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Old 02-21-2012, 01:24 PM   #551
P3Auto
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Putting the downpipe on without a tune is ok as long as you drive the car easy before the tune. The possibility for boost spikes and over boost conditions exist however if you stay out of heavy boost then the car will run completely normal.

"Boost creep" is a condition where the waste gate is unable to remove enough pre-turbo exhaust pressure. This is a physical limitation of the waste gate. This condition if it is truely boost creep cannot be tuned out. The only way to regain control of boost would be to try and port the internal wastegate on the turbo or use an external wastegate.

The way to test for true boost creep is to connect you waste gate actuator directly to the manifold. If you still over boost or build boost towards redline you have boost creep.

Its hard to say if you will have the boost creep issue. In -40 conditions the air is very dense and easy to compress. Depending on the amout of boost the system could "creep" too decides if it is a problem or not. In other words if your target was say 18psi and you would creep to 20psi by redline then this potentially could be adjusted for with proper fuel and timing. The real issue is how hard that turbo would be over spinning at that point.

I think the best thing to do is put all your mods on, tune it, and see how it all works. I personally have tuned a lot of these setups and boost creep seems to be much less of an issue on the later models. Extreme temp conditions however can be unpredictable and when its -40 I personally don't push my cars or motors hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _davin View Post
I want to get an intake/downpipe/tune this summer. Without getting an AP, if I installed the DP in my garage up here, would it be safe to drive all the way down there to have it tuned, on the factory map?

Also I've heard a few people from the states say they get a lot of boost creep when it gets 'cold'(which to them is probably like +40). So would I have issues when it's -40? *Catted DP and SPT catback.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:12 PM   #552
_davin
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Awesome, thank you. I need to come up with some money...
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:09 AM   #553
scubywagon
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I have an 04 wagon with a hybrid swap (2.5 block with 2.0 heads with sti cams, vf-39 front mount and ewg running just spring pressure at the moment) and the car runs great at partial throttle and when easing into the gas but if I attempt wot it seems like it wants to fall on its face. If I have it in neutral and I rev the motor it seems fine, but under load it falls on its face and it flashes a cylinder 1 misfire....any suggestions? I did find the small hose that goes to the front side of the turbo was leaking and fixed it but no change.... I appreciate any insight!
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Old 03-12-2012, 05:38 PM   #554
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It would be very difficult to really tell you what is going on without some more information. My best guess (and just a guess) is that you may be going very rich under higher loads. We have built a lot of cars like yours and a few of them with certain mods did end up having to be leaned out quite a bit from the factory tune with additional air flow.

Without more info we cannot help much. So here are some questions:

1. Is there any smoke and what color is it when the car falls flat?
2. Have you checked all of you boost hoses for leaks? Can you boost leak check the system?
3. Is there any tune on the car?
4. Did you replace the injectors as well? If so did you scale them (tune)?
5. Have you cleaned the MAF sensor lately?
6. Can you log or do you have a cobb ap or tactrix cable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scubywagon View Post
I have an 04 wagon with a hybrid swap (2.5 block with 2.0 heads with sti cams, vf-39 front mount and ewg running just spring pressure at the moment) and the car runs great at partial throttle and when easing into the gas but if I attempt wot it seems like it wants to fall on its face. If I have it in neutral and I rev the motor it seems fine, but under load it falls on its face and it flashes a cylinder 1 misfire....any suggestions? I did find the small hose that goes to the front side of the turbo was leaking and fixed it but no change.... I appreciate any insight!
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:59 AM   #555
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Hi, I have a 2007 WRX with K&N intake, hard turbo inlet, up/dp/exhaust, and stg 2 custom e-tune. I have developed a condition where mainly while cruising at low load (cruise control) but also if I get on the gas too hard the car starts to register feedback knock correction (on the AP). if I ease the gas on more it seems to go away, as it does if I let the gas off. My tuner said this was misfire, not knock, and I have checked plugs,coils, fixed a few vacuum leaks, cleaned MAF, seafoamed, etc. but the problem still persists. no smoke at all coming from the car. Thanks a lot for any help!
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:48 PM   #556
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Part throttle or low load seems to have some slight knock correction even on stock tunes with some of these cars. It may or may not be an actual issue. These areas of noise can be tuned out or corrected but it is typically harmless. It could be an indicator of something getting worn or out of spec as well. With low load slight knock is ok, the car will eventually trim the timing for that region of the tune on its own if the problem is large enough.

