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Old 04-28-2010, 09:44 PM   #1
elitescouter
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Default Just got my car back with new forged pistons in my STi, couple questions...

Three weeks ago I took my car to a shop and got forged pistons put in. Today I just got it back and I am really excited but I have some questions so I can get the right answers and not mess up my car.

1. With forged pistons how long do I have to wait to warm up my car before I can start driving it (No boost, just slowly).

2. When breaking-in the new forged pistons, how many miles do I need to drive it for it to properly sit in? (I was planing on 3k miles)

3. When can I put in synthetic oil? Also I used redline before but a friend told me Mobil 1 synthetic will do the same job except its 50% cheaper.

4. I drove it a little bit since I just got it back today from the shop. I monitored it with RomRaider and no knock is present, does that mean I can still use that map even thought I have forged pistons now or do I need a re-tune?

I thinks thats it for now. I know it might be nooby questions, but I just want to make sure my car runs good. Thanks everyone!


UPDATE!

I just went out today, got some filters from the subaru dealership and got 20% off on them since I bought 3. Anyways I went to the nearest shop and got me 12 qt's of Castrol GTX non-syn 5w30 oil. Changed my oil and noticed the filter on the was bigger then the stock one I use... Not really sure if bigger is better in this case but it was a denzo filter. I filtered the oil that came out and saw no shavings what so ever!!! The oil was clean, couldnt even see it on the dipstick. I am 140miles into the new pistons. Now it's time to drive it for another 200 miles and change the oil again. I got the magnetic drain plug installed, so I will see what I get next oil change. I am gonna tear open the old filter just to see what was caught. Here is the picture of the bigger filter that was on there, should I get that filter next time I do an oil change or stick to the OEM subaru ones?

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Last edited by elitescouter; 04-30-2010 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 04-28-2010, 09:52 PM   #2
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im not sure. i figured ur tuner or who ever put in ur pistons would have given u all this info
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:21 PM   #3
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yeah, ask the people who built them?
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:23 PM   #4
elitescouter
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They gave me some info, I just want to verify it so I'm 100% sure.

Last edited by elitescouter; 04-28-2010 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:33 PM   #5
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well since you are NWIC I will do the best I can, it will be very limited, see Unabomber’s manifesto to better answer your questions.

1. This is the only one I have any idea about, I believe with forged pistons they need to warm up more before they seat properly in the sleeve and are more prone to blow by before warming up under significant boost.

2. don’t know

3. I have seen threads describing Mobil 1 as a problem for these cars, this is unconfirmed (by me) but a little search will take care of you.

4. If it is just pistons you had done and they are just forged but otherwise of the same dimension as your previous pistons I would guess so. This seems unlikley though, definatly look it up here.


That said, I just say this as an immediate warning and may be wrong, I am sure someone that knows more will be along soon to give you a more accurate answer.

Last edited by etothen; 04-28-2010 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:37 PM   #6
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1. with forged pistons you should deffinetly take your time warming up the car i would want the car to be at OT for at least a couple of min before pushing the car hard. and look into getting a block heater remember ever start is a cold start with forged pistons.

2. 3k is ok i would go with about 5k just to be safe and i would definetly wait untill i got that used oil annalysis that i would send in after changing oil at 2500 miles before pushing the engine hard.

3. correct me if im wrong but i believe that most people switch to full synthetic at around the 3 oil change or so.

4. no you shouldnt need a tune but i suggest you get one
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:09 PM   #7
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Thank you guys! About the tune, I will wait to get an up pipe and headers (Hopefuly will have em by the time I'm done with my break-in) then get the tune that way I can squuize couple more whp.
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:34 PM   #8
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1. With forged pistons how long do I have to wait to warm up my car before I can start driving it (No boost, just slowly).
cars warm up most efficiently being driven, slowly, and keeping the rpms down. let it idle for a bit just to get everything settled and then start driving gently until you see temps start to climb. Do you have an oil temp gauge? I highly suggest to get one so you know for sure when you engine is fully up to proper temp!

