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Old 04-03-2010, 06:58 PM   #1
f4phantomii
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Default Yet another reason I'll never buy another domestic....

I was helping my 75 yr old Father in Law replace the front disc brakes on his 2007 Dodge Ram pickup. Yeah...it's a 5.7l HEMI and he tows a big travel trailer withit a lot.

He said he'd noticed some shudder and thought the brakes might be worn out and wanted to replace them. He asked if I'd help him get it jacked up and on stands so he could could replace the pads over the next several days.

The man had his knee *replaced* 4 weeks ago and he was going replace his brakes?!? I told him I'd help and we could just go ahead and get it done in a couple of hours.

We removed the wheels and he went looking for a socket to fit the bolts holding the brake housing onto the brake flange. I reached around the back of the rotor and put my fingers on the bolt. I could turn this 1/2-inch bolt with my fingers!. No wonder he was feeling a shudder! Every foreign car I've ever seen has lock washers on these bolts....not on a Dodge apparently.

We got the calipers off and saw some really uneven wear on the pads. The 1/4-inch steel plate of the pad had been bent. Geez.

All this because they had to save $0.50 on 4 washers.

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Old 04-03-2010, 07:05 PM   #2
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Wow, that's a well thought out reason to never buy a "domestic" car.
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:08 PM   #3
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whoa that is crazy... but for towing heavy trailers you really cant beat a big domestic diesel ie. Cummins. ive had three 3/4 ton dodges and never had an issue with the brakes shaking or wobbling weird.
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baja820 View Post
whoa that is crazy... but for towing heavy trailers you really cant beat a big domestic diesel ie. Cummins. ive had three 3/4 ton dodges and never had an issue with the brakes shaking or wobbling weird.
cummins is the ish for diesel trucks
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:33 PM   #5
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It's a 2007 and he tows a trailer, I'm sure the brakes have been done before or at least inspected and the bolt was left loose at that point.

Lock washers will not fix a lack of torque.
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:38 PM   #6
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I drive a 06 Dodge and have had no brake issues whatsoever.
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
It's a 2007 and he tows a trailer, I'm sure the brakes have been done before or at least inspected and the bolt was left loose at that point.

Lock washers will not fix a lack of torque.
^ this.

in high vibration environments, lock washers can actually cause bolts to loosen more than not having lock washers.
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Old 04-03-2010, 07:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondaslayer View Post
It's a 2007 and he tows a trailer, I'm sure the brakes have been done before or at least inspected and the bolt was left loose at that point.

Lock washers will not fix a lack of torque.
Sadly no, this is the first time the brakes have been touched. It's just out of warranty. Brakes on the other wheel still had about 60% of the pads left. He uses the trailer brakes a lot when slowing.

It probably was torqued properly at the factory and came loose over time. BTW, there are now lockwahers on the bolts so it won't happen again.
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:43 PM   #9
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i think it's funny when these little things come up and that's the deal breaker.
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:48 PM   #10
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There is something about Chrysler, I'd say. We have a 2004ish Jeep Grand Cherokee as a company vehicle. That thing warps rotors like they're going out of style. Our other company cars, a Mercury Mountaineer and a Ford Explorer.... they're fine. But that Jeep has been through 3 sets of rotors in 60,000 miles.
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chkltcow View Post
There is something about Chrysler, I'd say. We have a 2004ish Jeep Grand Cherokee as a company vehicle. That thing warps rotors like they're going out of style. Our other company cars, a Mercury Mountaineer and a Ford Explorer.... they're fine. But that Jeep has been through 3 sets of rotors in 60,000 miles.
Are the wheels overtorqued? If you overtorque or improperly(unevenly) torque the lugs that can cause a rotor warpage.

I had a '96 Mustang that had problems with warping rotors too, and torquing to proper specs helped out.


Mika
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:56 PM   #12
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all cars fall apart. big deal
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Old 04-03-2010, 08:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnRex View Post
Are the wheels overtorqued? If you overtorque or improperly(unevenly) torque the lugs that can cause a rotor warpage.

I had a '96 Mustang that had problems with warping rotors too, and torquing to proper specs helped out.


Mika
You'd have to ask the local Chrysler/Dodge dealership that does the service on it. I just find it odd that even from the factory it had the problem and it has persisted ever since.
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
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i think it's funny when these little things come up and that's the deal breaker.
My bad....thread title should have been "Reason #327 I'll never buy another domestic...."

I've got a GMC Acadia....by most accounts one of the best vehicles GM ever produced. It's our first domestic (and last) vehicle.

