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Old 04-18-2010, 12:57 PM   #76
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Sadly nothing happened. They both should have been nailed for it. 10 spot grid penalty in the next race would have been my choice. There's a reason that the moving lane is two cars wide in the pits. Watch Vettel start at the left side of it and then pinch down on Hamilton at the end of pit lane.

Vettel is quietly showing his hard ass side by messing with Hamilton in that situation and out on course during a restart when he pushed Hamilton into Webber. Vettel is going to ride his good boy image as long as he can and do that.
But Hamilton was the bigger dick of the two...clearly. Seb just wanted to make sure Hami did not get away with anything.

Prediction: stewards make decision this week to give Hami a "present" for the next race.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:06 PM   #77
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But Hamilton was the bigger dick of the two...clearly. Seb just wanted to make sure Hami did not get away with anything.

Prediction: stewards make decision this week to give Hami a "present" for the next race.
No. Vettel was the bigger dick by pinching the pit lane. Hamilton was just dumb. No way should they penalize one and not the other.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:25 PM   #78
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No. Vettel was the bigger dick by pinching the pit lane. Hamilton was just dumb. No way should they penalize one and not the other.
Wrong, the speed is limited. Vet had the advantage.. Ham should have dropped and followed. It was stupid for him to think he could get around while on the pit limiter...

I also think Ham will get a little gift. His pit dive would get him into **** with most orgs.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:28 PM   #79
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But Hamilton was the bigger dick of the two...clearly.
Clearly not, that's the discussion. Is the pitlane legally two cars wide? At some tracks it narrows enough at the end that Hami would have needed to fall back. But here there was room until Vettel started to push him over. The incident was under investigation, did the FIA rule on it yet?

And Vettel certainly was making a move on Hami after the second restart, which pushed him towards Webber who seemed to be the one whining at that point. Certainly looked like a racing incident *if* it is legal to pass before start/finish (which I think it is).
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:32 PM   #80
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Nothing happened, not entirely sure why. Also not sure how Vettel didn't get a penalty for holding up the grid under the first safety car, or how Button didn't get a penalty for stopping the entire grid on the track before the end of the 2nd safety car. Also not sure how Hamy and Vettel didn't get penalties for passing before the yellow (or Hamilton for pushing Webber off track either.) I guess its nice that the stewards aren't penalizing drivers as much...but it also makes me wonder why you have the rules in the first place if you aren't going to penalize anyone?
Which yellow were they passing under? Do you mean under the second safey car? When they both made their moves the SC was gone and the track was green right?

Everyone bunches up the field, that's a tough one to make clearcut. IMO Button made a bad job of it but I don't know if it is worthy of a penalty. I didn't notice Vettel doing it.

Lots of pushy driving by lots of drivers today. Hami lead the way but the other were close behind. FA pushing Massa out of the way in the pitlane was hilarious.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:39 PM   #81
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Which yellow were they passing under? Do you mean under the second safey car? When they both made their moves the SC was gone and the track was green right?

Everyone bunches up the field, that's a tough one to make clearcut. IMO Button made a bad job of it but I don't know if it is worthy of a penalty. I didn't notice Vettel doing it.

Lots of pushy driving by lots of drivers today. Hami lead the way but the other were close behind. FA pushing Massa out of the way in the pitlane was hilarious.
I meant safety car. On the 2nd one, when Button basically stopped on track (which is against the rules, especially that much) Hamilton went off track to avoid hitting someone, and then going into the last turn, Hamilton went under Webber, Vettel went under Hamilton, and Hamilton then forced Webber wide. You're not allowed to pass under the safety car (unless the other car goes off track) so I'm not sure how something illegal didn't happen.

Bunching up the field is okay, but when you have a kilometer to slow down, and do it all at the last moment (I've never seen the grid bunch up that much) that is a bit wrong.

Vettel had to have slowed down the grid, he came in under the 1st safety car after Webber, but somehow didn't stack in the pit stop, despite being right behind him.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:53 PM   #82
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You're not allowed to pass under the safety car (unless the other car goes off track) so I'm not sure how something illegal didn't happen.
That's the unclear area to me: the SC was done at that point, the course was green. Green flags were waving at that corner (before the line). Button had taken off, these guys were racing again. In some series you cannot change order until you pass start/finish, I believe F1 allows you to start racing once the green is waved. If not they certainly should not be waving a green flag back there.

Why was the second SC deployed? I never saw a reason for it.
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:11 PM   #83
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:33 PM   #84
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Yeah, wtf is up with that.
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:41 PM   #85
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This is total BS..
Is it? What rule did he break?
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:10 PM   #86
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Is it? What rule did he break?
30.3a

The lines signal the track... he crossed them. So he was off the track.

Seeing as none of commentators said much, I'm guessing this is overlooked in F1.. But if you did this in a lower level your PeePee would get the stick.

If he would not have pulled off the pit lane drag, I think more would come of it... the pit lane deal is bigger. As you cannot go 2 wide in pitlane... It may not be in the rules... but I understand they have already been warned.

Last edited by Viperguy324; 04-18-2010 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:17 PM   #87
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That's the unclear area to me: the SC was done at that point, the course was green. Green flags were waving at that corner (before the line). Button had taken off, these guys were racing again. In some series you cannot change order until you pass start/finish, I believe F1 allows you to start racing once the green is waved. If not they certainly should not be waving a green flag back there.

