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Old 04-09-2010, 03:43 AM   #26
project_skyline
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Sorry I forgot to put FKBC, FLKC is worthless if he is trying to figure out why his IAM is so low. We know its pulling timing slowly over time but we gotta find the big knock.

Knock sum usually isn't available on the many of the older wrx's.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:28 AM   #27
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I've seen plenty of evidence that an 02 WRX will often use FLKC to respond to knock. Leaving it out would be a mistake. Logging IAM + FBKC would only show half the knock activity.
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Old 04-09-2010, 09:50 PM   #28
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I drove about 50 miles today, mostly highway miles. In Phoenix today the air temp was about 85f. I took this learning veiw when I got home. IAM is zero.
Looks like I had some knock as well. I still had boost today but now is about the time of year/outside temperature that I only get waste gate open of 7 pounds. I am puzzled by why outside air temp causes this issue. If it was carbon build up or a piston issue I would think that the car would pull boost in colder air temps as well. Any ideas?

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Old 04-09-2010, 10:38 PM   #29
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Am I retarded, or was it never said if this was a stock tune or not?

Is it a tune that you could post up? Some of the IAT comps could be royally ****ed, I'd like to take a look at it. If it isn't one that can be posted you can email it to me at elevenpoint7five@gmail.com

If IAM is at 0, you had more than some knock. I apologize if you already understand this, but I'm going to explain it for anyone who doesn't in a nutshell. If you want a great read, written by someone much better with words than I, read the link I posted a few posts back.

There are 3 forms of knock control on a Subie, FBKC, FLKC, and IAM. If any of them change, there was knock. Only 1 will be active at a time, so for one to not log FLKC would be a complete waste of a log, as it could be the one active at that time. IAM is a global adjustment, it decides how much of the KCA map is added to the Base Timing map. FBKC is a reaction to knock that pulls timing, only when it sees knock, from your total timing(so IAM plays a roll here as well, but is not active). FLKC is a reactive process as well, but becomes preventative with some driving time. Basically, it will learn where the ecu sees knock constantly, and it will pull the timing from your total timing(so IAM plays a roll here as well, but is not active) once the motor gets to that region to prevent it from knocking.

We NEED a log of the IAM at 16(or 8 if it never gets to 16 and its starting point is 8) and then just keep driving until it drops. That will tell us exactly why and where it is dropping. If the timing/boost/AFR in the area where the IAM drops isn't out of whack, you will need to start looking for things rattling in the engine bay, or in the trans. If you find nothing, you should do compression and leak down tests, and based on the results either A)shim or move the sensor B)save for a motor.

Andy
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Old 04-09-2010, 11:45 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elevenpoint7five View Post
Am I retarded, or was it never said if this was a stock tune or not?
Consider reading the first line of the first post.
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Old 04-10-2010, 12:12 AM   #31
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Sigh. One of those days... :facepalm:
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Old 04-10-2010, 12:40 AM   #32
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something is seriously wrong with your car, if you live around north phoenix ill be at PKRA (phoenix kart track) all day, its near waterworld, I could take a quick look in between practice sessions and make a quick map for you if its just the tune itself and not some underlying condition.
If you do come out there i have the 4 door red 7.3 ford and kart 46
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Old 04-10-2010, 12:40 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elevenpoint7five View Post

We NEED a log of the IAM at 16(or 8 if it never gets to 16 and its starting point is 8) and then just keep driving until it drops. That will tell us exactly why and where it is dropping. If the timing/boost/AFR in the area where the IAM drops isn't out of whack, you will need to start looking for things rattling in the engine bay, or in the trans. If you find nothing, you should do compression and leak down tests, and based on the results either A)shim or move the sensor B)save for a motor.

Andy
If I reset the ECU it should be back to 8, it seems to start there.
Should I log the same things I did in the log I posted? They were:

load rpm KCA Toa Fbkc Flkc IAM Kca iam
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Old 04-10-2010, 01:30 AM   #34
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KCA is in that list twice, it should be in there 0 times.
IAM is also in the list twice, and once will do.

I'd add total ignition timing, boost (manifold relative pressure), and AFR.

I'm actually not sure how meaningful AFR is with the sensor that 16-bit ECUs use. I've heard conflicting stories about that. But with as much knock as you seem to be getting, I'm curious if your AFR is goingway off, so I'd like to see it.
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Old 04-10-2010, 11:02 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
KCA is in that list twice, it should be in there 0 times.
IAM is also in the list twice, and once will do.

I'd add total ignition timing, boost (manifold relative pressure), and AFR.

I'm actually not sure how meaningful AFR is with the sensor that 16-bit ECUs use. I've heard conflicting stories about that. But with as much knock as you seem to be getting, I'm curious if your AFR is goingway off, so I'd like to see it.

Yeah, this.

The front o2 does ok, but it only reads so far, that's its problem.
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:23 PM   #36
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You have something rattling in your engine bay. Do you have your intercooler hooked up to 2 brackets?

