Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday September 1, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-25-2010, 08:48 PM   #1
Cobb Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 4803
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Austin, DFW, Portland, SOCAL
Default COBB Tuning Surgeline Prepared Redline Time Attack GT-R (774 whp) and STi (511 whp)




We just finished preparation and tuning for two of our Redline Time Attack vehicles: A 2006 Subaru STi and a 2010 Nissan GT-R. COBB Tuning Surgeline prepares and tunes a lot of Subarus and GT-Rs for our customers in the Pacific Northwest. We wanted to share the results and offer a comparison of their respective power curves. Comparing these vehicles is obviously apples to oranges, but it should still be fun. Enjoy!


2.5L w/GT35R tuned with AccessPORT

Location: COBB Tuning Surgeline
Ambient Temp: 57 F Daily Average
Elevation: Approximately Sea Level
Weather: Indoor

2006 Subaru STi
Tuner: Tim Bailey
Dyno Info: Mustang AWD-500
Peak HP at RPM: 511 WHP@6900RPM
Peak Torque at RPM: 424 WTQ@4800RPM
Baseline hp/tq for a stock on same dyno: 2010 STi: 239 WTQ, 228 WHP
Target Boost: 24 PSI
Target AFR: 7.2:1
Fuel: E85

Engine/Power Modifications:
• COBB Tuning AccessPORT
• Cosworth Long Block
• Modified Perrin GT35R .82A/R Rotated Turbo Kit
• Injector Dynamics 2000cc Fuel Injectors
• COBB Tuning Surgeline Intake
• COBB Tuning Surgeline Downpipe
• COBB Tuning Surgeline Air/Oil Separator
• COBB Tuning Crank Pulley
• COBB Tuning Catback Exhaust
• Moroso Oil Pan
• HKS Exhaust Manifold
• Cosworth Intake Manifold
• Mishimoto Radiator
• Modified Perrin Front Mount Intercooler Kit
• COBB Tuning Surgeline Oil Cooler Kit
• COBB Tuning Surgeline Surge Tank
• COBB Tuning Surgeline Fuel System
• Accusump Oil Accumulator

3.8L (VR38DETT) w/Upgraded AMS Turbos tuned with AccessPORT

Location: COBB Tuning Surgeline
Ambient Temp: 60 F Daily Average
Elevation: Approximately Sea Level
Weather: Indoor

2009 Nissan GT-R
Tuner: Tim Bailey
Dyno Info: Mustang AWD-500
Peak HP at RPM: 774 WHP@6590RPM
Peak Torque at RPM: 731 WTQ@4320RPM
Baseline hp/tq for a stock on same dyno: 2010 STi: 239 WTQ, 228 WHP
Target Boost: 25 PSI
Target AFR: 7.3:1
Fuel: E85

Engine/Power Modifications:

• COBB Tuning AccessPORT
• AMS Performance Upgraded Turbos
• Forged Wastegate Actuators
• COBB Tuning Modified Fuel Rails
• Injector Dynamics 2000cc Fuel Injectors
• Dual In Tank Walbro Fuel Pumps
• Dual External Bosch 044 Fuel Pumps
• COBB Tuning Surgeline Fuel Surge Tank
• COBB Tuning Intakes
• COBB Tuning 3" Intercooler Hard Pipe Kit
• COBB Tuning 3" Downpipes
• COBB Tuning Y-pipe
• COBB Tuning 3.5" Race Exhaust
• COBB Tuning XLE BPVs
• MODE Racing Oil Cooler Kit
• Mahle Pistons
• Pauter Rods
• T-Mac Performance Balanced Crankshaft



* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by Cobb Tuning; 05-28-2010 at 09:20 PM.
Cobb Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2010, 09:02 PM   #2
renosubby
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 152576
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Reno, NV
Vehicle:
2006 STI 10.8@ 129
www.Mayhemtuning.com

Default

drool!!!
renosubby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2010, 09:04 PM   #3
JoeTX
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 83069
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Vehicle:
2007 STi 302/350
UGM Wingless

Default

Please never compare an STi to a GT-R again. Comparo bring much sadness. Thank you.
JoeTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2010, 09:29 PM   #4
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTX View Post
Please never compare an STi to a GT-R again. Comparo bring much sadness. Thank you.
the STi needs more boost crank it up to 30 psi
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2010, 09:33 PM   #5
Bailey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 12572
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland Oregon
Vehicle:
2004 STi
35R is enough

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTX View Post
Please never compare an STi to a GT-R again. Comparo bring much sadness. Thank you.
I'm sorry man... I had no desire to bum you out.
Bailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2010, 09:37 PM   #6
Bailey
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 12572
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland Oregon
Vehicle:
2004 STi
35R is enough

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
the STi needs more boost crank it up to 30 psi
On this particular car running more boost did not make more power. The car flows so much air that the turbo is effectively done at 22 psi at redline. To give you an idea of how much air we are flowing:

Injector duty cycle on 2200 cc injectors is ~70%
Maf voltage with a 4.96 with a Perrin Big MAF intake.

