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Old 04-08-2010, 12:13 PM   #1
rexblake
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Default 2.0 + Dom 3.0XT-R + E85 makes 392whp

Event: dyno pull
Location: The Boost Creep, Mead CO
Ambient Temp:
Elevation: 5000
Weather: sunny, cool
Track and Conditions: NA
Tires: stock rims with blizzaks

Car: 02 WRX
Tuner: Harvey, The Boost Creep
Dyno Info: Dyno Dynamics
[color=black]Peak HP: 392 on E85, 350 on pump CF 1.15
Peak Torque at RPM: 310
Baseline hp/tq for a stock on same dyno: 2.0 160whp
Target Boost: 27
Target AFR:
Fuel: E85
Engine/Power Modifications:
ej207 short block:
JE pistons
Eagle Rods
crank drilled
balanced
nitride coated crank

ej205 heads with BC:
Valves
Springs
Retainers
272 Cams

APS 525 fmic, Borla hush catback, 1000cc DW, Perrin Fuel Rails, Perrin Big maf, grimmspeed everything, tial 38mm ewg, invidia dp, walbro 255, APS 50/50 bov, ATI damper, zeitronix map, samco inlet, Apexi AVCR

Driveline Modifications: ACT streetlite flywheel, ACT sprung six puck, RA gear set, Group N engine mounts

Suspension Modifications: Tein basic coilovers, hotchkiss swaybars and endlinks

91 octane, 22psi


E85, 27psi

Runs very well on the street. Transitions nice, spools quicker than the dyno (4800rpm on the street), although it does take a second to spool even when dropping down gears. Actually makes for a very nice DD, much to my surprise. Powers there if I want it, just have to go get it. It does sounds absolutely amazing.

All in all, I like it. I figured no matter what I would have a high strung engine, which I enjoy. Debating whether or not to raise the rev limiter, maybe get another 500rpm out of it. For now though, this is just fine.
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Last edited by rexblake; 07-18-2010 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:19 PM   #2
xsnapshot
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holy-lag!

If your happy that is all that matters, but it seems to me you could've gotten a different turbo to make that power on the 2.0L EJ207 with at least 1000 RPM quicker spool up.

The XT-R has a 10cm exhaust housing correct? That's just massive for a 2.0L....

What is a safe redline for your motor?
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:27 PM   #3
rexblake
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Yeah, lag was expected. Harvey mentioned that all gt3076 variants spool around 5500 on his dyno. I knew going in it was going to be laggy. But, I wanted top end power, and I definitely have that.

I highly doubt I could have gotten anywhere close to this kind of power with a smaller turbo. In fact, no chance in hell. My 68hta only put down 342 on the same kind of dyno. Both dynos are withing 10whp for stock cars. I could get better spool by twinscrolling and going rotated, maybe another 500rpm or so. That's about the only option though.

Safe redline is debatable. The guys in japan are running the ej207 to 8200 on track days. Some here in the states are going to 8500, just have to watch out for oiling issues. The engine and heads should be able to take it to 9k, but I think that would be asking for trouble, I wouldn't go above 8500.

Last edited by rexblake; 04-08-2010 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:31 PM   #4
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idk man....seems really really really laggy. if you're gonna run e85 all the time you should just switch back to a tmic.....
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Old 04-08-2010, 12:41 PM   #5
rexblake
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That's not a bad idea. Maybe down the road if I get sick of the lag.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:01 PM   #6
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lag bot
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:33 PM   #7
Phatron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexblake View Post
APS 50/50 bov,
Apexi AVCR
i would do 3 experiments on your car.

1 - get a different BOV......preferably switch back to a bpv.