To really know whats going on I need to see a log. Please record RPM, Calc load, and feed back knock correction. Send me some logs with that data and I can tell you if you have a legit problem or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexMatt87 View Post
Hi, I have a 2007 WRX with K&N intake, hard turbo inlet, up/dp/exhaust, and stg 2 custom e-tune. I have developed a condition where mainly while cruising at low load (cruise control) but also if I get on the gas too hard the car starts to register feedback knock correction (on the AP). if I ease the gas on more it seems to go away, as it does if I let the gas off. My tuner said this was misfire, not knock, and I have checked plugs,coils, fixed a few vacuum leaks, cleaned MAF, seafoamed, etc. but the problem still persists. no smoke at all coming from the car. Thanks a lot for any help!
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:54 PM   #557
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Will do, I'll also add that the car does try to trim this stuff out, but it never actually goes away, making the car's acceleration feel really lumpy and weak eventually. We will see what the logs hold.

Thanks!
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:55 PM   #558
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ok, so I tried to post my log here and I can't get it to work. is there a trick to it or something?

Thanks
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:26 PM   #559
scubywagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P3Auto
It would be very difficult to really tell you what is going on without some more information. My best guess (and just a guess) is that you may be going very rich under higher loads. We have built a lot of cars like yours and a few of them with certain mods did end up having to be leaned out quite a bit from the factory tune with additional air flow.

Without more info we cannot help much. So here are some questions:

1. Is there any smoke and what color is it when the car falls flat?
2. Have you checked all of you boost hoses for leaks? Can you boost leak check the system?
3. Is there any tune on the car?
4. Did you replace the injectors as well? If so did you scale them (tune)?
5. Have you cleaned the MAF sensor lately?
6. Can you log or do you have a cobb ap or tactrix cable?
Found....bad coil pack in case anyone else runs into the same problem. Thanks
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:41 PM   #560
rayacain89
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I'm a newbie to tuning but i'm starting to get a basic grasp on it. There are a few things that I was hoping you could answer please.
I have been using RomRaider to log and I dont fully understand a couple parameters.

Fine Learning Knock Correction
Knock Correction Advance

I understand FBKC and I guess my concern is that there are times when I am logging that I see no FBKC but I occasionally see a FLKC value and frequently see a value in the KCA parameter.
Is it safe to say that if I am not seeing a value in the FBKC parameter i'm not knocking?

Thanks!
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:47 PM   #561
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Check out a program call learningview.exe , this is an easy way to look at learned values that your car has stored. It is normal to see learned knock correction in low calculated loads or during cruising. Even a stock map can show this. What you don't want to see is FBKC or learned knock correction in high load areas. Sometimes you may see -2 or less in FBKC. Every once in a while this is ok but if it is consistent you may want to make changes to your tune to resolve the occurrence.



Quote:
Originally Posted by rayacain89 View Post
I'm a newbie to tuning but i'm starting to get a basic grasp on it. There are a few things that I was hoping you could answer please.
I have been using RomRaider to log and I dont fully understand a couple parameters.

Fine Learning Knock Correction
Knock Correction Advance

I understand FBKC and I guess my concern is that there are times when I am logging that I see no FBKC but I occasionally see a FLKC value and frequently see a value in the KCA parameter.
Is it safe to say that if I am not seeing a value in the FBKC parameter i'm not knocking?

Thanks!
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:02 PM   #562
rayacain89
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Thanks again! I have the program just havent started using it yet.
I had one more question that I forgot last time. Im using an LC-1 for my AFR and while cruising it jumps between 14.8-13.8. Usually it stays around 14.7.
When I go WOT it drops to 10.6, I checked my map and it is set to drop to 11.6.
I changed the AFR in the WOT range to 10.6 to see what it would do at WOT. When I went WOT it dropped to 9.6 on the LC-1. I did that just long enough to see it drop.

Is that an indication of a boost leak or something else?

Mods are:
2002 WRX

06 2.5L SB w/2.0L heads
Perrin catless UP
Invidia Catless TBE
Snorkus delete

Was tuned by PRE for the 2.5L/UP/Snorkus delete
Hasnt been tuned yet for the TBE though
Also I am in MS now and using 93 Oct and not Oregon using 91 Oct
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:41 PM   #563
P3Auto
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Something to note is that the tables that are used during WOT are OPEN loop fueling tables so the car takes a best guess based on MAF voltage basically and some other factors. The targets in those tables and what you actually see don't always match even on stock tunes.

