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Old 04-28-2010, 12:34 PM   #1
tshivers00
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Default Rod knock = Hybrid Swap!

So, a couple weeks ago as I was driving to Denver, I noticed an interesting sound. Took it to a couple mechanics and found out it was indeed a rod knocking. After doing A LOT of research, I decided on a 2.5 short block and my stock heads. I have no mods done to my car as of now, but the game is beginning.

I decided to take it to Revolutions Performance here in Colorado Springs, as I have heard nothing but great things about them. I dropped the car off this morning (4/28/10) to let Adam and the gang work their magic.

So far, here is my parts list:

ej257 short block
walbro 255 fuel pump
gasket set
mishimoto radiator
up-pipe (not sure what brand)
AP 740cc injectors
Cobb AP

I am having my heads machined and looked over to make sure they are ok.

I am also getting my car tuned for e85. This makes me very happy. I am running on the stock tranny/clutch so I'm not going crazy with the tune. I am going to keep it conservative for now. I can always get another tune and change stuff with my AP.

(For all the Cobb AP haters, I understand that I could do it for a lot less money with an OpenSource tune, but that's not what I wanted. If that works great for you, awesome! I have wanted an AP since I sold Subaru's in Nashville, TN and bought mine.)

I will keep updating this thread as it goes along, and if everything goes well I'm looking at getting my car back this weekend. I just have to get my radiator and injectors in this week.

I would love any feedback/suggestions on how other hybrid builds have gone, and where you went from there. What is my next step? Exhaust, transmission, turbo, suspension?
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:16 PM   #2
goob_os101
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new oil pump, oil cooler, oil pan......lots more to add to that list.
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:37 PM   #3
tshivers00
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working on that as well.

thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by goob_os101 View Post
new oil pump, oil cooler, oil pan......lots more to add to that list.
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:50 PM   #4
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740cc injectors might be on the small side when using e85. I would get 850cc min.
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Old 04-28-2010, 05:58 PM   #5
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^^^^ depending on what size turbo. i tried reading through it and didnt see a turbo selection.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:03 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by ownnij View Post
^^^^ depending on what size turbo. i tried reading through it and didnt see a turbo selection.
That's true. 740cc is fine if he's sticking with the factory TD04 or even VF39, but if he goes much larger his IDC might be getting up there.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:58 PM   #7
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Since you live in Colorado you should get most of your parts from Flatirons Tuning
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:19 PM   #8
tshivers00
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I do have the stock turbo in my WRX. Sorry for not clarifying. I'm just going conservative for now. When I upgrade the turbo, I'll upgrade the injectors, but I'm sure that will be a while.

Yeah, Flatirons Tuning is great. I almost bought my shortblock from them but found a better deal. They're only about an hour and a half away from me. I ordered my gasket kit from them, and it was here the next day. Great place!
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goob_os101 View Post
new oil pump, oil cooler, oil pan......lots more to add to that list.
Just a note on the oil pump- Get the 08+ STI oil pump. I'm currently right in the middle of pretty much the same swap you have planned. The 08+ STI oil pump (11mm) does fit the block, the only modification that needs to be done is to grind down the coolant line bracket that bolts to it. On my 02 WRX oil pump, the bottom of the pumps milling is just slightly different compared to the 08 STI pump.
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:32 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tshivers00 View Post
I do have the stock turbo in my WRX. Sorry for not clarifying. I'm just going conservative for now. When I upgrade the turbo, I'll upgrade the injectors, but I'm sure that will be a while.

Yeah, Flatirons Tuning is great. I almost bought my shortblock from them but found a better deal. They're only about an hour and a half away from me. I ordered my gasket kit from them, and it was here the next day. Great place!
i bought my Shortblock from them...Jon Cooley is awesome.
Shipping to Hawaii was that much either!
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Old 04-29-2010, 01:44 AM   #11
Tbone714
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I'm surprised there tuning you with e85 on 740 injectors..While everything things out you mise well go with Agency power fuel rail and line kit, and at least 1000 cc injectors.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
740cc injectors might be on the small side when using e85. I would get 850cc min.
^ Exactly what I was thinking
Especially in that region where a quick drive could get u several thousand feet above sea level
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:42 AM   #13
tshivers00
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Thanks for all the input guys. For now, I'm gonna stick with the 740s and go with a conservative tune. If/when I decide to do more stuff, I can sell them and buy bigger injectors. I'm also getting it tuned for 91 so when I drive to Indiana (17 hours), I will be ok if I don't find an e85 station.

I think I'm going to pick up an Invidia bellmouth dp, Invidia up, and HKS axle back exhaust. I am pretty much getting them for free, so it's worth a gamble. If I don't like the HKS, I can go back to the stock muffler and lose some hp, but that's ok. I don't want ricer, but I don't want super quiet either. I can always sell the HKS and stocker and get a Maddad or something down the line.

If any of this sounds dumb, let me know. I know my car, but I am new to upgrading Subaru's. I am loving all the tips and advice.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:29 PM   #14
tshivers00
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Had to get a new clutch today. Went with a Stage 2 ACT for now. Going to look at the exhaust, dp, and up tomorrow. I'm at least getting the dp. I may get the up to match, and may get the exhaust to try out anyway.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:14 AM   #15
tshivers00
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Clutch was backordered, so I went with an Exedy Stage 1 Organic Clutch. I also bought an HKS hi-power catback, with an Invidia bellmouth downpipe, and an Invidia up-pipe.