2 - take the line off your wastegate and see what the boost does

3 - incase you are scared to do #2.....hook a hallman mbc up and see how your boost does without the avcr.
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Old 04-08-2010, 02:16 PM   #8
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That's really a poor choice of exhaust housings for that application and turbo. With the EWG, you can actually get away with running a very small exhaust housing and still flow enough to make good power. I would be willing to bet that an 8cm housing will spool the turbo a good 700-800RPM sooner and easily make within 10whp of the current power levels. Hell, you could even flow that power through a 7cm housing + EWG and get 1000RPM quicker spool and GREATLY improved transient response without losing significant power at all.

I just don't understand this move to the giant exhaust housings for relatively small compressors. Why would you want to give up response without gaining any significant power capability?

-- Ed
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Old 04-08-2010, 02:46 PM   #9
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was the 91pump graph done in 1st gear?
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Old 04-08-2010, 03:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
was the 91pump graph done in 1st gear?
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Old 04-08-2010, 04:12 PM   #11
rexworx
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First of all I glad to hear the car feels good.

Ed do you feel the same way about the 10cm the same way about the 2.5 with worked heads and cams?

Im thinking about swapping from the 8cm to the 10cm housing on my dom3. Not the whole XT-R upgrade, just the turbine housing.

Sorry to jack your thread.
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Old 04-08-2010, 04:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexworx View Post
First of all I glad to hear the car feels good.

Ed do you feel the same way about the 10cm the same way about the 2.5 with worked heads and cams?

Im thinking about swapping from the 8cm to the 10cm housing on my dom3. Not the whole XT-R upgrade, just the turbine housing.

Sorry to jack your thread.
Yes, I believe the 10cm housing is just oversized for the compressors they're running. Its better matched for the DOM 4, but for the smaller compressors, those housings are just adding lag for no significant power gains.

-- Ed
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
Yes, I believe the 10cm housing is just oversized for the compressors they're running. Its better matched for the DOM 4, but for the smaller compressors, those housings are just adding lag for no significant power gains.

-- Ed
I'm glad someone else feels that way too.

I asked Blouch to make me a 3.0 XT-R with an 8cm hotside but they declined .

Maybe I can have it done at a tuner shop...
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:19 PM   #14
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You have very little usable power band on 91 pump. Also, hurting you is the non-avcs heads and cam. I have to agree with the others, that the Dom 3 xt-r 10cm is too large for your setup.

I was able to make 324whp/300whp on my 2.0L with stock heads, cams, airbox, iwg, cat, and sti tmic on 91 pump with the Tomei single scroll 7760 turbo.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1962172

I think i can make 340-350ish whp with 70+mm cai, ewg, and larger TMIC and between 380-390+ whp on e85 (including the additional mods).

I think you'll make the same peak power as you make now, but with a more usable powerband with a smaller turbo. Something along the lines of a 20g
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Old 04-08-2010, 08:50 PM   #15
Equilibrium Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stidoc View Post
I'm glad someone else feels that way too.

I asked Blouch to make me a 3.0 XT-R with an 8cm hotside but they declined .

Maybe I can have it done at a tuner shop...
I have a feeling Blouch invested a lot into their 10cm housings so they're just trying to re-coup their costs by running that housing on every turbo they make. Good for short term business, not so good for overall performance.

-- Ed
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:51 AM   #16
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is this the final tune???
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:52 AM   #17
rexblake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equilibrium Tuning View Post
That's really a poor choice of exhaust housings for that application and turbo. With the EWG, you can actually get away with running a very small exhaust housing and still flow enough to make good power. I would be willing to bet that an 8cm housing will spool the turbo a good 700-800RPM sooner and easily make within 10whp of the current power levels. Hell, you could even flow that power through a 7cm housing + EWG and get 1000RPM quicker spool and GREATLY improved transient response without losing significant power at all.

I just don't understand this move to the giant exhaust housings for relatively small compressors. Why would you want to give up response without gaining any significant power capability?

-- Ed
I tried that and it did not work. My 68hta lost all power after 6500rpm, dropping 60whp to redline. Clearly the 7cm is way to small for my setup. This could possibly be due to the fact that it's plummed back into the dp, not sure. I wanted a turbo with top end power, this I know have. The 2.5xt-r would probably be the better choice for all around use, but would not come nearly as close to the power I wanted.

