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Old 04-07-2010, 10:51 AM   #1
leecea
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Default How long for the computer to "learn"?

I'm having problems with my car and making changes to try and fix it. I'm using Learning View to look for improvements in IAM and timing correction.

How long should I expect to wait (drive time or miles) to see if a physical change has resulted in an improvement?
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Old 04-07-2010, 12:51 PM   #2
quazimoto
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Depends on what your looking at. IAM should be instant but fuel trims might take 50-100+ miles.
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Old 04-07-2010, 01:04 PM   #3
leecea
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OK. So I'm really confused if IAM corrects "instantly".

I reset my ECU and ran the car for a few days. IAM was 16 and Learning View was clean - no timing pulled. It was great.

Then I check again a few days later and IAM was 11 and timing tables show positive and negative values all over the place.

I assumed that was because the car took a while to "learn" that something was wrong.

If the corrections happen very quickly, that means the ECU detected some change after a few days, though nothing physical was changed in that period and I didn't drive any differently
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Old 04-07-2010, 05:52 PM   #4
quazimoto
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Post a screen shot of the Learning View. The ECU doesn't "learn something is wrong". Sometimes events happen that are not always repeatable or consistent. Like false knock due to a lose part or bad/wrong gas. List your mods and what changes you have made to the car lately.
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Old 04-07-2010, 11:56 PM   #5
NSFW
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It probably varies between cars, but on my car, FWIW, the IAM goes to 0.5 after a reflash, and will stay there if I just putter around the neighborhood at 25-35mph. But it will always go to 1.0 as soon as I find a freeway ramp. However I tweaked it a while ago so the IAM start at 1.0 after a reflash. There's a table for that.

The fuel trims take around 5-10 minutes of driving in each airflow range, assuming the MAF scaling isn't wacky (i.e. the trim increases at one end of the range, and decreases at the other end of the range, so it never settles down).

The FLKC table... like Quazimoto said, knock isn't always repeatable. If your tune is good you'll still get some random knocks in the FLKC table. If your tune sucks you'll see a pattern in it fairly quickly.
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:52 AM   #6
leecea
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My car is on the original stock tune and the only changes are a Subaru catless uppipe and silicon IC hoses. After doing the upipe and hoses, I had to change the front O2 sensor due a code for heater malfunction in that sensor. I just cleaned the MAF in case that helped.

I did not log anything before changing the uppipe and IC hose, so I can't tell if that caused anything or if it has been like this for a while.

Here are two LVs taken a few days apart:





Here is a 2nd gear pull from a few days ago:

http://home.comcast.net/~leecea/log.htm

Thanks.
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Old 04-08-2010, 10:57 AM   #7
XanRules
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as a safety measure, I always let the car idle 10 minutes after I reconnect the battery. That helps a bit in my experience.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:12 AM   #8
scoobystas
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what i noticed is that after a reset, my avcs doesn't kick in for like 10mins of driving. I have sorta figured out that i need to drive it, then shut it down, then restart and my avcs will kick in.

maybe i should try to let it idle for 10 and see if it kicks in right as i start pulling off after the idle, we'll see

btw, for me it seems like it needs a tank of gas to learn the long term fuel trims. As fas as IAM goes, if you make a pull and car doesn't see any knock than your IAM should go right up to 16.

your learning view shows lots of pulled timing, and areas of added timing, meaning timing was pulled in the past in those areas. You might wanna tweak your timing buy pulling a degree or two in the areas that show knock, but make sure its very smooth, no steps in timing from one load to another. use the 'timing editor' tool in the romraider forums.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:23 AM   #9
scoobystas
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hey man,

try to set up your airflow ranges and columns similar to this, it gives you better resolution of your data and its easier to figure out in exactly what ranges your car is experiencing FLKC.

as fas as the D range goes you can keep it at 50+



btw, this is done through the 'knock' section of your rom when you open it with romraider
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:15 PM   #10
leecea
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Thanks for all your suggestions but I want to stay with the stock tune. I'm just trying to understand if something is physically wrong, so I can fix it. Maybe a leak or a rattle or something?

The only symptoms I have found are an odd noise just around 3K rpms, like a slight rattle or buzz. Happens as I rev past 3K and as I let off and the rpms drop through 3K. Only happens for second. Maybe I'm hearing the turbo?

I have also noticed that when I sit with Romraider showing the #1 Knock Sensor signal, even stationary at idle, it is flashing a 1 every few seconds. I can't really be knocking at idle (can I?), so something must be showing up as fake knock. Or is that normal?

Other than that, I can't find anything to fix and I'm stuck.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:14 PM   #11
NSFW
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Read this before you make another data log, that one wasn't useful:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic5384.html
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:33 PM   #12
leecea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
Read this before you make another data log, that one wasn't useful:
http://www.romraider.com/forum/topic5384.html
I have read that, but obviously not well enough I'll try again.
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Old 04-08-2010, 11:31 PM   #13
NSFW
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Section 5 is the part you missed.
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