2. When breaking-in the new forged pistons, how many miles do I need to drive it for it to properly sit in? (I was planing on 3k miles)
everybody will have a different say in this matter, i think 3k would be fine but i would bump it up to around 4500-5k just to be sure and as jdmboy said, send all your oil out to blackstone for analysis!

3. When can I put in synthetic oil? Also I used redline before but a friend told me Mobil 1 synthetic will do the same job except its 50% cheaper.
when it comes to oil, dont skimp just because ones cheaper! Oil, 9 times out of 10 is over thought and way to personal to get a straight answer. This is what i do know...In my 06 wrx i have ran M1, RP, and AMSOIL, out of those 3 my analysis from the AMSOIL have shown the best wear.

4. I drove it a little bit since I just got it back today from the shop. I monitored it with RomRaider and no knock is present, does that mean I can still use that map even thought I have forged pistons now or do I need a re-tune?
This is hard to say since i cant look at your map and logs. My advice is to run the current map during break in (stay out of boost though) and then have your tuner throw it on the dyno just to be 100% sure its in top shape with your new pistons. you can never be to safe!
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:00 AM   #9
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Wow youre amazing... Thanks!!!
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:48 AM   #10
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I agree with everything but #2. I would say 1,000 mi. Same as OEM and driven just like the factory break in too. You just need the rings to seat.

As for #4. Did the CR change? Did the piston dish change? If so, then it's anybodies guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kh15 View Post
1. With forged pistons how long do I have to wait to warm up my car before I can start driving it (No boost, just slowly).
cars warm up most efficiently being driven, slowly, and keeping the rpms down. let it idle for a bit just to get everything settled and then start driving gently until you see temps start to climb. Do you have an oil temp gauge? I highly suggest to get one so you know for sure when you engine is fully up to proper temp!

2. When breaking-in the new forged pistons, how many miles do I need to drive it for it to properly sit in? (I was planing on 3k miles)
everybody will have a different say in this matter, i think 3k would be fine but i would bump it up to around 4500-5k just to be sure and as jdmboy said, send all your oil out to blackstone for analysis!

3. When can I put in synthetic oil? Also I used redline before but a friend told me Mobil 1 synthetic will do the same job except its 50% cheaper.
when it comes to oil, dont skimp just because ones cheaper! Oil, 9 times out of 10 is over thought and way to personal to get a straight answer. This is what i do know...In my 06 wrx i have ran M1, RP, and AMSOIL, out of those 3 my analysis from the AMSOIL have shown the best wear.

4. I drove it a little bit since I just got it back today from the shop. I monitored it with RomRaider and no knock is present, does that mean I can still use that map even thought I have forged pistons now or do I need a re-tune?
This is hard to say since i cant look at your map and logs. My advice is to run the current map during break in (stay out of boost though) and then have your tuner throw it on the dyno just to be 100% sure its in top shape with your new pistons. you can never be to safe!
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:23 AM   #11
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change your oil at 500 and 1k. if you had a magnetic drain plug youd see why. also, check your oil often during break in. you will need to top it off.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:26 AM   #12
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switch to synthetic around 6k, I'd say.
Also, no, DO NOT use Mobil 1 if you value these pistons.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:50 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWDWRXLOVER View Post
change your oil at 500 and 1k. if you had a magnetic drain plug youd see why. also, check your oil often during break in. you will need to top it off.
if you dont have a magnetic drain plug on your brand new build block you need mental help
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:51 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by XanRules View Post
switch to synthetic around 6k, I'd say.
Also, no, DO NOT use Mobil 1 if you value these pistons.
i would use rotilla (sp?)
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmiller219 View Post
im not sure. i figured ur tuner or who ever put in ur pistons would have given u all this info

This.

Contact your builder for this info. Half the people on nasioc don't know their ass from their elbow.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:44 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by cmiller219 View Post
im not sure. i figured ur tuner or who ever put in ur pistons would have given u all this info

x10000000000000000000000
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:00 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elitescouter View Post
They gave me some info, I just want to verify it so I'm 100% sure.
^ he said he got info from the builder and is just looking for some other OPINIONS because after all these are somewhat opinion based questions there is no cut a dry answer to the questions he asked. so asking a few questions is ok but in the end your builders suggestions should be held above ours.
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:31 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elitescouter View Post
Three weeks ago I took my car to a shop and got forged pistons put in. Today I just got it back and I am really excited but I have some questions so I can get the right answers and not mess up my car.