It sounds like you are way off targets so a boost leak check would be a good start as a leak would cause this effect. Anything below 10:1 is typically followed by black smoke and bad running or misfires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayacain89 View Post
Thanks again! I have the program just havent started using it yet.
I had one more question that I forgot last time. Im using an LC-1 for my AFR and while cruising it jumps between 14.8-13.8. Usually it stays around 14.7.
When I go WOT it drops to 10.6, I checked my map and it is set to drop to 11.6.
I changed the AFR in the WOT range to 10.6 to see what it would do at WOT. When I went WOT it dropped to 9.6 on the LC-1. I did that just long enough to see it drop.

Is that an indication of a boost leak or something else?

Mods are:
2002 WRX

06 2.5L SB w/2.0L heads
Perrin catless UP
Invidia Catless TBE
Snorkus delete

Was tuned by PRE for the 2.5L/UP/Snorkus delete
Hasnt been tuned yet for the TBE though
Also I am in MS now and using 93 Oct and not Oregon using 91 Oct
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Old 03-17-2012, 04:25 PM   #564
BluescoobyBoost
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Hey,

I've been doing some research about reading Datalogs over the past week or so. I'm noticing some Feedback Knock on top end (above 5k) when I actually get in the boost. The bottom end is forged and has around 25K miles on it. Any ideas about what's causing the knock? The current tune is 22.5 PSI w/ Meth.

Mod list:
-AR Fab Built motor (Manley pistons, AR fab custom rods)
-Blouch DOM 4 turbo w/billet wheel
-Deatschwerks 850cc injectors
-Perrin Front mount intercooler
-Perrin Fuel rails
-Blitz nur spec R turbo back exhaust
-Invidia downpipe
-GTspec UEL Header
-GTspec Uppipe
-Tial 44mm Wastegate
-Tial 40mm Fully ATM BOV
-AERO 340 fuel pump
-Meth injection Kit

Here is the Datalog. 4th gear pull. I'm still new to this so let me know if you see anything else that doesn't look right.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1pfRkVsQ3NvOXc

Thanks!!
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:08 PM   #565
P3Auto
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Honestly quite a bit of this log looks wrong to me based on your mods.

You are logging far to many varibles to get the detail I need to see but I will take a crack at it.

You mentioned a DOM 4 and 22.5 PSI. You log shows 18psi peak, the amount of air you show barely hits 300 g/s so your not moving very much air for that setup your very low. Your calculated loads as a result is quite low. I'm wondering if you have some sort of block or air restriction somewhere in the system. Quite honestly this log looks more like something we might see on a stock STI turbo.

To really help with your problems we need to see a log with just calculated load, rpm, feed back knock, and total timing. With less varibles we will see much better resolution. If you have a wideband I also need to know what the AFR is leading up to and during the knock periods.

Depending on various factors you may need to adjust your fuel to help with the knock. The timing that I see doesn't look very high especially if your spraying meth/water at that load. A lot of times people make the mistake of tuning a car rich with meth/water running, this can actually lead to a kind of knock that will result in what you have shown. Try going for a target of 11.2:1 to start with the meth / water flowing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluescoobyBoost View Post
Hey,

I've been doing some research about reading Datalogs over the past week or so. I'm noticing some Feedback Knock on top end (above 5k) when I actually get in the boost. The bottom end is forged and has around 25K miles on it. Any ideas about what's causing the knock? The current tune is 22.5 PSI w/ Meth.

Mod list:
-AR Fab Built motor (Manley pistons, AR fab custom rods)
-Blouch DOM 4 turbo w/billet wheel
-Deatschwerks 850cc injectors
-Perrin Front mount intercooler
-Perrin Fuel rails
-Blitz nur spec R turbo back exhaust
-Invidia downpipe
-GTspec UEL Header
-GTspec Uppipe
-Tial 44mm Wastegate
-Tial 40mm Fully ATM BOV
-AERO 340 fuel pump
-Meth injection Kit

Here is the Datalog. 4th gear pull. I'm still new to this so let me know if you see anything else that doesn't look right.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1pfRkVsQ3NvOXc

Thanks!!
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Old 03-22-2012, 10:53 PM   #566
03WRXer
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Default About to start tuning my v8 JDM STI swap with RomRaider

Hi guys. Up till now I have just been reading forums, looking for the answers to my questions, but I figured I'd post a few.

