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Old 04-02-2010, 04:46 PM   #1
dowroa
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Default RallyX: 6 Speed Question (FLSD)

Good Day All:

I just had a really simple question, and mostly geared to the guys out West (US), as they generally have some STis running out there:

- Is the FLSD/DCCD/6spd worth any time over the 5spd out on course?

Mostly, I am looking at it from car control and drivability point of view.

Any sage input would be greatly appreciated, and thanks in advance!

- dow
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Old 04-02-2010, 06:05 PM   #2
chimchimm5
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I did the Eklund Rallyx school last year and the 3 courses where typical California rallyx courses (in fact it was used for the FRX course the next day).

My buddy and I have WRX's. He has a 6sp swap, and I have the stock 5sp.

My instructor mentioned that I need a gear between 1st and 2nd, because the course was too fast for 1st, or bogged 2nd on slower turns. He said, "that other WRX with the 6sp... that's a good ratio".
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Old 04-02-2010, 06:15 PM   #3
dowroa
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Chimchimm5:

Thanks for the response, and I understand that. Ratios are one thing, but I would really like to know if having an active center diff, mechanical rear diff, and front limited slip makes the car more controllable and faster.

Thank you!

- dow
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:30 PM   #4
speedyHAM
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Having the better differentials helps a ton in autoX and rallyX. Low speed corners where you can put a lot of torque to the wheels it's better to have 4 (STI) wheels digging in and pulling than 2-1/2 (WRX). The diffs make that happen.

For a WRX you can upgrade the front and rear diffs and be 90% there. Then you are only missing the active center, and for RallyX, a stiff viscous center is going to be pretty much the same as the active center in the STI. For autoX, the active center is the way to go.
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:52 PM   #5
dowroa
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Anyone else with practical experience, please let me know.

I have owned an STi, and I know the difference in driving feel on the asphault. I have NOT owned and STi that I have rallyXed or know if it makes a competition difference.

Thanks again!

- dow
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:54 AM   #6
UP2MTNS
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it really depends on the course, driving style, and your mods. for any given course, WRX ratios will be better, and ditto for the 6-speed.


the STI drivetrain (center, FLSD and rear LSD) is much better than a WRX though. i disagree that the stock WRX center diff is 'as good' as the STI active differential.


Having upgraded my WRX diff to an sti 20kg center diff (and kept everything else stock) I can tell you its a TOTALLY different car in the dirt with just that one modification.

If I ever bought another WRX for a daily driver, upgrading the center diff again will be the first thing i do.

I'm getting a new mechanical rear diff soon, and I can't wait to get a real 1.5way front LSD in a tranny with close ratios....a proper rally car drivetrain.
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UP2MTNS View Post
i disagree that the stock WRX center diff is 'as good' as the STI active differential.


Having upgraded my WRX diff to an sti 20kg center diff

He mentioned a "stiff vlsd". I imagine he meant the 20kg vlsd. I agree with him there, i don't think the active diff is helping much during rallyx when compared with a similarly aggressive mechanical diff.



I would say upgrading your center and rear diffs would be just as helpful as a 6spd where traction is concerned. I wouldn't bother with the hassle of the front diff for rallyx. Where the 6spd really shines is, as has been mentioned, in the first three gear ratios.
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:24 PM   #8
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STi 6spd is pretty awesome as far as controlling the car, regardless of surface. But! The weight is the real issue on dirt. Yes, your WRX will be more controllable with the 6spd and locked center diff, but as long as it weighs 500 lbs more than Sebastian's OBS, he's still going to smoke you.

For local/Eastern regional events I'm thinking lightest Impreza possible, 2.5RS swap, FXT drivetrain with front LSD, rally suspension, snow tires.

You build it and I'll co-drive it with you.
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:22 PM   #9
speedyHAM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper1rfa View Post
He mentioned a "stiff vlsd". I imagine he meant the 20kg vlsd. I agree with him there, i don't think the active diff is helping much during rallyx when compared with a similarly aggressive mechanical diff.
Exactly. I was thinking the 12Kg or 20Kg center vlsd. During very low traction situations the active center diff is basically 50/50.

The stock vlsd is 4kg, which is pretty weak and not nearly enough for rallyX.
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:39 PM   #10
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I run helical F & R LSDs in my street WRX 5sp gear box. and I run plate 1.5 ways F & R (&20kg center) LSDs in my rally WRX 5sp gear box (both built by Rallispec)

They offer a signifcant difference in how both cars handle, both going in and coming out of corners (tarmac and gravel). The plate diffs are brilliant coming out of turns, but you really need to learn trail-braking (and LFB) to get the car to rotate with'm. Plates are VERY noisy on tarmac...I mean VERY!

Helical are a great streetable performance upgrade, IMO second only to upgraded sway-bars and castor kit (ALK). But you gotta break open the gear box for the front, which'll cost ya.

Check the FAQs fo' mo' info
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Old 04-03-2010, 10:06 PM   #11
dowroa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred View Post
STi 6spd is pretty awesome as far as controlling the car, regardless of surface. But! The weight is the real issue on dirt. Yes, your WRX will be more controllable with the 6spd and locked center diff, but as long as it weighs 500 lbs more than Sebastian's OBS, he's still going to smoke you.

For local/Eastern regional events I'm thinking lightest Impreza possible, 2.5RS swap, FXT drivetrain with front LSD, rally suspension, snow tires.

You build it and I'll co-drive it with you.
Fred, and everyone, thanks for the input, but my goal is not to have a class winning car right now. Right now, I want something with a little more ratio, and a 4.44 or a 3.90 STi transmission are the two choices. I am not really happy with the 3.70 WRX tranny, but it is servicable for now. The choice will be implemented and the car sees all kinds of different usage, so those are my options. If the front LSD and active center help, than the 6spd is a done deal. If an open front an "slush" center and rear are good enough, than a 4.44 will be in the car.

Thanks for the input all. I just enjoy driving the car, and want to make it a little more fun.

- dow
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Old 04-04-2010, 08:46 AM   #12
LGT-FST
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred View Post
STi 6spd is pretty awesome as far as controlling the car, regardless of surface. But! The weight is the real issue on dirt. Yes, your WRX will be more controllable with the 6spd and locked center diff, but as long as it weighs 500 lbs more than Sebastian's OBS, he's still going to smoke you.

For local/Eastern regional events I'm thinking lightest Impreza possible, 2.5RS swap, FXT drivetrain with front LSD, rally suspension, snow tires.

You build it and I'll co-drive it with you.
Hello Kevin, long time no see. Was hoping to see ya in Nashville in 08. How about Detriot in may? Warren LOR
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Old 04-04-2010, 09:30 AM   #13
RS22b
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Honetsly it sounds to me like you just need the 4.44 gears for now. This will help tons and works really well with a 2.5 liter. I have owned quite a few 4.44 boxes with different diff setups and absolutely love them for daily driving, rallyx, autox and stage rally.

You can get a proper JDM 4.44 gear box for not that much these days. Standard JDM wrx had the 4.44 i think all the way upto 2004 or 2005. You can simply add upgraded diffs in later for the rear and center easily. The FLSD is a bit more work but well worth the money in my opinion.

If you are looking for a full bolt in rear i have a 4.44 MLSD for sale here: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1960848

Hope this helps.
_billy
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