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Old 04-25-2010, 02:06 PM   #1
Oldbluelegacy
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Question 93 2.2 sohc heads on a 02 2.5 sohc, will they fit?

Hey guys ,

I have a question for you all.
I recently purchased a 02 Impreza OBS with a 2.5 SOHC. It has 133k on the clock. The body is immaculate.

While driving down the road the other day I heard a poof and started running on 3 cyl. Well I come to find out the previous owner had cross threaded the plug and I blew the plug out of cylinder # 1. There are NO threads left at all.

I know I could helicoil or timesert but I'm kind of concerned on getting aluminum remnants in the cylinder. So i figured I will just pull the engine and do the head gaskets timing belt all the seals I can get to, and maybe a clutch. The guy said he replaced all of that but I fail to believe anything he says after he completely blew me off when I called him with this problem.

One of my buddies has a good set of 2.2 SOHC heads laying around, will I be able to use these in my car ? I know people use newer 2.2 heads on 2.5 blocks to achieve a higher compression ratio, so what about the older heads ? Are they the same thing or a big downgrade? Are the cams the same ? Are they bolt on ?

Say I go with these heads get them ported maybe get a set of mild cams and go with a little thinner head gasket, will I need a tune ? Or will the Stock ECU compensate ?
This is going to be my daily driver, and I don't necessarily want to spend a fortune.

Whats your opinions on this situation ?

Thanks in advance
Kris-
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:39 PM   #2
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If you are planning on pulling it apart to do the HG put a timesert in while the heads are off, no worries of getting any thing in the cylinders.
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Old 04-25-2010, 02:46 PM   #3
Oldbluelegacy
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yeah I can do that but a time sert costs more than I can get a used set of heads for .
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:26 PM   #4
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stainless helicoil... stronger than the threads were when they were new. the phaseII 2.5 SOHC heads are superior flowing heads by a good deal. fixing what you have will give you the best power with the least amount of $ and headache. no tuning/ECU shenanigans necessary, either.
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Old 04-25-2010, 04:19 PM   #5
Oldbluelegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceFaceXC View Post
stainless helicoil... stronger than the threads were when they were new. the phaseII 2.5 SOHC heads are superior flowing heads by a good deal. fixing what you have will give you the best power with the least amount of $ and headache. no tuning/ECU shenanigans necessary, either.
so do you think I could safely do this with the motor installed ? Do you recommend any specific helicoil kit? Any good place to order them from?
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Old 04-25-2010, 08:12 PM   #6
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Does anyone recommend any specific kit ? The time-sert kit looks the most promising to be personally but does anyone have any other recommendations ?
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:25 PM   #7
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I have used heli-coils, keenserts and time-sert kits in the past. Installed correctly all are acceptable. However I do have a preference for time-sert for spark plug repairs, unless you are building a nitro or alcohol burner stay with the steel insert vs. the aluminum ones.

I have done my share of installs on motorcycles where the owners have botched the threads, with the head still installed I have never had an issue. Just clean what you can out with a small fuel line hose taped onto a shop vac.
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:06 PM   #8
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i've had the best luck with with helicoil brand. but if they are going into aluminum heads (which they are) they have to be stainless steel to avoid corrosion problems soon after install. I have never used the keenserts, so I cant really compare to them. I've used the stainless helicoils on aircraft engines a few times. i used compressed air to blow as much of the debris out of the cylinder as i could. aircraft engines have two spark plug holes and two GIGANTIC valves, so getting the crap out isn't too hard. small aluminum dust and the like should be ok. Be aware of the position of the piston/valves when drilling the damaged threads out and avoid touching them with the drill bit.

remove the valve covers (obviously) and the objects in your way (washer fliuid reservoir, air filter box, etc) and you will have a good amount of room. make sure you can drill straight and true with the spark plug hole, that will be the hardest thing to do.
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:28 PM   #9
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I just bought a extended time-sert kit , I removed everything else in the way already just have to move the Valve cover . I guess we will see how it goes, if I undo the bottom engine mount I should be able to jack the motor up to get a little more clearance right ?


