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Old 02-23-2012, 12:20 PM   #426
FLYGUY09
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Looked back on this post to show a freind why i decided not to get Brembos...GREAT INFO... TIRES TIRES TIRES are where its at!!
PS:
Recently had to pull an evasive Zig zag maneuver @50+mph with only stock brakes (given the set of $125each new tires.) i was able to avoid totaling all 4+ cars that wouldve been hit cuz 1 ***hole on his cell phone.
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Old 02-23-2012, 01:08 PM   #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYGUY09
Looked back on this post to show a freind why i decided not to get Brembos...GREAT INFO... TIRES TIRES TIRES are where its at!!
PS:
Recently had to pull an evasive Zig zag maneuver @50+mph with only stock brakes (given the set of $125each new tires.) i was able to avoid totaling all 4+ cars that wouldve been hit cuz 1 ***hole on his cell phone.
Only $125 for tires, sounds like cheap rubber. And once you upgrade to sticky rubber, you then have a reason to add stronger brakes.
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Old 02-23-2012, 01:41 PM   #428
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Federal 595RS-R's and Dunlop Star Specs are both under $125 (for 225-45R17's)...neither of those are considered "cheap" in terms of performance...expensive doesn't always mean better
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Old 02-23-2012, 03:00 PM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amalgrover View Post
Federal 595RS-R's and Dunlop Star Specs are both under $125 (for 225-45R17's)...neither of those are considered "cheap" in terms of performance...expensive doesn't always mean better
The Star Specs in that size are $150 before shipping, so figure $170-180 per tire. Great tire for the money.

225 is the problem though, get some more meat on there so you can make better use of the brakes. I was thinking "larger tires" and forgot some guys are still on the tiny 225's. With 255+ your looking at $250-300 per wheel. Expensive doesn't always mean better......but it usually does, especially with performance tires.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:41 PM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIQUIDSK8S View Post
The Star Specs in that size are $150 before shipping, so figure $170-180 per tire. Great tire for the money.

225 is the problem though, get some more meat on there so you can make better use of the brakes. I was thinking "larger tires" and forgot most guys in street driven non-race cars (which is who this thread is directed towards) are still on the tiny 225's (or smaller). With 255+ (good luck getting 255+ under an 02-07 wrx wagon without running coilovers or wider fenders...even a sedan would have some issues with that big of a tire without a lot of mods) your looking at $250-300 per wheel. Expensive doesn't always mean better......but it usually does, especially with performance tires.
^ FIXED

...and...at a TRUE 500whp, i don't really have traction issues with my TINY 225's on the street and dragstrip with my crappy hankook ventus v12 evos. i'm sure that on a road course they would be an issue, but a racecar isn't really what this thread is about...so there goes that issue...



...i found the dunlops for $131 in that size from a shop here in town (which gets rid of your shipping issue)...



...the federal 595RSR's are only $106 for that size before shipping which puts them right around $125/tire shipped, and i would LOVE to see you find a person that felt like they didn't have enough traction with those things. THEY ARE VERY STICKY and run WAYYY wider than a normal 225...so...there goes that issue as well...
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:20 PM   #431
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[quote=Davenow;30899353]READ THIS FIRST

[color="Red"][i]The point of this thread, since no one seems to be able to get this, and I will add it to the first post is


