Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday April 19, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-03-2010, 11:35 AM   #1
Tomato_88
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 204277
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Central California
Vehicle:
2008 Impreza 2.5i
Dark Gray Metallic

Default E85 Runs fine (so far) on 08 2.5i

I have searched around and have seen that some others were running E85 in their modified WRX's, but I was wondering if any one else is using it in their 08+ 2.5i N/A? It has not thrown the CEL yet on mine. And as far as the BUTT-O-Meter it feels like it packs a punch.Fuel economy only dropped slightly for me.

So anyone else using E85 on their stock 08+ 2.5i?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Tomato_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 02:04 PM   #2
nairbmik
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 220259
Join Date: Aug 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: HoCo & College Park
Vehicle:
09 2.5i
SSM

Default

Are you tuned for it? I'm sure it would give you a lot more results if you were
nairbmik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2010, 05:59 PM   #3
Tomato_88
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 204277
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Central California
Vehicle:
2008 Impreza 2.5i
Dark Gray Metallic

Default

No I am not tuned for it. I was not even sure that our cars would run on it without problems. At min. I thought i would get a CEL from what I have read.
Tomato_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 09:33 AM   #4
RaceFaceXC
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 165749
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: stupid Florida
Vehicle:
2007 No YELLING
on the bus!

Default

how long have you been running 85?
RaceFaceXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 10:52 AM   #5
xsnapshot
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 170973
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lincoln, NE
Vehicle:
2004 WRX 4EAT
PSM

Default

So your not tuned at all, and its actually running? This is really hard to believe.

I'm not sure how OPEN/CLOSED loop works on the N/A vehicles, but let me warn you.....going WOT could be very detrimental eventually. Not as dangerous as a turbo car, but you can still get detonation too.

Are you on a winter blend at all in California? What made you decide to fill up with E85? Is it full E85, or just a %? Like 50% E85 and 50% gas?
xsnapshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 11:45 AM   #6
Jubert69
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 167739
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: International
Location: CT
Vehicle:
04 WRX
ej207 spec C

Default

Stoich AFR on E85 is 8:1
On gas is 14.7

It trying to run 14.7 is 1.8-1.9, that is extremely lean and is doing damage to your engine. I'm going to call either BS or see you make a thread on your engine being done for.
Jubert69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 12:52 PM   #7
WagonMafioso
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 222641
Join Date: Sep 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Default

E85 is a waste of corn, it could be feeding hungry people right now, and they are using it as fuel such nonsense.
WagonMafioso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 01:22 PM   #8
cmiovino
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 134005
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Premium
PSM

Default

What does it say about E85 in the owner's manual. If it didn't say you could run it, I wouldn't be. Could be bad in the long term, if it's actually running right now.
cmiovino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 01:39 PM   #9
BrianMR2
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 238679
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Vehicle:
2007 WRX TR
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WagonMafioso View Post
E85 is a waste of corn, it could be feeding hungry people right now, and they are using it as fuel such nonsense.
Possibly one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. Corn is a renewable resource, we can grow more as the demand increases. Oil is not. Make any sense?
BrianMR2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 01:40 PM   #10
2.5i
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 112986
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Camano Island
Vehicle:
N/A Cam'd & Cornfed
DOM TUNED 06 Impreza

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WagonMafioso View Post
E85 is a waste of corn, it could be feeding hungry people right now, and they are using it as fuel such nonsense.
Oh really, well lets face it E85 is creating jobs, saving family farms, and is helping the U.S. ween themselves from middle eastern oil dependency. Their are many hungry U.S. citizens out there, but the fact is there are government programs in place to help them as long as them choose to use them. Hell with the way things are going it would almost make more sense to not have a job, that is unless you make well over a 100k a year.