I had IAM 0 last month, kept wondering why, as soon as I found a bolt and bought a missing IC bracket, ran like a champ.
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Old 04-12-2010, 04:23 AM   #37
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Take your car to someone already... Its obvious something is wrong whether mechanically or with the tune.
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Old 04-12-2010, 12:47 PM   #38
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I did a top end clean over the weekend. Berryman makes a 3 part kit, kinda reminded me of the ones we used at UTI 7 years ago. It comes with a hose that has a flow restrictor and an aerator so it gets pulled in at the right pace. More logging this week and I'll probaly do a compression test this weekend just for the fun of it. 100 octane race gas is the next move as well. I still have toomuch 91 in the tank but I should burn that this week. Thanks for every ones helpfull advice, especially on how to interpret the data logs. I am having a ton of fun with my new Tactrix.
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:08 PM   #39
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My advice is buy a WB02 kit next. I like the innovative LC-1 with gauge or the AEM one.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:37 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
I am very curious if 100oct makes a difference.

So far I lean very heavily toward the "stock timing is ridiculous" theory as I have seen improvements from reducing timing, but if the problem goes away with 100oct that would settle the question IMO.
I put 5 gallons of 100 octane in a tank on E and after driving 70 miles pulled this learning view. On a stock car with a stock tune would this lead to believe that I have carbon build up or a piston issue? I am going to do a compression test this weekend.

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Old 04-16-2010, 12:34 AM   #41
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A previous LV, quoted for comparison...



You are still knocking, but it looks like you are knocking a lot less.

IAM is at maximum, and it doesn't show more than 1.4 degrees from any one cell. It pulls 1.4 each time it 'learns' a knock correction, so those are generally only a minor concern. It's when you see more than that pulled that you have to get worried.

If your stock tune is similar to another 02 WRX ROM I have in front of me, it has about 8 degrees of dynamic advance above 1.0 load. In the IAM=0 learning view, it pulled all of that timing (by setting IAM to 0), and it still knocked, so it pulled even more timing (as seen in the FLKC table). In the new learning view, it pulled 1.4 in few places, and in some of those places it didn't hear knock for a while, so it started adding timing back in.

Root cause? I don't know. Could be a crappy stock tune, could be carbon deposits, could be something else. But I think we can rule out noise since the problem got a lot better with high octane fuel.

Let us know how the compression test comes out.

Last edited by NSFW; 04-16-2010 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:16 AM   #42
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Get a re-tune or at least a new base map. Hell I'll make you one for free.
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Old 04-16-2010, 07:52 AM   #43
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Switch out to the AF426 (A4SGE01C) ROM and see if that helps. Your running the AF423

http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.p...patibilityList
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Old 04-16-2010, 05:32 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
I put 5 gallons of 100 octane in a tank on E and after driving 70 miles pulled this learning view. On a stock car with a stock tune would this lead to believe that I have carbon build up or a piston issue? I am going to do a compression test this weekend.
Told ya I would imagine that it's just the crappy stock tune. Follow the advice below, it's very good!
Quote:
Originally Posted by quazimoto View Post
Switch out to the AF426 (A4SGE01C) ROM and see if that helps. Your running the AF423

http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.p...patibilityList
This advice

Andy
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Old 04-16-2010, 11:50 PM   #45
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I will switch the ROM to the A4SGE01C and give it a try. Thanks for your continued assistance.
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Old 04-20-2010, 01:52 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
I drove about 50 miles today, mostly highway miles. In Phoenix today the air temp was about 85f. I took this learning veiw when I got home. IAM is zero.
Looks like I had some knock as well. I still had boost today but now is about the time of year/outside temperature that I only get waste gate open of 7 pounds. I am puzzled by why outside air temp causes this issue. If it was carbon build up or a piston issue I would think that the car would pull boost in colder air temps as well. Any ideas?

with a car adding that much fuel - has anyone considered clogged/failing injectors? fuel pump?

I am in no way a professional tuner or mechanic but from what I have done it looks like a fuel related issue with the info given.
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Old 04-20-2010, 02:17 AM   #47
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i don't think its 'that' much fuel. he could probably tweak his maf scaling a bit but i don't think its the underlying issue here. I think the AZ 91 is equivalent to 87 octane in other parts with 'good' gas and that is why he's having issues. Along with an old rom.

i'm on stand by to see how your new updated rom works out for ya
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:09 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobystas View Post
i don't think its 'that' much fuel. he could probably tweak his maf scaling a bit but i don't think its the underlying issue here. I think the AZ 91 is equivalent to 87 octane in other parts with 'good' gas and that is why he's having issues. Along with an old rom.
I wouldn't ever argue that AZ and CA gas is good - I live in CA and our 91 is terrible compared to other states. However I owned an 02 for a couple years with over 100k on it and did LV's pretty consistently, I only ever saw a positive trim one time and it was less than 1% - just my $0.02
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:10 PM   #49
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+/- 5% is considered acceptable by most tuners. Subaru apparently thinks differently. The ecu will learn up to 14.xx% and can correct on demand another 25% on top of that. He's fine

Andy
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:12 AM   #50
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I have a slight delay in swaping out the ROM. When I ordered my cable from Tactrix I also ordered the jumper block but they did'nt send it. I tinned up a couple of jumper wires but when I tried to read my ECU there was an error message. I made 5 or 6 attempts to read and also did a test write, but received the error message each time. I emailed Tactrix and they said they would send the jumper block but never did and then stoped responding to my emails. I ordered the jumper from SPX and it should be here in a few days.
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