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Old 04-26-2010, 11:27 AM   #1
ownnij
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Default Hybrid Motor Crankcase Ventilation Setup and Concerns

Hello people.

i'm reaching out to the community as i was reseaching to find there were a few people out there with hybrid builds and are having some issues regarding a little more blowby then wanted.. a lot of us with hybrid motors ( ej205 heads/ej257 shortblock) block off the center crankcase vent because we do not have the extra ports on each head to use them. although i believe this causes extra crankcase pressure and blowby to shoot out of the main crankcase vent.

my theory is to unblock the center crankcase vent and route it somewhere and it will correct the blow by issue but the question is where? i've read somewhere to tap a extra barb fitting on each vent on the heads and T the center crankcase vent there.

I'm also working with a guy that is also having the same issues but he didn't block his off and routed his to catch can but getting blowby that is filling up the tank sooner then average. Ron from rawperformance advised him not to cap it off but to have it T'ed to the oil drain line.

let me know guys on your experiences regarding this. i'm sure this information can be applied to future hybrid builders.
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Old 04-26-2010, 12:38 PM   #2
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Great thread topic as I've seen alot of talk about this and is a great concern to hybrid builds. Mine is actually T'd into a c.c but the motor isn't done yet so I have no personal feedback. Will visit this thread for more 1st hand experienced comments.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:08 PM   #3
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The way i have mine set up at the moment is... the center crankcase blocked off. main crankcase vent has the oem plastic Y divider piece, one going to the PCV (one the intake manifold) and the other going into a catch can. my catch can has two vents, since one is routed to the main crankcase, the 2nd one is connected to the inlet. The two vents from the valve cover are T'd to a small filter and just venting to atmosphere at this moment.

This is working well for me but just not PERFECT. at full boost i'm still getting a good amount of blowby that is being caught by my catch can.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:15 PM   #4
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^^^ Hey guys, Im the guy that is rerouting it to my turbo oil return line. This is what Ron recomended I do. Ill let you folks know when I do... Did I mention I hate stock location turbos lol!

He said not to cap off your secondary block breather, it can add to a chance of blowing cam seals etc.

Dom at maxwell sad I could block it but only if I am not having any blowbly, If I had blowby and capped it it could blow seals as well.

Ron also mentioned not to rely on the pressure that the vents give off. I also have a peterson style CC, but I plugged the top where the filter goes, and tig welded in a third AN fitting. So one -12 goes to the main block breather, one -12 to both valvecovers, and one -8 I have going to my turbo inlet for vacume. Im also running the PCV system

I tried to Tee the secondary block breather to the line with the valvecovers, but got a bit of raw oil in my catchcan because the secondary block breather isnt baffled.

I have also thought and read about drilling and tapping the valvecovers, so you can route it like the 2.5 heads. I wanted to do this but since the motor is in the car, I decided to Tee it to the turbo drain instead.

Last edited by rexworx; 04-26-2010 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:45 PM   #5
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Default Hybrid breather install and parts list

Ok. I got bombarded with PM's regarding this issue. Here is a total parts list of what you need as well as pictures.

All the parts you need to go to your local Subaru dealer for.

21328aa011- main breather pipe
99071ab352- short breather hose
99071ab333- pass side breather hose
99071ab343- driver side breather hose
scan of parts list

You will also need a few hose clamps to fit 5/8" hose. The driver side breather hose you may or may not use. For this motor I didn't because of where I put the breather. I just used 5/8" emissions hose.

Depending on how handy you are or if you can weld aluminum is the deciding factor on if you use brass barbs or not. If you can weld, then just get some pipe and weld it onto the valve cover. If you can't weld, then you will need to pic up some brass barbs from your local hardware store. You will also need to tap the valve cover in order to use them. The taps can get pricey and you have to be very careful on your placement and depth of the barb. So it may be easier to find someone to weld the pipes in.
this spot is on the passenger side v/c

aluminum

brass


If you can't find someone, then you can send them to me and I will weld them in.

final install, sorry for the black engine I know its hard to see.





Last edited by sidewayz; 08-05-2010 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:47 PM   #6
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If you have any questions just let me know. I've done a bunch of hybrids this way and haven't had any issues
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rexworx View Post
I wanted to do this but since the motor is in the car, I decided to Tee it to the turbo drain instead.
Watch for oil in your compressor outlet. You don't want to pressurize the oil return line.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmross View Post
Watch for oil in your compressor outlet. You don't want to pressurize the oil return line.
I thought about that but Ron didnt think it was a huge issue since I pulling vacume on the whole system.

Also Im running a dom3. It uses a dripfeed style oil feed. there inst much oil from the turbo going in the return/drain line at once. If it was full of fluid id be more worried about it backing up etc...

I woud much rather put second breathers on the valve covers...

May just wait and do this.