1. With forged pistons how long do I have to wait to warm up my car before I can start driving it (No boost, just slowly).

Not any longer than with oem pistons. It will just be a bit noisier usually (forged pistons are usually a little noisey till its warmed up, then between a little noisey and silent when warmed up) That said, you should always let the car run at least a minute or two before you take off up the road, normal pistons or not.

2. When breaking-in the new forged pistons, how many miles do I need to drive it for it to properly sit in? (I was planing on 3k miles)

Honestly, 100-200 miles. You need pressure in the cyls to seat the rings to wear them in properly. A lot of people with forged pistons have smoke issues when they drive it like a grandma for 3k miles. Driving it hard a bit almost always solves that. Having forged pistons IS IRRELEVANT. You arent breaking the pistons in. You are breaking the RINGS in. And the rings arent really any different from the OEM rings. In fact, a lot of forged pistons use OEM rings. Most of them actually. IN FACT, a lot of the big name engine builders and tuners, Phil from Element as an example, DO NOT recommend that long of a break in.

3. When can I put in synthetic oil? Also I used redline before but a friend told me Mobil 1 synthetic will do the same job except its 50% cheaper.

IMO never. Most of the engine builders agree that non synthetic Rotella 15W-40 is the oil of choice for a built motor. And if you do a bit of research here on nasioc, it will be come VERY clear that Redline and ESPECIALLY Mobile 1 have a very bad reptuation, and that the majority of people will tell you expressly NOT to use either in your Subaru.

4. I drove it a little bit since I just got it back today from the shop. I monitored it with RomRaider and no knock is present, does that mean I can still use that map even thought I have forged pistons now or do I need a re-tune?

No knock=no danger. And if the only change to your car was the forged pistons, you shouldnt need much in the way of tuning changes. Likely your compression is slightly different (most aftermarket pistons are .1 or so different that OEM) so getting a "freshening up" on your tune is definitely recommended even if its not knocking. But really, if its not knocking, there is no NEED to tune it, at all. I say need as in needing for safety reasons.

I thinks thats it for now. I know it might be nooby questions, but I just want to make sure my car runs good. Thanks everyone!

See the red.
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:33 AM   #19
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You don't need anywhere near 5000mi to break in pistons... that's just excessive-

get the car to OT - do a few minutes at 2000-3000rpm - then drive the car, low boost - high vacuum (engine brake)- a few times- then do a few more minutes at 2000-3000rpm and repeat with more boost. If the motor was built right it takes less than 20 minutes to break it in. If you want to be extra safe, wait 1000 miles before you beat on it.


edit: err, what he said
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:40 AM   #20
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The most important thing, and no one ever talks about it, is the first oil change.

It needs to happen VERY shortly after the motor is first started up. In fact, there should be TWO oil changes in short order from when it is first started.

The break in driving is WAY less important than what is the ACTUAL break in.

New motor=

First start up, I (as well as many race engine builders) recommend a straight 30weight oil. Start motor, let it idle for @20 min. Shut it down. Change the oil and filter. Go to whatever your normal oil is going to be. Most recommend Rotella 15W40 non synth.

Drive the car, take it easy on it, @200 miles later, change the oil and filter again.


Go drive it normally. In fact, drive it semi agressive. You need boost to pressurize the cyls to force the rings out against the cyl walls to seat them properly. Also, "engine brake" Run it up then let off the gas in a lower gear and let the compression slow the car. I like to do this from @5200-5500rpm down to about 2500 or so.

Its also recommended to vary your speed a bit. Dont do a 3 hour trip at 70mph on cruise control on a brand new motor if you can avoid it

Otherwise, just go drive the car.
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:43 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
See the red.

evidence points to mobile one = http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ht=redline+oil

I have not seen, read, or heard of redline oil being detrimental. Proof or reference please.