It sounds like your car's ecu is trying compensate for the lean fuel mixture. Just like what everyone else is saying I'm willing to bet your running lean, which means your more than likely doing some awesome engine damage. I bet after a couple more tanks the car throws a cel.
2.5i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 01:54 PM   #11
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WagonMafioso View Post
E85 is a waste of corn, it could be feeding hungry people right now, and they are using it as fuel such nonsense.

the other side of that coin is overpopulation and too many people trying to live in places that can not support those numbers of subsidized people

corn isnt the issue....people IS the issue, when you get right down to the very bottom of this issue


_____________________________________________

Quote:
Stoich AFR on E85 is 8:1
On gas is 14.7
and the stoich for e85 is NOT 8:1



Fuel AFRst FARst Equivalence Ratio Lambda
Gasoline stoichiometric 14.7 0.068 1 1
Gasoline max power rich 12.5 0.08 1.176 0.8503
Gasoline max power lean 13.23 0.0755 1.111 0.900
E10 stoichiometric 14.0 - 14.1 ? ?
E85 stoichiometric 9.765 0.10235 1 1
E85 max power rich 6.975 0.1434 1.40 0.7143
E85 max power lean 8.4687 0.118 1.153 0.8673
E100 stoichiometric 9.0078 0.111 1 1
E100 max power rich 6.429 0.155 1.4 0.714
E100 max power lean 7.8 0.128 1.15 0.870
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 02:06 PM   #12
jackolafedon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 232089
Join Date: Dec 2009
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Vehicle:
2007 Impreza 2.5i
Crystal gray metallic

Default

After tuning my 07 2.5i I can tell you a few things.

1. yes the car will run, closed loop it might get close to the right lamba, but it will max out the stock AFR learning eventually.

2. No matter what without new injectors your openloop will be VERY lean, yes you will make more power but you will break something.

If you want to run e-85 get some used wrx blue injectors for cheap and get a retune for e85. That way your not running youself out of injector.
jackolafedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 02:06 PM   #13
Tomato_88
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 204277
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Central California
Vehicle:
2008 Impreza 2.5i
Dark Gray Metallic

Default

Wow. From what I had read I thought it would either run or not run. I didnt think it would do damage. So as of now I am stopping the E85.
Tomato_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 03:13 PM   #14
Counterfit
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 124254
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Rhode Island
Vehicle:
2006 06 SGM Slowbaru
"The Scoobinator"

Default Re: E85 Runs fine (so far) on 08 2.5i

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2.5i

Oh really, well lets face it E85 is creating jobs, saving family farms, and is helping the U.S. ween themselves from middle eastern oil dependency.
Corn is a far less efficient source of ethanol than sugarcane. Thankfully, other sources are being developed. Cellulosic ethanol isn't too far away, and there is a species of algae that produces ethanol directly from photosynthesis.
Counterfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 07:45 PM   #15
Jubert69
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 167739
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: International
Location: CT
Vehicle:
04 WRX
ej207 spec C

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
the other side of that coin is overpopulation and too many people trying to live in places that can not support those numbers of subsidized people

corn isnt the issue....people IS the issue, when you get right down to the very bottom of this issue


_____________________________________________



and the stoich for e85 is NOT 8:1

E85 in standard engines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Fuel AFRst FARst Equivalence Ratio Lambda
Gasoline stoichiometric 14.7 0.068 1 1
Gasoline max power rich 12.5 0.08 1.176 0.8503
Gasoline max power lean 13.23 0.0755 1.111 0.900
E10 stoichiometric 14.0 - 14.1 ? ?
E85 stoichiometric 9.765 0.10235 1 1
E85 max power rich 6.975 0.1434 1.40 0.7143
E85 max power lean 8.4687 0.118 1.153 0.8673
E100 stoichiometric 9.0078 0.111 1 1
E100 max power rich 6.429 0.155 1.4 0.714
E100 max power lean 7.8 0.128 1.15 0.870

Clearly that wasn't my point. I guess since you proved me wrong it's okay for him to run E85
Jubert69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 12:10 AM   #16
WagonMafioso
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 222641
Join Date: Sep 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMR2 View Post
Possibly one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. Corn is a renewable resource, we can grow more as the demand increases. Oil is not. Make any sense?
Of course its a renewable resource,but that does not mean it will be used the right way, but my point is that instead of wasting corn to make fuel, you can feed people, simple as that.
WagonMafioso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 12:33 AM   #17
chazly413
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 151079
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: College Park, MD
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS RBP
motec system exhaust-RIP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WagonMafioso View Post
Of course its a renewable resource,but that does not mean it will be used the right way, but my point is that instead of wasting corn to make fuel, you can feed people, simple as that.
I agree.
chazly413 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 04:05 AM   #18
formula91
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 102984
Join Date: Dec 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Northbrook, IL
Vehicle:
2005 2.5RS 4EAT
Platinum Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chazly413 View Post
I agree.
It won't matter either way. Most of the corn we use is fed to farm animals. It's not for people directly. If we all magically became vegeterian corn eaters and switched all corn production from field to sweet corn then maybe....

