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Old 03-23-2010, 10:17 PM   #1
MARKSTIV8
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Default Im ready for DOG BOX In my car

Im ready to buy a dog box for my car BUT LIKE TO TEST DRIVE A CAR WIT ONE IN IT BEFORE i SPEND $$$$

Any body with one I can test in ILL. or IN or MI or WI. I'm willing to drive a distance to check it out.

Or any body has one for sale I can test before i spend$$$$

Please HELP.

Mark
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:07 AM   #2
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you might have better luck posting this in your local region forum...
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Old 03-24-2010, 02:16 AM   #3
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so this is a track only car?

you've never driven a dog box?

why not a 6-speed 5x114.3 swap?
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:32 AM   #4
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LOL

I have a STI V8 JDM motor and 6-sp


So I was thinking I wand something different for a change....



Thank You for your help so far YOU ALL


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Originally Posted by jamal View Post
so this is a track only car?

you've never driven a dog box?

why not a 6-speed 5x114.3 swap?
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:49 AM   #5
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frankly, I wouldnt need a test drive. as soon as I can afford one i'm getting one.
no-clutch shifting FTW. that satisfying 'clunk' when u engage 1st at a standstill FTMFW.

God i love dogboxes....
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Old 03-26-2010, 04:14 AM   #6
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Lots of gear replacement and service involved with a dogbox setup. That is why no one runs one in a street car. I respect wanting to do something different, but if it is not a track only car, it would be a huge mistake. The car would NOT be daily-driveable. Rally teams that run dogbox transmissions completely tear down and rebuild them after every rally. Unfortunately, it isn't a matter of pay money, get clutchless shifting...lol!! If it was, everyone would have it!!
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:28 PM   #7
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Its a common misconception that a dog box is not streetable. Before getting a dog box remember they are not all made equally and doing your homework on the 4 or 5 different ones available is a must. Having seen first hand some of the parts and gear boxes offered by PPG at PRI this year I was very impressed and am looking forward to trying one in a friends rally build. I would imagine that it would take some getting used to but over time will require no more thought.


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Old 03-27-2010, 12:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Bandit View Post
Lots of gear replacement and service involved with a dogbox setup. That is why no one runs one in a street car. I respect wanting to do something different, but if it is not a track only car, it would be a huge mistake. The car would NOT be daily-driveable. Rally teams that run dogbox transmissions completely tear down and rebuild them after every rally. Unfortunately, it isn't a matter of pay money, get clutchless shifting...lol!! If it was, everyone would have it!!
So you have driven one and came to that conclusion??? I think that is a big misconception, maybe people who can't drive them right, then they would be expensive to keep replacing the parts you grind away..... but if you drive it right it will last just as long as a synchro box with normal street driving, and for hard driving the dogbox will last FAR longer than a synchro box. I think dogs are something that gets a bad reputation because people dont learn to drive them correctly, which of course will cause damage fast.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
Its a common misconception that a dog box is not streetable. Before getting a dog box remember they are not all made equally and doing your homework on the 4 or 5 different ones available is a must. Having seen first hand some of the parts and gear boxes offered by PPG at PRI this year I was very impressed and am looking forward to trying one in a friends rally build. I would imagine that it would take some getting used to but over time will require no more thought.


YouTube- Pfitzner Performance Gearbox - How to drive a dog box
Yeah they really are not that hard, I just had some put in my car http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1953216,
I was a little worried, lots of people told me I would hate it and it was too much of a pain, but of course they had never driven one.... I figured what the heck, I will give it a shot, I wanted to see for myself, and I could not be happier. Its really not hard to drive on the street, just have to adjust your driving a little, but in a fun way, right now I am still having to concentrate to remember to engage it quick lol, but its becoming more normal every day, and its really pretty smooth, definitely some clunks here and there sometimes, a few clunks is a small price to pay to shift as fast as you want
I would definitely go with helical cut and and more stock type ratios(I got straight cut group N just to see what it was like) for an awesome dd street box that will take anything you throw at it and forget about high rpm synchro grinds and slow shifts.
Next is working on the clutchless shifts......
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:17 PM   #9
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Any intrest in a KAPS SSS? Class i'm going into may not allow it. And it just was freshend up by KAPS so it has like 100kms on it.
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Bandit View Post
Lots of gear replacement and service involved with a dogbox setup. That is why no one runs one in a street car. I respect wanting to do something different, but if it is not a track only car, it would be a huge mistake. The car would NOT be daily-driveable. Rally teams that run dogbox transmissions completely tear down and rebuild them after every rally. Unfortunately, it isn't a matter of pay money, get clutchless shifting...lol!! If it was, everyone would have it!!
FYI oldschool vw beetles had factory dogbox transmissions (no-synchros) and they didnt need to be constantly rebuilt and were very daily driveable.
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:51 PM   #11
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Ok IM buying ONE