Last edited by rexworx; 04-26-2010 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:32 PM   #9
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i had to remove my petereson oil breather tank. thing was NOT working well for me. i had it setup like valve cover t'ed to -8 and the -12 connected directly to the main crankcase vent. it still has the breather filter on top. PCV AND unbaffled center crankcase both blocked.

the results were not good.. LOL
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:43 PM   #10
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Sidewayz, I pmd you.
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Old 04-26-2010, 04:36 PM   #11
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i'll have to wait to look at the pictures because my work blocks them but man this seems like i'll have to drill and tap into my valve cover.. more work LOL

can we remove the valve covers with the motor inside the car? when you tap/weld a fitting to the valve cover. i'm assuming you just run a line from the valve cover to the center crankcase vent. would we need to run a catch can inbetween?

Last edited by ownnij; 04-26-2010 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 04-26-2010, 04:53 PM   #12
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I'm confused what you did there Ryan. Why did you add another port to the heads?
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:31 PM   #13
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so the crankcase is connected back into the vavle cover like the 2.5 heads
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:46 PM   #14
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the center crankcase valve is from what ryan said. the main crankcase vent is conneted to your PCV and inlet.
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Old 04-26-2010, 05:56 PM   #15
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On my old hybrid setup I had the center unbaffled breather capped, the PVC system removed, and the Crawford air/oil separator hooked up per Crawford with the vacuum source being my APS CAI. Never sucked any oil into the intake and no noticeable blowby problems and maybe a loss of .5-1 quart every 3K miles. I got better results after a re-ring when I broke the motor in on a known good tune with mild boost from the get go.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:09 PM   #16
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PM's replied

D- I added the correct breather assy for hybrid engines. Since the 2.0 doesn't have the extra main oil breather this is the proper was to configure it to work like the 2.5's



25rtsi- just like the 2.5s
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:29 PM   #17
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Can someone explain to me what all those hoses and things will do that the oil return passage in the heads won't? I don't quite get it.

Last edited by CKxx; 04-27-2010 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 04-26-2010, 07:18 PM   #18
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sidewayz, technically we don't really need to buy those hoses and we can just buy 3/8 hoses and a T since that bar seems to only do that.
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Old 04-26-2010, 07:29 PM   #19
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^^ yes but if you want it to look factory then doing this is the best way. We have done it the other way with just running hoses and tee's. But I personally like the way this looks better :P

CKxx- huh? the center breather on the 2.5's have RAW oil coming out of them.
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Old 04-26-2010, 07:40 PM   #20
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EDIT: Hold on, let me go check an STi real quick.

Last edited by CKxx; 04-27-2010 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:07 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewayz View Post
^^ yes but if you want it to look factory then doing this is the best way. We have done it the other way with just running hoses and tee's. But I personally like the way this looks better :P

CKxx- huh? the center breather on the 2.5's have RAW oil coming out of them.
I'm not sure I understand either. The secondary/center breather system is not for "hybrids", it's for AVCS heads. What makes your system appropriate for a hybrid vs. just capping it? With your system, it seems like windage from the crank will simply have a more exciting journey...can you explain the other benefits?
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:57 AM   #22
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No one said that it was "for hybrids"

from my personal experience I have seen many "capped" hybrids have issues with blowby and oil consumption. By draining the oil back to the valve covers this is greatly reduced. Maybe you can explain to us why the 2.5 tubro blocks are the only ones with that. Because I have no idea other than too much pressure build up
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:22 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewayz View Post
No one said that it was "for hybrids"

from my personal experience I have seen many "capped" hybrids have issues with blowby and oil consumption. By draining the oil back to the valve covers this is greatly reduced. Maybe you can explain to us why the 2.5 tubro blocks are the only ones with that. Because I have no idea other than too much pressure build up
I think it's because a lot of us are/were caught up trying to keep the OEM plumbing (PCV to manifold, vac to turbo inlet) with built motors that run much looser clearances and a lot more boost (blow-by) than the stock system is designed to deal with.

IMHO running a large diameter line the same size as the baffled breather port directly to an oil separator with an inlet of the same size is critical if you are going to block off the central port.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:39 PM   #24
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good info. please keep the opinions coming. i have a 257 with v5 heads and made a plug for my 257. i don't want to put undue pressure and blow seals thats for sure.

i plan on running at least 25psi of boost. i want to achieve 400/400 with a 30r and id1000's on 93 pump.

i don't have a catch can yet but will get one if i can understand why it is necessary and how it works.

i have had my subaru for 4 years and simply don't burn oil. i don't have it in my top mount and when i check it is always where i left it. maybe i change it too often but i do plan on pushing the limits slightly with the new motor.

i guess i'm looking for suggestions on running the crankcase vent to a catch can. where would i normally run a catch can from?
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:15 PM   #25
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yeah it might be a good idea to run a catch can on your set up. i run 25psi and i'm sure it's one of the reasons why i have so much crank pressure when i let it rip.

the thing about catch cans is that a lot of the ones out in the market are not baffled. i'm not sure if this makes a big difference but i'm sure it's not going to catch all the oil that comes by.

the catch can just goes between whatever vents into a can and can be left to vent to air or you can hook it up to the inlet. some don't like hooking it up to the inlet because of uncaught oil can get pass your catch can go into your intercooler etc.,
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