Thanks for everyone help and suggestions so far ,
I appreciate it
Kris-
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:11 PM   #10
Matt Monson
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I'm glad everyone has convinced you that repairing the head is right since it would be near impossible to get the Ej22 intake manifold to work with all of your modern sensors and you can't bolt the Ej25 manifold to the ej22 heads.
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:50 PM   #11
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Thanks that's good to know just for reference, I did find some good 2.5 heads though just in case .

Quote:
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I'm glad everyone has convinced you that repairing the head is right since it would be near impossible to get the Ej22 intake manifold to work with all of your modern sensors and you can't bolt the Ej25 manifold to the ej22 heads.
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:07 PM   #12
Matt Monson
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What are they costing you? I've got a set in the garage that I would part with for the right price.
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:17 PM   #13
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What the heads or the time-serts , pm me for what you are asking for either
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:54 PM   #14
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im a mechanic at a stealership.. we use Heli coils for stripped stuff.. they work great. time serts do as well, but i prefer heli coils.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:10 PM   #15
Oldbluelegacy
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Why do you prefer helicoils ? because they are easier , it just seems like a solid chunk of metal inserted is a better idea than a spring shaped coil being installed

Quote:
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im a mechanic at a stealership.. we use Heli coils for stripped stuff.. they work great. time serts do as well, but i prefer heli coils.
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:56 AM   #16
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well, we seem to find that the timeserts are a bitch to get to hold in most softer metals especialy when you have to drill out the hole(im assuming you wont be using a press and will be doing it by hand..) the heli coils however seem to embed/hold in the walls better AND you dont have to drill out as much as you would have to with a time sert to retain the same thread pattern/size.
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Old 05-02-2010, 12:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrettJa View Post
well, we seem to find that the timeserts are a bitch to get to hold in most softer metals especialy when you have to drill out the hole(im assuming you wont be using a press and will be doing it by hand..) the heli coils however seem to embed/hold in the walls better AND you dont have to drill out as much as you would have to with a time sert to retain the same thread pattern/size.

This is one advantage a timesert has over a heli-coil. Unlike a heli-coil you can use a thread locking agent to aid in holding it in place. Timeserts are a solid insert and the locking agent wont seep through the threads to the bolt/spark plug being installed. Green Loctite(sleeve retainer) will ensure it never comes out.

Timesert also offers tools to aid in drilling and tapping holes to ensure proper alignment.

Here is some thing to think about also. A heli-coil is a single diamond shaped coil that when threaded into the hole allows for a direct path for air to chase up out of the cylinder. Subaru plugs are a gasket style plug. The gasket needs a solid surface to seat on to seal properly. I have seen issues with the gaskets not being able to form a seal due to the larger threads for the heli-coil being out side the diameter of the gasket. A timesert being a solid insert with a shoulder on the top provides a solid flange that not only seals to the head but gives a surface for the plug gasket to seal.
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:22 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flstffxe View Post
This is one advantage a timesert has over a heli-coil. Unlike a heli-coil you can use a thread locking agent to aid in holding it in place. Timeserts are a solid insert and the locking agent wont seep through the threads to the bolt/spark plug being installed. Green Loctite(sleeve retainer) will ensure it never comes out.

Timesert also offers tools to aid in drilling and tapping holes to ensure proper alignment.

Here is some thing to think about also. A heli-coil is a single diamond shaped coil that when threaded into the hole allows for a direct path for air to chase up out of the cylinder. Subaru plugs are a gasket style plug. The gasket needs a solid surface to seat on to seal properly. I have seen issues with the gaskets not being able to form a seal due to the larger threads for the heli-coil being out side the diameter of the gasket. A timesert being a solid insert with a shoulder on the top provides a solid flange that not only seals to the head but gives a surface for the plug gasket to seal.
Most definitely the correct answer instead of head replacement!
Last week I had a desperate customer with a blown out plug on a 2.2 sohc. Same problem, no threads left for the plug. Knowing that pulling the head and replacing it is the way to go, I found a way to buy some time and it has lasted a week (so far and still holding)......I utilized a stock STI plug that has a longer threaded portion, shortened it by adding a total of 4 spark plug gaskets and was able to grab hold of four remaining threads at the bottom of the plug hole. Do your own mock-up as I did to make sure the plug sits away from the piston face, I had an extra 2.2 head out and a straight edge.

Last edited by TurboGuyPDX; 05-05-2010 at 07:34 PM. Reason: spark plug "fix" still working after a week
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