Any body selling one PM me....
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Old 03-28-2010, 10:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novacivic View Post
FYI oldschool vw beetles had factory dogbox transmissions (no-synchros) and they didnt need to be constantly rebuilt and were very daily driveable.
That was an effort to gain female drivers. It was "easier" because they didn't have to use a clutch all the time, wasn't it?
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:34 PM   #13
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NICE....

Any body selling his DOG box in the Ill. area???
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KP View Post
That was an effort to gain female drivers. It was "easier" because they didn't have to use a clutch all the time, wasn't it?
You're thinking of the autostick, which was a 2spd auto thingy.

Yes, of course early VWs didn't have syncros on all gears. Lots of old cars didn't have syncros, especially on 1st gear. That doesn't mean they were "dog boxes", nor did they do it for the cool factor.

Can this be moved to the tuner/ricer forum?

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Old 03-30-2010, 08:07 AM   #15
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Old 03-30-2010, 01:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Bandit View Post
Lots of gear replacement and service involved with a dogbox setup. That is why no one runs one in a street car. I respect wanting to do something different, but if it is not a track only car, it would be a huge mistake. The car would NOT be daily-driveable. Rally teams that run dogbox transmissions completely tear down and rebuild them after every rally. Unfortunately, it isn't a matter of pay money, get clutchless shifting...lol!! If it was, everyone would have it!!

examples?


I love it when people post absolutes and then no data to support.

I've had conversations with people who rally/build rally cars and have said the exact opposite (really, it all just depends on how hard you drive, how you drive it, etc) so I'm curious at to where you're getting your data from.
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Old 03-30-2010, 03:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UP2MTNS View Post
examples?


I love it when people post absolutes and then no data to support.

I've had conversations with people who rally/build rally cars and have said the exact opposite (really, it all just depends on how hard you drive, how you drive it, etc) so I'm curious at to where you're getting your data from.
formula one silly j/k


I agree, I've known many people who run a dog box a full season and it doesn't have to be over-hauled.

Now as an example of failure, back when I used to work at ISR, we did have issues with a MRT dog box where the customers daily driver car would get stuck in 2nd gear. This was mainly due to the customer cutting corners on the build of the dog box and us as a service allowing that to happen. It didn't end very well.
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
Its a common misconception that a dog box is not streetable. Before getting a dog box remember they are not all made equally and doing your homework on the 4 or 5 different ones available is a must. Having seen first hand some of the parts and gear boxes offered by PPG at PRI this year I was very impressed and am looking forward to trying one in a friends rally build. I would imagine that it would take some getting used to but over time will require no more thought.


YouTube- Pfitzner Performance Gearbox - How to drive a dog box
The kit they used on the GTR is their syncro set. Not the dogbox.

These are all the options for Subarus.

Subaru WRX 6sp Dog Group N $12,100
Subaru WRX 6sp Dog Group N (5gear set) $11,000
Subaru WRX 6sp, 4 gear DRAG (dog box) $7,480
Subaru WRX 5sp Dog Group N $9,735
Subaru WRX 5sp 4 Gear str-cut (dog box) $5,885
Subaru WRX 5sp 4 Gear helical (dog box) $6,105
Subaru WRX 1/2 str-cut (dog box) $3,300
Subaru WRX 1/2 helical (dog box) $3,300
Subaru WRX 3/4 str-cut (dog box) $2,585
Subaru WRX 3/4 helical (dog box) $2,805
Subaru WRX 5sp 4 gear str-cut (synchro) $4,675
Subaru WRX 5sp 4 gear helical (synchro) $4,675
Subaru WRX 1st & 2nd str-cut (synchro) $2,640
Subaru WRX 1st & 2nd helical (synchro) $2,640
Subaru WRX 3rd & 4th str-cut (synchro) $2,035
Subaru WRX 3rd & 4th helical (synchro) $2,035

I use the 5sp 4 Gear str-cut (dog box) on my 2002 WRX.