I love this particular STi. We've done several 500+ whp subaru's in the past few months. The path to this power level is becoming somewhat formulaic.

Best regards
Tim Bailey
Bailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2010, 09:49 PM   #7
LICmotorsports
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 54890
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Novato, CA
Default

Awesome!

wait we have to race against you guys

-Noah
LICmotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2010, 10:26 PM   #8
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
On this particular car running more boost did not make more power. The car flows so much air that the turbo is effectively done at 22 psi at redline. To give you an idea of how much air we are flowing:

Injector duty cycle on 2200 cc injectors is ~70%
Maf voltage with a 4.96 with a Perrin Big MAF intake.

I love this particular STi. We've done several 500+ whp subaru's in the past few months. The path to this power level is becoming somewhat formulaic.

Best regards
Tim Bailey
awesome

If that is the case....... bigger turbo HTA86

GL
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2010, 10:43 PM   #9
fourmicah
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 128760
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Over there>
Vehicle:
2012 Ruckus/WRX
Red&White/Gray

Default

Nice work Tim, it's always nice to see a powerband where the car has 480 wtq at 3000 rpm's. Just sick!
fourmicah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 04:14 AM   #10
SHAG SCOOB
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 230828
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: L.A., CA AND YOUR MOM'S CRIB
Vehicle:
STI. FXT. EVO8.
WRX. RSTI. GF8.

Default

VERY NICE RICE!!!
SHAG SCOOB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 04:20 AM   #11
ejmalernee
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 129989
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Pensacola/FL
Vehicle:
2002 impreza 2.5Rsti
silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LICmotorsports View Post
Awesome!

wait we have to race against you guys

-Noah
this made me laugh. Good luck to both you guys.
ejmalernee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 10:37 AM   #12
Steve.804
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 68647
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Richmond, VA
Vehicle:
07 STI
Rotated 35R Jorge Tuned

Default

Damn...I'm not even sure what to say about that GTR because in the Subaru 35R world, that's a pretty decent powerband

Sorry for my ignorance, but I assume these two vehicles will be in different classes?
Steve.804 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 10:47 AM   #13
juanmedina
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 133146
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SC
Vehicle:
07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve.804 View Post
Damn...I'm not even sure what to say about that GTR because in the Subaru 35R world, that's a pretty decent powerband

Sorry for my ignorance, but I assume these two vehicles will be in different classes?
I don't think so , but they Sti should be lighter at least by a 1000lbs I hope
juanmedina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 11:39 AM   #14
lancelucas
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 124282
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: 30000 ft
Vehicle:
04 WRX Wagon PSM
13 STI Sedan SWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve.804 View Post
Damn...I'm not even sure what to say about that GTR because in the Subaru 35R world, that's a pretty decent powerband

Sorry for my ignorance, but I assume these two vehicles will be in different classes?
Yes. The STi is in Street AWD and the GTR is in Modified AWD.
lancelucas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 11:41 AM   #15
LICmotorsports
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 54890
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Novato, CA
Default

we have a fairly lightweight GD chassis, full weight (fuel, driver, everything to be on track) we are just a hair over 3,000lbs.

The GTR's do run in Mod AWD, which is same class as us. but the cobb GD vs. GTR are 2 different classes, not that it really matters much for side comparison the Cobb "street" GD has virtually same power and setup as our "Modified" GD. the only differences between these classes really is tires (which is unfortunate if you ask me, there should be a tire size restriction in place, as its real easy for a GTR to slap on really really big tires). so the cobb GD runs about 2-3 secs slower than our Mod GD, purely in tires.

the GTR i believe weighs in at 3400 ish

the cobb sti should be almost full weight (by the time it has cage, etc...) it might be a few hundred lbs lighter, not sure...what they did in regards to that.


-Noah
LICmotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 11:51 AM   #16
KBkilla0006
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 191303
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: memphis, tn
Vehicle:
2003 Impreza WRX
Sedona Red Pearl

Default

excuse my n00bness... but what is up with those afr's?
KBkilla0006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 11:52 AM   #17
LICmotorsports
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 54890
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Novato, CA
Default

^ runs E85 ^

-Noah
LICmotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 11:54 AM   #18
KBkilla0006
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 191303
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: memphis, tn
Vehicle:
2003 Impreza WRX
Sedona Red Pearl

Default

that's excessively rich for any fuel, is it not?
KBkilla0006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 11:55 AM   #19
LICmotorsports
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 54890
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Novato, CA
Default

not sure if Tim is using the gasoline equivalent or not, I assume not...but he'd be best to answer that one.

