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Old 04-10-2010, 11:37 AM   #1
Shifter Kart
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Default So I'm turning my rallycar into a circuit car...

Hey guys, went through the stickies in the suspension board but couldnt find what I was looking for, so help me out here.

My current Sti is gonna be a track car from now on, so we bought another 2 door for donor parts(that will become the rally car in the next few months). We took a set of Tein Super Streets of it for the track car. Now, yes, super streets one would assume are too soft for track use, but I figured it may be suitable seeing as out local track is quite bumpy. Turns out, they are wayyyyy too soft
so I'm looking ot upgrade. I want to buy a set of Super Racing coilovers. Why? I have a friend who is class champion for 2008-2009 who uses them on his STi. However that is a last resort for me.
I was thinking of buyign stiffer springs for the dampers I have now. But I am worried that they may end up underdamped. Am I right in this assumption? and if so can someone give me a technical explanation why?

in terms of sway bars, I'm looking at some Whiteline 27mm front and rear. yes/no? (tires I use are Hoosier R6)

in case someoen asks for information about our track (only one on the island) here are some vids

friend's STi doing his thing

here's an onboard shot of the whole track


yes, we have serious spectator safety issues here. Let's not get into that
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Old 04-10-2010, 12:06 PM   #2
wagonryan
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no issues, about time some fans had some fun... looks like a blast man. No input on suspension but that's a killer track

is that red hatch in the first vid a Peugeot or a civic?

Last edited by wagonryan; 04-10-2010 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 04-10-2010, 12:20 PM   #3
Ralliart4
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SK dude i told you already dont waste your time just ask me you have my IM, and WJ info hell you can even call me...

You can run the whitelines and adjust or just us a strano 30 like in my car.
Rear is a 27 perrin
All bushings replaced with sold rose
all support areas are boxed to reduce flex
all mounting points are boxed to reduce flex

the weakest point I have are my tein dirt trial coilovers 5kg/5kg but it fits my tossing and control driving style, for someone with as much kart and open wheel (formula BMW) time as you im sure your more inclined to have as much mechincal grip as possible aka stiff.

Yes I drive my car every day and the 240sx is even more hard than the wrx.

Last edited by Ralliart4; 04-10-2010 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 04-10-2010, 12:53 PM   #4
SonicScooby27
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at 7 minutes into the first video, what were those guys yelling? lol...that was an insane video..haha...i never knew jamaica had such a car / racing crowd...really cool!
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Old 04-10-2010, 07:16 PM   #5
Shifter Kart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagonryan View Post
no issues, about time some fans had some fun... looks like a blast man. No input on suspension but that's a killer track

is that red hatch in the first vid a Peugeot or a civic?
Civic. at one point it used to leave a pair of black marks down every straight on the track, only interruptions would be where he changed gear.
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Old 04-10-2010, 07:25 PM   #6
Shifter Kart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicScooby27 View Post
at 7 minutes into the first video, what were those guys yelling? lol...that was an insane video..haha...i never knew jamaica had such a car / racing crowd...really cool!
the meet after that had a crowd of around ~15,000





nobody else has any advice? I'm set on the swarbars but not sure what to do about the dampers/springs
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Old 04-10-2010, 07:43 PM   #7
jamal
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my wheels fit

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teins are generally not very good. How about a set of these:

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Old 04-11-2010, 01:25 PM   #8
Ralliart4
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Why are teins generally not very good thats a very vague statment can you support it in any way.
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Old 04-11-2010, 03:11 PM   #9
shane86
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if your going to be serious, save yourself alot of hedaches down the road with development and buy some good high end shocks right now. higher end kw, ZZYZX (Koni), motons, ast.. etc.. are all going to fetch you big time over lower end hardware like a tien setup.

the big difference is their damping through the range of travel. higher end shocks are very consistent yielding better control through transitions. lower end stuff tends to not only be less adjustable, but are fairly lumpy through their travel at different adjustment levels.