Really
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:49 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. octagon View Post
evidence points to mobile one = http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ht=redline+oil

I have not seen, read, or heard of redline oil being detrimental. Proof or reference please.

Really

I have been here @6 years so I have seen a lot, but I dont save links to threads in case someone doesnt believe me. I just know that I have read people claiming issues with it. Not often, but the 3 oils that I have seen people claim issues with are

Mobil 1 (5w-30 in particular)
Redline (I dont recall what weight)
Royal Purple (a couple weights)

I know that my FXT ate mobil 1 like it was going out of style, same with royal purple. Rotella 5W40 synth was fine, Castrol syntec was fine, and now with the built motor, I run Rotella 15W40 non synth, with no problems.


I will tell you this, Mobile 1 is the one that seems to pop motors, so beyond that, if you arent burning oil, I wouldnt worry about it. If you arent burning your redline, then rock on with it


*note*
Burning SOME oil is fairly typical for a Suby. Its burning a lot that is when its an issue.
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:55 AM   #23
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link was for aftermath visual only, and i was quite intrested in reading any redline oil failure threads becuase i have never heard of any. That does not mean they dont, or have not occured.

Agree
mobile 1
royal purple are not reccomended
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:06 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
The most important thing, and no one ever talks about it, is the first oil change.

It needs to happen VERY shortly after the motor is first started up. In fact, there should be TWO oil changes in short order from when it is first started.

The break in driving is WAY less important than what is the ACTUAL break in.

New motor=

First start up, I (as well as many race engine builders) recommend a straight 30weight oil. Start motor, let it idle for @20 min. Shut it down. Change the oil and filter. Go to whatever your normal oil is going to be. Most recommend Rotella 15W40 non synth.

Drive the car, take it easy on it, @200 miles later, change the oil and filter again.


Go drive it normally. In fact, drive it semi agressive. You need boost to pressurize the cyls to force the rings out against the cyl walls to seat them properly. Also, "engine brake" Run it up then let off the gas in a lower gear and let the compression slow the car. I like to do this from @5200-5500rpm down to about 2500 or so.

Its also recommended to vary your speed a bit. Dont do a 3 hour trip at 70mph on cruise control on a brand new motor if you can avoid it

Otherwise, just go drive the car.
Like DAVENOW has said, this part is important and if you haven't done it yet, ....DO IT!
Unless the engine was balanced and blueprinted, a forged piston setup will wear in similar stock pistons, you will get very fine shavings etc, in your oil as well as engine assembly lube, etc., from the build process.
You want to make sure this is all flushed out. Use Dyno oil until after initial break in, oil flushing (at least 2 changes).
Break in period really depends on your build, i.e. race build, or just aftermarket parts installed right out of the box.
Some race engines you can flog on after a few hours of running time, some rebuilt engines can be up to 3k mi., it depends. Trust your engine builder, that's what you paid him for....
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:17 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. octagon View Post
link was for aftermath visual only, and i was quite intrested in reading any redline oil failure threads becuase i have never heard of any. That does not mean they dont, or have not occured.

Agree
mobile 1
royal purple are not reccomended

Oh yeah I should have been more clear. I dont know of any failures from Royal Purple or Redline. Just excessive burning claims. More with Royal Purple.


The Mobile 1 failures, well its never been PROVEN that it causes them. HOWEVER, the evidence that it contributes to bearing problems is fairly damning. More often than not, motors with spun bearings, were running Mobile 1 5W30. There are just SO MANY reports of spun bearings, on mobil 1 motors. Not just people saying "I ran mobil 1 and spun" but people saying "I spun a bearing, help!" followed by someone asking, and sure enough, they were most of the time, running Mobil 1 5W30.

So take that for what its worth. Can we say 100% for sure mobil 1 5W30 is causing these failures on Subie turbo motors? No. But most of us feel pretty darned safe to say that enough people have spun a bearing while running that particular weight of that particular oil, to say its statistically not a good idea.
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