My upgraded parts list:

ej257 short block
walbro 255 fuel pump
gasket set
mishimoto radiator
AP 740cc injectors
Cobb AP
Exedy Organic clutch
HKS hi-power catback
Invidia bellmouth dp
Invidia up

I'm sure there's more stuff I'm not thinking of. Everything with my heads looked fine, so now I'm just waiting for everything to be reassembled and installed. Then, I get my tune. I will hopefully have my car back by Wednesday or Friday.

This project is adding up quickly, but still a bit less than the Subaru dealership said it would cost for a new motor.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:38 AM   #16
lcjarrett
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Remember to break in your Engine before tuning.

http://www.raw1performance.com/index.../Page1229.html
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:11 PM   #17
tshivers00
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Got my car back today!

Couldn't tune for e85 because the injectors apparently weren't flow matched. I bought them from a guy here on NASIOC, so I'm not too happy about that.

The clutch will take some getting used to, but I like it. The exhaust rubs on a bracket under my car, so it rattles a little when it gets bumpy, but I can live with that.

Now for the numbers!!

My car dyno'd at 211whp and 247 lb/ft of torque.
It's a blast to drive, and my next upgrade will definitely be a bigger turbo!
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:52 PM   #18
kellygnsd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tshivers00 View Post
Got my car back today!

Couldn't tune for e85 because the injectors apparently weren't flow matched. I bought them from a guy here on NASIOC, so I'm not too happy about that.

The clutch will take some getting used to, but I like it. The exhaust rubs on a bracket under my car, so it rattles a little when it gets bumpy, but I can live with that.

Now for the numbers!!

My car dyno'd at 211whp and 247 lb/ft of torque.
It's a blast to drive, and my next upgrade will definitely be a bigger turbo!

Weren't flow matched or weren't big enough?
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:16 PM   #19
Dr. octagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tshivers00 View Post
Got my car back today!

Couldn't tune for e85 because the injectors apparently weren't flow matched. I bought them from a guy here on NASIOC, so I'm not too happy about that.

The clutch will take some getting used to, but I like it. The exhaust rubs on a bracket under my car, so it rattles a little when it gets bumpy, but I can live with that.

Now for the numbers!!

My car dyno'd at 211whp and 247 lb/ft of torque.
It's a blast to drive, and my next upgrade will definitely be a bigger turbo!

I know you did'nt dyno the new block they just put in? You DID breakin the motor right? Why are #'s so low? You did break it in properly !>??

Last edited by Dr. octagon; 05-05-2010 at 03:19 PM. Reason: addtionally
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:41 PM   #20
tshivers00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
Weren't flow matched or weren't big enough?

Apparently weren't flow matched. The 740's are big enough, but now I have an excuse to go even bigger.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:43 PM   #21
tshivers00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. octagon View Post
I know you did'nt dyno the new block they just put in? You DID breakin the motor right? Why are #'s so low? You did break it in properly !>??
It was a used block. It wasn't a brand new one. It came out of an STi. It had about 30k miles on it. It's already broke in.

You think my numbers are low?? Why do you think that?
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:58 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tshivers00 View Post
It was a used block. It wasn't a brand new one. It came out of an STi. It had about 30k miles on it. It's already broke in.

You think my numbers are low?? Why do you think that?
sorry, i got the impression that those #'s came from your new block (new as in crate) and was like.......its been 3 days and its already dyno'ed? Still i would have expected higher #'s for a 257 td04. 211, 247 seems real low. This was simply a base line? Any em?

Last edited by Dr. octagon; 05-05-2010 at 04:01 PM. Reason: so confused
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Old 05-05-2010, 04:23 PM   #23
tshivers00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. octagon View Post
sorry, i got the impression that those #'s came from your new block (new as in crate) and was like.......its been 3 days and its already dyno'ed? Still i would have expected higher #'s for a 257 td04. 211, 247 seems real low. This was simply a base line? Any em?
That's ok.
I had it set up for reasonable numbers. It is Stage 2, but I don't want to do too much to it right now. Once I get used to it, and fill my savings account back up, I will start upgrading again.
I got it tuned with Cobb AP on the dyno, and that's all I'm using.
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:48 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tshivers00 View Post
That's ok.
I had it set up for reasonable numbers. It is Stage 2, but I don't want to do too much to it right now. Once I get used to it, and fill my savings account back up, I will start upgrading again.
I got it tuned with Cobb AP on the dyno, and that's all I'm using.
How can you tell if your injectors are not flow mached?
clogged maybe?
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Old 05-07-2010, 11:12 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tshivers00 View Post
Apparently weren't flow matched. The 740's are big enough, but now I have an excuse to go even bigger.
I'm thinking you mis-understood the tuner. If the flow was that uneven with the injectors, your regular gas map wouldn't be safe, either. He was probably getting to 100% duty cycle with the injectors trying to tune for E85. Ethanol takes significantly bigger injectors for the same power than normal gasoline, but can be tuned quite a bit more aggressively once you have enough injector to work with.
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