We've had it in the shop at least 300% more than all of the other vehicles we've ever owned put together. And eveytime it goes in, it comes back with another problem.

It's a shame really....we love the vehicle....but the poor reliability is so stereotypical it's almost funny. The next problem that crops up with it will get it traded in on either a Honda Pilot or Toyota Highlander.
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:05 PM   #15
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i like most cars all the same. they all have their own problems. my cav z24 had a few quirks (i know, i know, not the best car) . i did the normal work to it. struts, power steering hose, wheel bearings, brakes, only one new caliper and brake line. rear brakes only once.

it was a good car. what did it in? blew a head gasket and the rest was history. i've had a few other domestics too, but i like my mid 90's subies the best so far.
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:08 PM   #16
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Sounds kinda like when the Viper beat the Vette somewhere in Illinois. Yeah!
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnRex View Post
Are the wheels overtorqued? If you overtorque or improperly(unevenly) torque the lugs that can cause a rotor warpage.
Nope....lugs were spot on where they should have been.

My FIL wanted to have the rotors turned and I was trying to talk him out of it. For the price most places charge to turn them you can buy new aftermarket ones and install them yourself.

As it turned out, the rotors were in excellent shape. Very smooth and perfectly flat.

With new pads and everything torqued down properly it drove and stopped perfectly.
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:58 PM   #18
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According to the local Dodge dealer (before they went out-of-business), the rotors on the newer Dodge trucks are composite and shouldn't be turned.
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Old 04-03-2010, 10:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f4phantomii View Post
My bad....thread title should have been "Reason #327 I'll never buy another domestic...."

I've got a GMC Acadia....by most accounts one of the best vehicles GM ever produced. It's our first domestic (and last) vehicle.

We've had it in the shop at least 300% more than all of the other vehicles we've ever owned put together. And eveytime it goes in, it comes back with another problem.

It's a shame really....we love the vehicle....but the poor reliability is so stereotypical it's almost funny. The next problem that crops up with it will get it traded in on either a Honda Pilot or Toyota Highlander.
Don't ever go by how the vehicles are rated especially from GM. I work for a GMC dealer, and EVERYTIME I see one of those, I cringe. The media hyped them up so much, but they have so many problems.
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:03 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by f4phantomii View Post
BTW, there are now lockwahers on the bolts so it won't happen again.
I hope you did not use "hardware store" lock washers. Did you use lock washers that are designed for heavy torque and high heat? If not, they are probably going to spread open and then all the caliper bolts are going to come loose.

You may want to use the "star" type or Nord washers instead.
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:32 PM   #21
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The Jeep Grand Cherokees and the Jeep Liberty are notorious for going through front brakes every 30k miles or so.

My dad has a Liberty and it is like that.


The loose bolt is not uncommon. Your dad should do proper regular maintenance. It includes inspecting the brakes on a lift to verify the conditions of the components.
So, it's his fault.
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:41 PM   #22
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My co-worker bought a new 2009 Ram 1500 with the big-ass engine - the 5.7L Hemi I guess? It had a steering wheel shudder since it was driven off the lot. The dealership couldn't fix it (couldn't track down the issue) and so after months of verbal wrangling with the dealership he got a new 2010 Ram 1500.

Obviously they have quality control issues.
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:42 PM   #23
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I'll buy a domestic vehicle; CTS-V. I'll admit it, I like just about everything it is (besides the fact that it is domestic since I also have about 30 reasons to not like domestic spanning several vehicles). Besides that, I'll stay away for a bit until they prove themselves again. The worst case I've seen is that craptastic CVT they put in the first gen Saturn Vues. Those transmissions will never last past 100k, rarely past 75k, and some have died at 25k. They are obviously a terrible transmission. My mother's Vue was in the shop once every 2 months with random slipping (starting at mile freaking 13,000) that they never fully cured. They'd reset the ECU, ship it out. Rinse, repeat. She asked for a new transmission after about the 15th time in the shop and they wouldn't do it. Finally the trans completely went at 65,000 miles and GM stopped making them, do not support them, and charge $5,000 to locate and replace one.
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:43 PM   #24
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Quote:
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According to the local Dodge dealer (before they went out-of-business), the rotors on the newer Dodge trucks are composite and shouldn't be turned.
Composite?

Or alloy?
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:47 PM   #25
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I'll buy a domestic vehicle; CTS-V. I'll admit it, I like just about everything it is
This. You'd be retarded not to want a V.
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