goodness not to troll but you have a HUGE miss conception when it comes to braking and ill try to explain it too you. sooo obviously you have never raced or taking any driving classes cuz your all wrong (well not all wrong your point is tires are what stops you) well your spot on but you try and simplify it too much it does not come down to the tire there are many factors and i hope you read all this and maybe even reply back with you thoughts but braking has to do with more then just your tires from suspension to well everything in your car. your right tires only have a certain amount of friction they allow BUT thats so vague and to inform you the term of braking at max braking is called threshold braking locking up your brakes will cause a 30% increase in braking distance. so tires come into play but sumthing you talked about was setting the brakes or as you called the bite or what ever well the reason you want that bite is many, you brake hard at first to set the nose and squat the car this helps with braking distance your suspension can change braking distance weight obviously even the way you shift down (proper heal toe ) can change it i mean i really dont want to get into all the factors but i just wanted to inform you while two cars with different brakes but same tires may seem to have the same distance to zero thats wrong the tire only has a lets say 100 friction level intill lock up and activation of ABS the way you get to the 100% friction level is what matters and a whole list of things could change that but the best way to decrease braking distance isnt better tires or brakes its going to be a better driver with proper technique you can easily shave ten feet off your distance. not too be rude and no i didnt get bent out of shape but study braking befor commenting on it you are right but so much goes into this not just tires hope no one trolls im just trying to inform
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:50 PM   #432
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^ so according to you, the best upgrade for the brakes would be to R2 the driver...thanks for the info
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:29 AM   #433
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Wow. This is really good advice. Thanks!
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:59 PM   #434
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Incredible post, thank you for this. This clears up a lot off misconceptions I had about braking vs. horsepower adding, mods, etc.
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Old 04-19-2012, 06:17 PM   #435
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good info. i am well pleased.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:30 PM   #436
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great write up, and while I agree it may be over-simplified, it seems that was intentional to prove a point. I'm sure that if this thread were not in the noobie section it would have been a little more in-depth, but for the location of the post I think it provides a good base of knowledge, or at least a different way of looking at things. well done
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:28 AM   #437
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Going from totally shot front 1 pot calipers, pads, and rotors (everything was shot.. only half the surface of the rotor was being used), fresh Hawk pads and blank rotors with stock 1 pot calipers and rear drums are able to lock up my winter tires. I haven't tested them with my summer tires, but I honestly believe it would be hard to.

Maybe OP is referencing at least 2 pot WRX calipers and surface area. Either way, the 1 pots still get the job done fine for street driving and autocross with pads that provide better initial bite and a master cylinder brace to help pedal feel.

There is mostly truth in his thread, but it should be taken with a little grain of salt
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Old 05-05-2012, 03:19 AM   #438
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Very nice write up, thank you.

On a side note my OEM brakes did experience some significant fade from about 10 minutes of curvy mountain driving.
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:26 PM   #439
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makes perfect sense, just never thought about till reading this.
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:28 PM   #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmiovino View Post
Going from totally shot front 1 pot calipers, pads, and rotors (everything was shot.. only half the surface of the rotor was being used), fresh Hawk pads and blank rotors with stock 1 pot calipers and rear drums are able to lock up my winter tires. I haven't tested them with my summer tires, but I honestly believe it would be hard to.

Maybe OP is referencing at least 2 pot WRX calipers and surface area. Either way, the 1 pots still get the job done fine for street driving and autocross with pads that provide better initial bite and a master cylinder brace to help pedal feel.

There is mostly truth in his thread, but it should be taken with a little grain of salt
Initial bite doesnt come into play in emergency braking, pressing the brake quickly automatically fully engages the brakes and locks the tires, it will have the same bite.
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:54 AM   #441
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[quote=thesubiefan;36725175]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
READ THIS FIRST

[color="Red"][i]The point of this thread, since no one seems to be able to get this, and I will add it to the first post is


goodness not to troll but you have a HUGE miss conception when it comes to braking and ill try to explain it too you. sooo obviously you have never raced or taking any driving classes cuz your all wrong (well not all wrong your point is tires are what stops you) well your spot on but you try and simplify it too much it does not come down to the tire there are many factors and i hope you read all this and maybe even reply back with you thoughts but braking has to do with more then just your tires from suspension to well everything in your car. your right tires only have a certain amount of friction they allow BUT thats so vague and to inform you the term of braking at max braking is called threshold braking locking up your brakes will cause a 30% increase in braking distance. so tires come into play but sumthing you talked about was setting the brakes or as you called the bite or what ever well the reason you want that bite is many, you brake hard at first to set the nose and squat the car this helps with braking distance your suspension can change braking distance weight obviously even the way you shift down (proper heal toe ) can change it i mean i really dont want to get into all the factors but i just wanted to inform you while two cars with different brakes but same tires may seem to have the same distance to zero thats wrong the tire only has a lets say 100 friction level intill lock up and activation of ABS the way you get to the 100% friction level is what matters and a whole list of things could change that but the best way to decrease braking distance isnt better tires or brakes its going to be a better driver with proper technique you can easily shave ten feet off your distance. not too be rude and no i didnt get bent out of shape but study braking befor commenting on it you are right but so much goes into this not just tires hope no one trolls im just trying to inform
I have tried reading this mess about three times and I still don't understand what point you are trying to make/prove. Sure there is more to stopping than just brakes or tires, the OP isn't stupid, but I would still think that his premise is sound.