I have a 2003 USDM WRX. I have installed a version 8 JDM STI swap. I believe it is a 2004 JDM STI Spec-C, because it has the ball bearing twinscroll turbo.

question (1): This v8 JDM STI ECU is 16 bit right?

I have a AEM wideband, and AEM EGT gauge on the way. Trying to find the easiest way to mount them for now, so I can data log and check my AFRs, because I have been driving this JDM setup so far without any tuning and I want to make sure it's doing ok. My downpipe is the v8 JDM one. It has an O2 sensor right at the top bell mouth, then a cat, then another O2 sensor at the tail end.

question (2): Can I remove the rear O2 sensor, and mount the AEM uego wideband here? I think my JDM STI ECU is 16 bit, so I sould be able to remove my rear o2 sensor, but I'm not sure if a wideband will work after a CAT? I plan to get rid of my CAT at some point, but I need to get the wideband, and EGT gauges hooked up for now.

question (3): My exhaust manifold is equal length (twinscroll), so does it matter where I mount the egt probe? I read that usually #4, but with equal length any one of them is ok but it has to be within 3" of the head?

question (4): Is it ok to drill and tap the hole for the EGT probe in our exhaust manifolds?

Thanks for your help......
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:01 PM   #567
P3Auto
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(1) I don't know off the top of my head on that one. I could tell you easilly if you send me the tune from it. If I recall it is a 32 bit. I can check later or maybe someone will chime in.

(2) Yes no problem on the rear sensor. With the sensor after the cat it can show leaner readings. Compare what you are seeing against what you front 02 is seeing during cruise and idle. T

(3) It would be nice to have a sensor on all the cyls...lol..You on the right track with what your thinking though sounds ok.

(4) We do it all the time. Its fine just get it right the first time or you will be dealing with a hole you cannot use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03WRXer View Post
Hi guys. Up till now I have just been reading forums, looking for the answers to my questions, but I figured I'd post a few.

I have a 2003 USDM WRX. I have installed a version 8 JDM STI swap. I believe it is a 2004 JDM STI Spec-C, because it has the ball bearing twinscroll turbo.

question (1): This v8 JDM STI ECU is 16 bit right?

I have a AEM wideband, and AEM EGT gauge on the way. Trying to find the easiest way to mount them for now, so I can data log and check my AFRs, because I have been driving this JDM setup so far without any tuning and I want to make sure it's doing ok. My downpipe is the v8 JDM one. It has an O2 sensor right at the top bell mouth, then a cat, then another O2 sensor at the tail end.

question (2): Can I remove the rear O2 sensor, and mount the AEM uego wideband here? I think my JDM STI ECU is 16 bit, so I sould be able to remove my rear o2 sensor, but I'm not sure if a wideband will work after a CAT? I plan to get rid of my CAT at some point, but I need to get the wideband, and EGT gauges hooked up for now.

question (3): My exhaust manifold is equal length (twinscroll), so does it matter where I mount the egt probe? I read that usually #4, but with equal length any one of them is ok but it has to be within 3" of the head?

question (4): Is it ok to drill and tap the hole for the EGT probe in our exhaust manifolds?

Thanks for your help......
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:36 PM   #568
03WRXer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P3Auto View Post
(1) I don't know off the top of my head on that one. I could tell you easilly if you send me the tune from it. If I recall it is a 32 bit. I can check later or maybe someone will chime in.

(2) Yes no problem on the rear sensor. With the sensor after the cat it can show leaner readings. Compare what you are seeing against what you front 02 is seeing during cruise and idle. T

(3) It would be nice to have a sensor on all the cyls...lol..You on the right track with what your thinking though sounds ok.

(4) We do it all the time. Its fine just get it right the first time or you will be dealing with a hole you cannot use.


Wow. Thanks for the quick reply! Soooo.....

If my v8 ECU is 32 bit then I can't remove the rear O2 sensor right? Only 16 bit ECU setups can remove the rear o2 sensor, and install a wideband in it place right?

The 32 bit ECU needs both the front and rear o2 sensors?
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:25 AM   #569
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The rear O2 sensor is a narrow band sensor. It simply checks to see if the cat is doing its job. It can also report lean or rich codes post-cat. The only sensor that is used from a tune perspective is the front O2 which is actually a wide band sensor. It is used to trim fuel for closed loop mode. The car is generally in closed loop while cruising or idle conditions. Once you leave closed loop your car pays no attention to any o2 sensors. So when you WOT the car switches to open loop. This is when you need to monitor things with your wideband.