Even if all the corn in the US was used for fuel production, it would only meet abotu 10% of our energy needs.

Cellulose-based ethanol is the way to go. Miscanthus and Switchgrass being the most promising in the Illinois area anyway.
formula91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 12:51 PM   #19
Uncle Scotty
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16200
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
OK Houston
we have an Uncle

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubert69 View Post
Clearly that wasn't my point. I guess since you proved me wrong it's okay for him to run E85

clearly....if he keeps using straight e85 it will blow up at some point
Uncle Scotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 07:42 PM   #20
RaceFaceXC
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 165749
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: stupid Florida
Vehicle:
2007 No YELLING
on the bus!

Default

this turned into an "ethics of corn fuel" debate and that gets one of these:

lets turn this into a E85 knowledge thread and actually find out something real about how these engine can use E85 when modified/tuned properly.
RaceFaceXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 07:52 PM   #21
sniper1rfa
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 141040
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Designing things
Vehicle:
07 2.5i wagon
UGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianMR2 View Post
Corn is a renewable resource, we can grow more as the demand increases.
We already grow about as much corn as our arable land can support, and it's not even close to enough.


OP: I would probably not use e85 in your car without a tune and some proper injectors (at the very least). I'd also make sure your fuel lines aren't going to disintegrate.
sniper1rfa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 01:20 AM   #22
Tomato_88
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 204277
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Central California
Vehicle:
2008 Impreza 2.5i
Dark Gray Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper1rfa View Post
We already grow about as much corn as our arable land can support, and it's not even close to enough.


OP: I would probably not use e85 in your car without a tune and some proper injectors (at the very least). I'd also make sure your fuel lines aren't going to disintegrate.
I was confident that my fuel lines were not going to disintegrate. From the research that I have done it appears that since they started using Ethanol as a fuel additive in the early 1980's the fuel systems (ie lines, pumps, filters) can handle the ethanol.
Tomato_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 01:21 AM   #23
Tomato_88
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 204277
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Central California
Vehicle:
2008 Impreza 2.5i
Dark Gray Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceFaceXC View Post
this turned into an "ethics of corn fuel" debate and that gets one of these:

lets turn this into a E85 knowledge thread and actually find out something real about how these engine can use E85 when modified/tuned properly.
+1 for this. Maybe we can help some poor idiot from making this same mistake in the future?
Tomato_88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 08:57 AM   #24
coxy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 198711
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Sydney Australia
Vehicle:
1989 MV Brumby TC
White

Default

The biggest issue with these fuels is they absorb water,this then leads to corrosion.
Remember also that Fuel stations generally use water at the bottom of their fuel tanks to weigh them down so in heavy rain periods the lighter Gasoline filled tanks do not try to float up through the concrete apron of the gas station,this is why you try not to get fuel just after the tanker has refuelled the station as it has stirred up the water at the bottom of the tank.
Normally this is not such an issue unless their tanks are low as Gas is lighter and floats on top of the water.
Ethanol and Methanol based fuels are hygroscopic this is an issue long term they won't tell you about.
coxy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 05:44 PM   #25
Subarudave09
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 209316
Join Date: Apr 2009
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Default

so i asked a few ppl today about this. A Tech at subaru said No the srevice manager said no and SOA said no when i was on the phone with them regaurding my paint
Subarudave09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
08 STI Wing on 08 2.5i impreza juny102004 Interior & Exterior Modification 13 01-18-2012 09:46 AM
Any news on 08 2.5i CAI? Mr.Z Impreza Forum 10 06-03-2008 11:47 PM
Tire & Wheel fitment on 08 2.5i & WRX Wagon, ideas? results? p2adan Tire & Wheel 3 05-08-2008 01:12 PM
STI or Legacy Turbo Springs on 08 2.5i? rick92008 Brakes, Steering & Suspension 6 04-16-2008 08:05 PM
no temp gauge on 08 2.5i? jordan s Normally Aspirated Powertrain 14 10-26-2007 02:36 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.