The suspension plays the role of helping keep equal amounts of traction (see weight) on all four tires. Obviously it doesn't do it perfectly as we have all seen the nose dive that cars do when braking, but the stiffness of the suspension plays a role in this. Without the role that the tires play, the suspension wouldn't matter.

An upgraded suspension can be a two edged sword. If the surface is smooth (like a track) then the stiffer the better(given a good driver), but on surface roads a stiff suspension will have less give and could actually lose grip on uneven surfaces (because the spring recovery time is effected by stiffness and damping). This is where road conditions play a role in stopping ability (roughness stickiness, along with the well known icy/wet).

In the end though, traction is a function of frictional rolling forces. The brakes play the big role in slowing the motion, but the tires are the weak link for quick stopping power. A tire that can produce more traction is going to stop better than a tire that cannot, given the same circumstances.

If I'm missing something in @thesubiefan's point, please let me know (and try to be clear).
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:15 PM   #442
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Great post. I just got learned, thank you.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:21 AM   #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
Unabomber says I agree with this post 1000% and I think it's the greatest post of 2010 so far.
I think it was the greatest post of 2006

Quote:
"BUT MY BUDDY PUT BREMBOS ON HIS WRX WITH WTFBBQ ALLOY PADS, SUPERBUTTSEKS INCREDITAINIUM LINES AND CHUCK NORRIS BRAND FLUID AND IT STOPS WAY HARDER."
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1154081
Quote:
"I don't believe you... I installed cross drilled rotors and my car stops on a DIME now!"
Quote:
I don't believe you... I have a BBK not just pads... I swear I stop like 50 feet sooner!
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:24 AM   #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
Lines, well lines are, from a stopping distance and fade standpoint, completely useless. Nail the brakes, things lock up rubber or steel lines makes no difference. Heat the brakes up, stainless lines have nothing to do with anything.

What lines DO get you, is a more consistant pedal, allowing more precise control.
This is the point i think most miss.
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:01 AM   #445
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i agree but the one thing i belive with a hp gain you should still upgrade your rotors to increase cooling and help elimnate warping as well as to ensure even brakeing too
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:54 AM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobymosher View Post
i agree but the one thing i belive with a hp gain you should still upgrade your rotors to increase cooling and help elimnate warping as well as to ensure even brakeing too
Do you hit the brake and the gas at the same time? Does more HP mean that the average speed you drive goes up? Do you spend a lot of time above 100 MPH?

Upgraded brakes are good for two things:
1). Looks (they look a lot better than the stock calipers with new wheels)
2). Track (better fade resistance and performance for constant use under racing conditions)
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:47 PM   #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobymosher View Post
i agree but the one thing i belive with a hp gain you should still upgrade your rotors to increase cooling and help elimnate warping as well as to ensure even brakeing too
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...nd-other-myths
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:41 PM   #448
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Sadly, from driving so much. brake pads wear out so quickly, but that's easy to fix. I'm about to change mine soon
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:35 PM   #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesubiefan View Post
and to inform you the term of braking at max braking is called threshold braking locking up your brakes will cause a 30% increase in braking distance.
That's a very specific number in the context of the large number of unknown variables which you've already mentioned that contribute to brake performance.

So I'd love to know where that magic number came from.


And some punctuation would help next time too. I can't really tell what you're trying to say because I can't decipher the sentence structure. Don't really care that much though, and the post is from 3 months ago. Heck, this thread is a few years old...

Last edited by fabrik8; 06-25-2012 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:09 PM   #450
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Great info!
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