Remove all codes refering to rear O2 sensor and post cat codes or cat efficiency codes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03WRXer View Post
Wow. Thanks for the quick reply! Soooo.....

If my v8 ECU is 32 bit then I can't remove the rear O2 sensor right? Only 16 bit ECU setups can remove the rear o2 sensor, and install a wideband in it place right?

The 32 bit ECU needs both the front and rear o2 sensors?
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:54 AM   #570
03WRXer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P3Auto View Post
The rear O2 sensor is a narrow band sensor. It simply checks to see if the cat is doing its job. It can also report lean or rich codes post-cat. The only sensor that is used from a tune perspective is the front O2 which is actually a wide band sensor. It is used to trim fuel for closed loop mode. The car is generally in closed loop while cruising or idle conditions. Once you leave closed loop your car pays no attention to any o2 sensors. So when you WOT the car switches to open loop. This is when you need to monitor things with your wideband.

Remove all codes refering to rear O2 sensor and post cat codes or cat efficiency codes.


Ok. Yea, that was my understanding too. But there is a lot of conflicting info in posts on here...

I have read a few places that people said "do not remove rear o2 sensor on 32 bit ecu cars, but that it was fine to do on 16 bit ecu cars".

Was just wondering if there was really a difference, or not.

Thanks again!
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:09 PM   #571
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Having milage issues getting a consistent 14.4 mpg in town on the mild 90oct premium fuel in AK Was getting 19.8 in Washington on 94oct. I'm driving a STOCK 2006 STI. Ive tried octane boosters and just driving like a grandma. Could this be due to the change in fuel quality? or should I start with a ECU reset then move to the O2 sensors?
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:42 PM   #572
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Don't jump to conclusions just yet. That much of a drop is not due to fuel quality. Some basic tests can tell a lot. If you would like to come by the shop we can take a look at it at no charge. If your not local give me a call or text me at 907 355 6655 and we can discuss some items to look at.

Seth
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:38 AM   #573
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Sounds good! Are you in Fairbanks or Anchorage?? I'm in Fairbanks. I will be doing some body mods on it a a friends shop tomorrow. That would be a good time to call since the hood will be open and rubber off the ground I have a good multi to test the O2's with. Gonna start with a ECU reset then go from there. What time will fit with your schedule?
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:18 AM   #574
cosseywrx
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he's in wasilla
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:05 PM   #575
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Member#: 241881
Join Date: Mar 2010
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: 907-355-6655 text or phone
Vehicle:
2014 P3 Import Auto
AWD Dyno, Mods, etc

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You can call anytime. To really get some idea of what is going on can you get a tactrix cable or a scan tool that will allow you to log or look at live data?

I have a few connections up there that I can refer you to. You can call or text anytime.

Things to look for:
1. Boost leaks -- Anything that leaks after the turbo will cause your car to go rich and burn extra fuel while under any level of boost. To really find some leaks you need to make or borrow a boost leak tool. Lots of threads about this and can be built from home depot parts. Another quick thing to do is just tighten all the hose clamps and check the hose between the top mount ic and the throttle body, the stock ones always crack and leak.

2. MAF sensor -- Try cleaning your MAF sensor and make sure your air filter is clean as well. MAF cleaning spray at any auto parts store.

If you cannot get a scan tool or tactrix cable let me know I will put you in touch with someone that can check some other items that will paint more of a picture.

Usually (take with a grain of salt) when the front O2 fails or gets weird the car picks up on it and will eventually throw a CEL. The rear O2 is really not involved in fuel trims but it will complain about being to rich post cat and things like that. Typically we see the front O2 fail around 60k-85k and 90% of them cause other issues unlike yours and or throw a CEL.

We had a customer who had a boost leak right at the intercooler to tb hose. This caused his IAM/DAM to drop and his MPG to drop for several reasons that I will leave off for now...

Check the basics first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rooster907 View Post
Sounds good! Are you in Fairbanks or Anchorage?? I'm in Fairbanks. I will be doing some body mods on it a a friends shop tomorrow. That would be a good time to call since the hood will be open and rubber off the ground I have a good multi to test the O2's with. Gonna start with a ECU reset then go from there. What time will fit with your schedule?
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