Why was the second SC deployed? I never saw a reason for it.
You can't pass till the line, thats been the rule forever. The green flag is so that those who are behind know that the race is going back green, but that lap is still being run under yellow.

I believe the second safety car was deployed to get the debris from Alguersuari's car out of the pitlane.
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:22 PM   #88
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Did Hammy not pass SV in the pit entrance?

Forget the stuff at exit. SV appeared to be have entered the pits porperly, and Hammy drove up the inside within the pit entrance...
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:23 PM   #89
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there was a lot of sketchy stuff today. it did not seem like a f1 race at all.
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:50 PM   #90
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I stand by my conviction that all race tracks used by F1 should have sprinklers installed to make every race a wet race. They seem to be much more interesting.
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:51 PM   #91
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According to Eurosport, Vettel and shammy have been "reprimanded" for the pitlane action. No word about Button bunching up the field though. The rules are pretty clear on that, too.
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:58 PM   #92
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30.3a

The lines signal the track... he crossed them. So he was off the track.

Seeing as none of commentators said much, I'm guessing this is overlooked in F1.. But if you did this in a lower level your PeePee would get the stick.
People were going off course all over the place, someone (Massa?) went off into the gravel on the pit entrance a la Hami 2007. Hami's move was stupid but I don't think it deserved a penalty. He lost time as a result, a Ferrari nipped past him.
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:03 PM   #93
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Wrong, the speed is limited. Vet had the advantage.. Ham should have dropped and followed. It was stupid for him to think he could get around while on the pit limiter...

I also think Ham will get a little gift. His pit dive would get him into **** with most orgs.
Half the racing in F1 would get them into **** with "most orgs". Yeah, Hamilton wasn't gonna get past, but Vettel pushed him onto the apron and kept him there. Equal blame, equal punishment.
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:05 PM   #94
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You can't pass till the line, thats been the rule forever. The green flag is so that those who are behind know that the race is going back green, but that lap is still being run under yellow.
From F1.com:
Quote:
40.7 All competing cars must then reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart. In order to ensure that drivers reduce speed sufficiently, from the time at which the “SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED” message is shown on the timing monitors until the time that each car crosses the first safety car line for the first time, drivers must stay above the minimum time set by the FIA ECU.
With the following exceptions, overtaking is forbidden until the cars reach the first safety car line after the safety car has returned to the pits. Overtaking will only be permitted under the following circumstances :

- when the safety car is returning to the pits it may be overtaken by cars on the track once it has crossed the first safety car line ;
So the question is where is the "first safety car line"? If it is the finish then there were some clear violations that certainly deserve to be penalized. Likewise in car video from Vettel would certainly show if he grossly exceeded the ten car length rule while following the SC.
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:07 PM   #95
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You can't pass till the line, thats been the rule forever. The green flag is so that those who are behind know that the race is going back green, but that lap is still being run under yellow.

I believe the second safety car was deployed to get the debris from Alguersuari's car out of the pitlane.
Actually, there are two SC lines, one was a few meters before the pitlane entrance, so passing was legal, but Vettel's attempt was bogus. He shouuldn't have been there.


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Old 04-18-2010, 04:08 PM   #96
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People were going off course all over the place, someone (Massa?) went off into the gravel on the pit entrance a la Hami 2007. Hami's move was stupid but I don't think it deserved a penalty. He lost time as a result, a Ferrari nipped past him.
people will always go off and rejoin..thats not the issue... The issue was if he cut the track. Would be different if he overshot or something else... not just i've changed my mind so i'm going back..
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:09 PM   #97
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Did Hammy not pass SV in the pit entrance?

Forget the stuff at exit. SV appeared to be have entered the pits porperly, and Hammy drove up the inside within the pit entrance...
Anyone see a better view of this.

I'm not seeing how THIS isn't the issue, and not the in pitlane stuff.
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:11 PM   #98
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Half the racing in F1 would get them into **** with "most orgs". Yeah, Hamilton wasn't gonna get past, but Vettel pushed him onto the apron and kept him there. Equal blame, equal punishment.
He had every right... it is a single lane, and he chose to use it.
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:14 PM   #99
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Anyone see a better view of this.

I'm not seeing how THIS isn't the issue, and not the in pitlane stuff.






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Old 04-18-2010, 04:58 PM   #100
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Actually, there are two SC lines, one was a few meters before the pitlane entrance, so passing was legal, but Vettel's attempt was bogus. He shouuldn't have been there.


Gotcha. I guess my question is that if passing is legal after the first SC line (what is the 2nd one anyways?) why is it bogus, assuming the line with the red arrow is the one you're talking about.

I guess I also don't like this "I'm past you I'm going to try and make you crash" thing which is going on too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowphun View Post
From F1.com:


So the question is where is the "first safety car line"? If it is the finish then there were some clear violations that certainly deserve to be penalized. Likewise in car video from Vettel would certainly show if he grossly exceeded the ten car length rule while following the SC.
I'm not positive where the first safety car line is either, I've never heard it being anywhere other than the start finish line.
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