As for the dom 3 with the 8cm housing, harvey has one on his car with a 2.5 and makes 30whp less than me. Same dyno.

The 91 map is solely for transition purposes. I run E85 year round. That's what it wanted to do without adjusting timing crazy or boost.

I don't understand why people are surprised at the lag on this motor. At altitude, 2.0, 2.4inlet with a fmic. Pretty much right where it was expected to be.

If I get really sick of the lag I can always throw the 68hta back on with a larger exhaust side. So far, it has just as much power putzing around town with much higher top end. Don't see the issue, just have to get used to it.
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Old 04-09-2010, 11:20 AM   #18
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The 68hta has a much smaller compressor than the Dom 3 so of course it will make significantly less power. I'm talking about running the same compressor with a smaller hot side. As long as you're running an EWG, you shouldn't lose much power potential at all.

-- Ed
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Old 04-09-2010, 12:19 PM   #19
rexblake
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I understand the 68hta is going to make less power. What I'm saying is that with the 7cm hot side I had no top end power. None, zilch, nada. It spooled at 4k and dropped at 6500, which gave me a 2500rpm power band.

I logged last night, full spool by 4800 on the street. Which gives me a 3200rpm power band with much more power. Hopefully I can adjust the avcr some more and see if I can't get it spooling even quicker.
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:08 PM   #20
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just disconnect the wastegate and go WOT and see if you spool faster......then you know its the avcr settings.

dont do a full pull as you wouldnt have any boost control....but it will show you if the avcr is holding u back
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
just disconnect the wastegate and go WOT and see if you spool faster......then you know its the avcr settings.

dont do a full pull as you wouldnt have any boost control....but it will show you if the avcr is holding u back
Good advice, that's how I do the spool up tuning on my car. You definitely have to watch the boost gauge though, and catch it before it makes all the boost it wants.
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Old 04-09-2010, 01:46 PM   #22
Equilibrium Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexblake View Post
I understand the 68hta is going to make less power. What I'm saying is that with the 7cm hot side I had no top end power. None, zilch, nada. It spooled at 4k and dropped at 6500, which gave me a 2500rpm power band.

I logged last night, full spool by 4800 on the street. Which gives me a 3200rpm power band with much more power. Hopefully I can adjust the avcr some more and see if I can't get it spooling even quicker.
You're still not quite getting it here... The reason the 68hta was dropping off on the top end is because the compressor is much smaller and was falling out of its efficiency range up top. Its not specifically because of the 7cm exhaust housing that turbo had. You can't assume from that data that ANY OTHER turbo with a 7cm exhaust housing would drop off on the top end the same way.

Here's an example. This is an STI I tuned several years ago with an FP Red with a 7cm exhaust housing running an EWG tuned on C16 at about 30psi:


As you can see, the 7cm housing with an EWG is capable of flowing quite a bit more air than your setup while still providing exceptional spool for the size of the compressor and the power capability. This is obviously not an apples to apples comparison; it just shows that the size of the exhaust housing on your 68hta was not necessarily the limiting factor.

Thanks
-- Ed

Last edited by Equilibrium Tuning; 04-09-2010 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 04-09-2010, 02:14 PM   #23
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i don't know what to say....
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Old 04-09-2010, 03:20 PM   #24
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The HTA68 uses TD05H turbine, so you can't really compare housing sizes, it also depends on the turbine wheel which is used. In my opinion the HTA68 is just at the limit for a 7cm turbine housing with TD05H turbine wheel. Any bigger compressor (in combination with the TD05H turbine) and a 8cm housing gives more power.

The DOM would perform much better on this 2.0 liter engine with a 8cm turbine housing.
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Old 04-09-2010, 04:04 PM   #25
Thomas Ruble
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What really matters is how the car feels on the road.... Care to elaborate?

Tom
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