on alot of those lower end shocks, this can be fixed by having them re-valved, but the cost of re-valving and the price of a new setup, your at the level of a higher end piece, and most of the high end companies will help you have them valved correctly the first time to custom specs at little/no extra charge if the off the shelf valving will not be a perfect fit for what your trying to do.
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Old 04-12-2010, 12:13 AM   #10
jamal
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well, I guess I should say that I've never seen anything particularly good come from tein, and we've never had any reason to use their products over something else. We deal directly with KW, AST, and JRZ, so when we want something specific it's easy to just say hey, I need a set of these shocks with this valving, and they get made for us.
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:29 AM   #11
thewerxracing
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Does anyone else wanna go racing in Jamaica now?
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Old 04-12-2010, 11:47 AM   #12
omahasubaru
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Don't count out AST Suspension at all. They make quality stuff!
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:28 AM   #13
Shifter Kart
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jamal, replied to you PM as well as sent an email to Robispec. Hope someone answers (strangely, of the 4 or so places I've sent emails too last week, none have replied )
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Old 04-14-2010, 03:08 PM   #14
garageGT
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you need some monotube design coilovers to be competitive.. the cheapest monos i know are the buddyclub racing specs. I used them for a while with 10/8kg swift springs before i stepped up to cusco zero3s. The set is still here, its a 02-07 WRX & 04 STi fitment. If you like i can send them over dirt cheap
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Old 04-14-2010, 10:29 PM   #15
jamal
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so, by that logic, those buddy clubs are better than, say, a KW race shock because they're monotube?
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:19 PM   #16
logic246
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For dampers Shifter i would recommend a set of proper proflex , do not cut cost with this section of the car.
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:27 PM   #17
livesockets
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AST's are the *****. I've been looking at those for the m3 of late. quick n cheap rebuilds too if you are in the states.
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:33 PM   #18
garageGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamal View Post
so, by that logic, those buddy clubs are better than, say, a KW race shock because they're monotube?
nope, but I think they are best bang for the buck for street/some track use. Mine are valved for 10/8kgs..I threw the suggestion in when i saw op considered tein super streets.
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Old 04-15-2010, 06:19 PM   #19
Shifter Kart
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shane86 View Post
if your going to be serious, save yourself alot of hedaches down the road with development and buy some good high end shocks right now. higher end kw, ZZYZX (Koni), motons, ast.. etc.. are all going to fetch you big time over lower end hardware like a tien setup.

the big difference is their damping through the range of travel. higher end shocks are very consistent yielding better control through transitions. lower end stuff tends to not only be less adjustable, but are fairly lumpy through their travel at different adjustment levels.

on alot of those lower end shocks, this can be fixed by having them re-valved, but the cost of re-valving and the price of a new setup, your at the level of a higher end piece, and most of the high end companies will help you have them valved correctly the first time to custom specs at little/no extra charge if the off the shelf valving will not be a perfect fit for what your trying to do.
you're saying Tein Super Racing dampers are low-end dampers?

the Super Streets yes, but the SR's?
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:37 PM   #20
Vaughn Performance
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewerxracing View Post
Does anyone else wanna go racing in Jamaica now?
Hahaha.....I was thinking the same thing LOL It just looks like it's so "gloves off" style of racing out there.
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:38 PM   #21
Vaughn Performance
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To the OP your going to get two major, and, completely different ideologies from folks as far as what makes a car go quick around a race track suspension set wise.

Camp#1 will state that to achieve maximum performance and handling at the track you will need extremely stiff suspension to control body motion, and keep maximum amount of tire on the ground by preventing roll etc....This camp will also usually lean towards Japanese coilovers, as they provide this type of damping. Brands usually like Tein, HKS, Zeal, Cusco etc...

Camp#2 will state that to achieve maximum performance and handling at the track it's better to have "relatively" softer set up that will be more compliant over bumps surface changes and other imperfections in the road, which will allow the tire to achieve maximum traction by "flowing" over these imperfections and maintaining tire contact, rather then bouncing over them. This camp will usually lean more towards European brands like KW, Ohlins, Bilstein, AST etc....

I'm super "nut shelling" things here, but generally, these are the ways of thinking. This isn't to say that there isn't any folks running European dampers that don't agree with ideology#1, or vice a verse but for the most part this is the way things go.

I personally place myself into camp#2, and am thus bias toward this opinion. In many motorsports, and at many levels things are starting to head in this direction that will help support this fact. In your situation especially, I would consider a coilover set up that can be compliant enough to absorb what appears to be a pretty rough track, while still being able to control the springs as well as body motion.

-Anthony
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:43 PM   #22
Viperguy324
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Stick with KW or Bilstein... and ask them to set the struts up for the ring...
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:33 PM   #23
Shifter Kart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaughn Performance View Post
To the OP your going to get two major, and, completely different ideologies from folks as far as what makes a car go quick around a race track suspension set wise.

Camp#1 will state that to achieve maximum performance and handling at the track you will need extremely stiff suspension to control body motion, and keep maximum amount of tire on the ground by preventing roll etc....This camp will also usually lean towards Japanese coilovers, as they provide this type of damping. Brands usually like Tein, HKS, Zeal, Cusco etc...

Camp#2 will state that to achieve maximum performance and handling at the track it's better to have "relatively" softer set up that will be more compliant over bumps surface changes and other imperfections in the road, which will allow the tire to achieve maximum traction by "flowing" over these imperfections and maintaining tire contact, rather then bouncing over them. This camp will usually lean more towards European brands like KW, Ohlins, Bilstein, AST etc....

I'm super "nut shelling" things here, but generally, these are the ways of thinking. This isn't to say that there isn't any folks running European dampers that don't agree with ideology#1, or vice a verse but for the most part this is the way things go.

I personally place myself into camp#2, and am thus bias toward this opinion. In many motorsports, and at many levels things are starting to head in this direction that will help support this fact. In your situation especially, I would consider a coilover set up that can be compliant enough to absorb what appears to be a pretty rough track, while still being able to control the springs as well as body motion.

-Anthony
Never thought of it that way.
I assume camp#2 will also tend to run stiffer swaybars as well, correct?
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:10 PM   #24
joshuaj
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What gearbox are you running?
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:12 PM   #25
Shifter Kart
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stock RA 5 speed (R and RA use the same ratios)
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