think E6S or something). You may still be able to find those for sale.

Also you may want to contact FJO and see if they'd dumb down one of their units to only handle what you want. They may just be able to accomodate you.

~Garrett
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Old 06-01-2002, 10:00 PM   #19
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Since you guys have been down this path before who's using what on their RS-T, how much did it cost, who tuned it, any problems, how long have you run it?

I'm trying to find a new ECU to make my RS-T last as long as possible and to tune it better. So far the choices are TEC-III, Haltech, Power FC, FCON V Pro, possibly a Link System. Willing to spend about $1500 or so.
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Old 06-01-2002, 11:13 PM   #20
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It's not the cheapest one out there, but I think it has the best bang for buck (the good kind of bang).

http://www.dtafast.co.uk
(I've got the P8Pro system)
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Old 06-02-2002, 01:52 PM   #21
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skywalker - I have no idea what they even retail for... around $1300? I'm looking to hopefully be under half that cost and I don't want to insult you with an offer that is that low.

skywalker & Digital Boy - How do those ECU's work without crank position sensor input?

Quote:
Originally posted by gumby647
Is this old skool enough for you?



No special software needed, Bernoulli's patented boost referenced fuel enrichment, what more could you ask for.
Heh, I gotta admit, it's close, but I don't think carbs would work under boost that well, unfortuntely.

N/A - You know, I can't find any type of info on a FCON V Pro unit... it's all in Japanese what I did find and unfortunately, I don't know Japaneses at all. :-/

What is the Raytec system you're talking about, as well? I found a couple of references to it on the web, but no details.

Rallynavvie - Actually, it's for my car... just trust me, I know what I'm doing with it.

BTW, good idea about contacting FJO and asking about a stripped-down version. I will have to try them and also SDS to see what they say. Maybe a near-crippled unit would work perfect for me... hopefully removing hardware can bring the cost down significantly enough, though.

To all - Don't worry, I know what I'm doing here, and I will inform all as soon as I get it all figured out and working up to expectations.
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Old 06-02-2002, 02:04 PM   #22
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Speaking of crippled ECMs, my ex-gf used to have this thing where when she was mad and riding in my car she'd repeatedly kick the floorboard in the car. We all know what's hidden under that side of the car

Fortunately that was pre-Haltech. Have you looked into an older Haltech system? I could have my Aussie buddy look out for one. He can get E6Ks pretty cheap in AU and the exchange rate is pretty good.

You've definitely piqued my interest though. No correction maps? Making some kind of standalone circuit to handle that? Curious...

~Garrett
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Old 06-02-2002, 02:09 PM   #23
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Say you were to buy a LinkPlus, instead of a Crank Position Sensor the Link Plus would use a 1.5 Bar MAP which come stock with the Link. You can also upgrade to a 3 Bar MAP later if you like. Besides using the MAP for control, it also uses the Throttle Position to measure how much fuel to add to the air. Those are the main points, then at idle there are a few other settings you will play around with to get it to idle nice and smooth. Timing is manage by way of s timing map.

No insult on the price of the Wolf, looking for a good home for it. PM'ed you...

Hope that helps,
~Bill
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Old 06-02-2002, 02:25 PM   #24
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Rallynavvie - Put it this way, I'm looking to do something that I don't think very many people, if any, have done before. Kind of a creation of my own mind... I just want to be sure that it works before I spread info on it. Could make for others trying it as well, and making a very expensive mistake on my fault if it doesn't. :-/

I have thought about older Haltech's, but they're very hard to find over here. I can actually get new Haltech E6K's for $1000 shipped (with with everything minus MAP sensor) from AU all day long. I definitely would consider older units, but no idea how much they run for and whatnot.

skywalker - Ahhhh, you're saying it uses the stock crank position sensor, ok. I PM'd you back, BTW.
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Old 06-02-2002, 05:40 PM   #25
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Use the Microtech..Around 1g from aus.I have the MTX-8 with the new laptop upgrade.I am the ony one I know using it here in the states.There are a bunch of people using them in their rotories down in south america.Also this is the same ECU that Tony Rigoli uses in his WRX. Except he uses the MT-8. The difference between the MT-8 and the MTX-8 is that the MTX-8 have fuel/ignition outputs, while the MT-8 is a fuel only system.If you want any info on it give me a shout..Gerry
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