-Noah
LICmotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 11:56 AM   #20
LICmotorsports
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 54890
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Novato, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejmalernee View Post
this made me laugh. Good luck to both you guys.
ha ha thanks!

we need it

-Noah
LICmotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 11:57 AM   #21
lancelucas
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 124282
Join Date: Aug 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: 30000 ft
Vehicle:
04 WRX Wagon PSM
13 STI Sedan SWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KBkilla0006 View Post
that's excessively rich for any fuel, is it not?
No, stoich for E85 is ~9.7

In lambda, the STi is at ~.75

In gasoline equivalents, that is is 11.0


AFR is just a way of stating lambda in the units of the fuel type being used. Some day, the whole world will just speak lambda
lancelucas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 02:39 PM   #22
javid
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54304
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Atlanta
Vehicle:
04 STi
TopSpeed-dAng!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey View Post
On this particular car running more boost did not make more power. The car flows so much air that the turbo is effectively done at 22 psi at redline. To give you an idea of how much air we are flowing:

Injector duty cycle on 2200 cc injectors is ~70%
Maf voltage with a 4.96 with a Perrin Big MAF intake.

I love this particular STi. We've done several 500+ whp subaru's in the past few months. The path to this power level is becoming somewhat formulaic.

Best regards
Tim Bailey
This reads like you are suggesting a 35r can't make more than 22 psi on a 2.5L at 7k. Its certainly a nice powerband and setup; but I'm sure you know that a 35r is capable of more. Perhaps there's a restriction or limitation (intended or unintended) somewhere?

edit: is this a t25 hotside 35r?
javid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 02:54 PM   #23
Concillian
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4414
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dublin, CA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
Midnight Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by javid View Post
This reads like you are suggesting a 35r can't make more than 22 psi on a 2.5L at 7k. Its certainly a nice powerband and setup; but I'm sure you know that a 35r is capable of more. Perhaps there's a restriction or limitation (intended or unintended) somewhere?

edit: is this a t25 hotside 35r?
When you do racing cams + headwork + etc... it significantly reduces restriction at high RPM. Reducing restriction means more flow at the same PSI. You'll hit the flow limitation of the turbo at lower pressures. This is a pretty normal result.

A 35r will run way more than 22 psi at redline on a stock head, but the headwork & intake manifold removes significant restrictions and lets it flow the same (or more) air at lower boost.
Concillian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 03:14 PM   #24
javid
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 54304
Join Date: Feb 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Atlanta
Vehicle:
04 STi
TopSpeed-dAng!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
When you do racing cams + headwork + etc... it significantly reduces restriction at high RPM. Reducing restriction means more flow at the same PSI. You'll hit the flow limitation of the turbo at lower pressures. This is a pretty normal result.

A 35r will run way more than 22 psi at redline on a stock head, but the headwork & intake manifold removes significant restrictions and lets it flow the same (or more) air at lower boost.
I understand what higher efficiency does to flow vs boost. Forget about boost, plenty of 35r's flow more than this on 257's. I am curious why because I am wrapping up a similar build.

Not tryin to hate, just understand what held the car back.
javid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2010, 03:23 PM   #25
Hardrvin
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 63647
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Evansville, IN
Vehicle:
05 FXT
12.5 @ 109

Default

^ Looking at a compressor map for a 2.5L, that's about prime for flow and pressure ratio.

And as a time attack car, not just a one pass drag queen, you don't want to be dumping nasty heat into the motor.

Tim, you comment it's becoming "a standard formula." With that said, what are you finding is the big bottleneck up top, ports on the heads, intake manifold, or cams?
Hardrvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Official Results for the #21 COBB Tuning Subaru in Redline Time Attack WoopWoopSti Press Releases 47 11-21-2010 09:50 PM
COBB Tuning Motorsports Dominates Redline Time Attack Round 4 at Auto Club Speedway! Cobb Tuning Press Releases 0 06-02-2010 01:57 PM
COBB Tuning Surgeline Weekly Tunes! 4/26-4/30! 1 WRX, 4 STis and 1 GT-R! 2218WHP! Cobb Tuning Proven Power Bragging 11 05-04-2010 12:38 PM
COBB Tuning Surgeline Weekly Tunes! Five Subarus, a GT-R and a 350Z! Cobb Tuning Proven Power Bragging 5 04-09-2010 08:55 PM
COBB Tuning Surgeline Weekly Tunes (3/22-3/25)! 1741WHP Redline Time Attack Edition! Cobb Tuning Proven Power Bragging 11 03-30-2010 05:45 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.