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Old 04-03-2010, 02:45 PM   #19
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The kit they used on the GTR is their syncro set. Not the dogbox.
So you are saying they lied in that video?
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Old 04-03-2010, 03:44 PM   #20
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So you are saying they lied in that video?
i dont think i heard them specifiying the set they used..

but sounds like they are using the syncro set, it doesnt whine at all
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Old 04-03-2010, 03:52 PM   #21
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i dont think i heard them specifiying the set they used..

but sounds like they are using the syncro set, it doesnt whine at all
What does being a synchro set have anything at all to do with it whining??? The whine is caused by the straight cut gears NOT the dog ENGAGEMENT
The Video is how to drive a dog box, I know Simon and though we have our differences I don't think he is going to make a video with that name and drive a synchro box in it.... I am sure it is their HELICAL cut dog box for the GTR, thus no whine.
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Old 04-03-2010, 04:21 PM   #22
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What does being a synchro set have anything at all to do with it whining??? The whine is caused by the straight cut gears NOT the dog ENGAGEMENT
The Video is how to drive a dog box, I know Simon and though we have our differences I don't think he is going to make a video with that name and drive a synchro box in it.... I am sure it is their HELICAL cut dog box for the GTR, thus no whine.
I know that lol

but i guess i wasnt too clear. Most people will take this video as "straight cut dox box is fine to daily drive". What I tried to say was, I dont beleive this GTR has the straight cut Dogbox, but it probably has the straight or helical syncro set.

I might be wrong, never driven a GTR with PPGs before. But my 1-4 dogbox is wildly loud when shifting, and it whines a lot. I would pick a 6spd over this anyday for street use.

makes sense ?
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Old 04-03-2010, 04:43 PM   #23
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I know that lol

but i guess i wasnt too clear. Most people will take this video as "straight cut dox box is fine to daily drive". What I tried to say was, I dont beleive this GTR has the straight cut Dogbox, but it probably has the straight or helical syncro set.

I might be wrong, never driven a GTR with PPGs before. But my 1-4 dogbox is wildly loud when shifting, and it whines a lot. I would pick a 6spd over this anyday for street use.

makes sense ?
No it doesnt make sense, I don't know why there is such a misconception about this... cut of the gears = straight cut or helical cut(angled), straight cut is noisy, helical is much quieter, neither of these have anything to do with dog or synchro engagement. SO you can have a helical cut dog set that is very quiet, but may "clunk" etc when you shift, but if you are crusing down the road you would never know the difference in noise from a stock set, you will ONLY tell the difference when you shift.
Synchro engagment uses brass cones to bring the two shafts to the same speed as you shift so the engagment is smooth, but this also limits how fast you can shift and how strong it is, dog engagment does not use anything but the large dog teeth coming together to bring the two shafts to the same speed, its much stronger and allows for faster shifting, but not quite as civilized...
I am sure the tranny in the video is a helical cut dog, which is why he did the video to help with all these false idea's about them.....
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Old 04-03-2010, 05:00 PM   #24
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No it doesnt make sense, I don't know why there is such a misconception about this... cut of the gears = straight cut or helical cut(angled), straight cut is noisy, helical is much quieter, neither of these have anything to do with dog or synchro engagement. SO you can have a helical cut dog set that is very quiet, but may "clunk" etc when you shift, but if you are crusing down the road you would never know the difference in noise from a stock set, you will ONLY tell the difference when you shift.
Synchro engagment uses brass cones to bring the two shafts to the same speed as you shift so the engagment is smooth, but this also limits how fast you can shift and how strong it is, dog engagment does not use anything but the large dog teeth coming together to bring the two shafts to the same speed, its much stronger and allows for faster shifting, but not quite as civilized...
I am sure the tranny in the video is a helical cut dog, which is why he did the video to help with all these false idea's about them.....
as long as you are saying the GTR has a helical cut gearset, we are on the same page. But i'm still not convinced if he is really running the dogbox or the syncro set.. maybe you can chime in.

in the beginning of the video I thought he was saying "dogbox straight cut", but listening to it again, he goes "dogbox in a street car"
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Old 04-03-2010, 05:12 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garageGT View Post
as long as you are saying the GTR has a helical cut gearset, we are on the same page. But i'm still not convinced if he is really running the dogbox or the syncro set.. maybe you can chime in.

in the beginning of the video I thought he was saying "dogbox straight cut", but listening to it again, he goes "dogbox in a street car"
not much to chime in about, all you have to do is listen to the shifts and there is no doubt is a dog.
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