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Old 09-07-2010, 06:47 PM   #176
bmrbsti17
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i get how they both stop within the same distance but if you are speeding the wrx brakes on my sti glow red and get too hot so bbk are intended for higher hp
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:58 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmrbsti17 View Post
i get how they both stop within the same distance but if you are speeding the wrx brakes on my sti glow red and get too hot so bbk are intended for higher hp
how does teh wrx brakes fit on a STi?



RANDi
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:11 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmrbsti17 View Post
i get how they both stop within the same distance but if you are speeding the wrx brakes on my sti glow red and get too hot so bbk are intended for higher hp
Glowing red hot is not in-itself a problem. If fluid is boiling or the bearing grease is getting cooked out or the pads are fading, it would be a problem. I've had my brakes on fire on the track for short periods. It really isn't a big deal.

Where are you driving that your brakes are glowing? Remember that brakes have nothing whatsoever to do with engine power. It has to do only with the weight and speed of the vehicle and tire traction. If you're in a 4000hp STi and a guy is next to you in a Suburban with a 75hp electric motor and you both have the same compound tires and are both going 100mph, the Suburban is the one whose going to need the bigger brakes.

You are correct that a bigger brake rotor and/or larger pads will reduce the chance to glow. On the other side of the coin.....when choosing race pads, I always looked at the heating requirement. If you oversize the brakes on a car, the pads (I'm talking track pads here) don't heat up enough and the brakes work like crap.
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:18 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGSKY View Post
how does teh wrx brakes fit on a STi?



RANDi
Swap the whole drivetrain of course duh...
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:56 AM   #180
Hirukuraimu
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Holylongpost
but i agree lol
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Old 09-12-2010, 01:46 PM   #181
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Brake Fluid is a hot topic because most people don't know why it should be changed. Did you know the average motorist who drives 10,000 to 15,000 miles a year uses his brakes about 75,000 times a year? Did you know that nearly half of all motorists in a recent
Council survey said brake failure was their number one fear amongst driving emergencies?

So consider this: After three years of service, the average boiling point of the brake fluid
has dropped to a potentially dangerous level because of moisture contamination.

Many experts have long recommend changing the brake fluid every year or two for preventative maintenance. Their rationale is based on the fact that glycol-based brake fluid starts to absorb moisture from the moment it is put in the system. The fluid attracts moisture through microscopic pores in rubber hoses, past seals and exposure to the air. The problem is obviously worse in wet climates where humidity is high.

An survey found that the brake fluid in 20% of 1,500 vehicles sampled contained 5% or more water!

As the concentration of moisture increases, it causes a sharp drop in the fluid's boiling temperature. Brand new DOT 3 brake fluid must have a dry (no moisture) boiling point of at least 401 degrees F, and a wet (moisture-saturated) boiling point of no less than 284 degrees. Most new DOT 3 fluids exceed these requirements and have a dry boiling point that ranges from 460 degrees up to over 500 degrees.

Only one percent water in the fluid can lower the boiling point of a typical DOT 3 fluid to 369 degrees. Two percent water can push the boiling point down to around 320 degrees, and three percent will take it all the way down to 293 degrees, which is getting dangerously close to the minimum DOT and OEM requirements.

DOT 4 fluid, which has a higher minimum boiling temperature requirement (446 degrees F dry and 311 degrees wet) soaks up moisture at a slower rate but suffers an even sharper drop in boiling temperature as moisture accumulates. Three percent water will lower the boiling point as much as 50%!

Considering the fact that today's front-wheel drive brake systems with semi-metallic linings run significantly hotter than their rear-wheel drive counterparts, high brake temperatures require fluid that can take the heat. But as we said earlier, the brake fluid in many of today's vehicles cannot because it is old and full of moisture.

Water contamination increases the danger of brake failure because vapor pockets can form if the fluid gets too hot. Vapor displaces fluid and is compressible, so when the brakes are applied the pedal may go all the way to the floor without applying the brakes!

In addition to the safety issue, water-laden brake fluid promotes corrosion and pitting in caliper pistons and bores, wheel cylinders, master cylinders, steel brake lines and ABS modulators.

This is one good reason for upgrading brakes and components on cars with high engine horse power ratings.
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Old 09-12-2010, 02:02 PM   #182
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Also brake pads material and driled/sloted rotors are important on brakes upgrades because it help to improve or handle noise, temperature, etc.
For example; Slots or grooves cut vertically, diagonally, or horizontally in the pads help to reduce noise by changing the frequency of vibration from an audible level to a higher, inaudible frequency beyond the range of the human ear. Slots also help reduce brake fade by providing a passage for gases and dust to escape at high brake temperatures.

Also as you stated before, compound of tire help you to get more cornering, handling, braking etc. Pads meterial is also important. And you can find two important types of brake compounds, "CERAMIC & SEMI-METALIC".

Pros of Ceramic:
- In general, they last longer than semi-metallic
- They can take slightly more abuse
- They leave minimal brake dust, and the dust that is left is less noticeable-a nice complement to chrome and alloy wheels.

Cons of Ceramic:
- Ceramic brakes need to warm up a before they attain the grip of semi-metallic pads.
- They're more expensive-sometimes considerably more.
- Also, some ceramic brake pads wear out rotors faster than organic and some semi-metallic pads.

Pros of Semi-Metallic:
- Better grip than ceramic when cold and warm.
- Often less expensive than ceramic

Cons of Semi-Metallic
- Shorter life
- Brake dust is much more apparent.
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:55 PM   #183
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Good read, learned a lot.
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Old 09-16-2010, 09:29 AM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnman View Post
You posted an article in the Noob forum that was unclear and arguably inaccurate.
Here is the intention of the thread.

Little jonny buys a subie
Little jonny mods to 3812398whp
Little jonny stands on it pulling out of school to show off
Bus pulls out in front of little jonny
Little jonny hits the brakes hard to not hit the bus



the tires will determine how short his car stops, brake upgrades will have zero affect.



Because this is the type of situation that 99% of people will only ever be faced with where stopping power is a key issue.
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Old 09-16-2010, 09:39 AM   #185
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awesome timing with this post, I was looking into BBK upgrades b/c my rotors are wearing down and starting to cause some wheel vibration. I think I'll just replace the rotors/pads and call it a day while I take that $3000 I had set aside for brakes and use it for something else.
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Old 09-16-2010, 09:42 AM   #186
Beau.williams
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what is the easiest way to get a increase in horsepower
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:56 PM   #187
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there is the difference, if you want a car to take a tour around the town, you dont need mods to 3812398whp, or upgraded brakes. but if you use the car for more than take a little stroll around the town... you definitly need to get some updates in your car whatever the brand of your car be. GO to youtube and check ghymkana 3 from kem block and let me know if you can handle a car like that whit a stock brakes. Obviosly he is not going behing school buses waiting it stops to hit hard the brakes.
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:30 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beau.williams View Post
what is the easiest way to get a increase in horsepower
:slap:
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:41 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmersolutions View Post
there is the difference, if you want a car to take a tour around the town, you dont need mods to 3812398whp, or upgraded brakes. but if you use the car for more than take a little stroll around the town... you definitly need to get some updates in your car whatever the brand of your car be. GO to youtube and check ghymkana 3 from kem block and let me know if you can handle a car like that whit a stock brakes. Obviosly he is not going behing school buses waiting it stops to hit hard the brakes.
... Are you saying the average subie owner drives as hard as Ken Block?













Didn't think so...
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:01 PM   #190
bimmersolutions
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No, i just saying mods is for heavy driving, i have had my car moded for years and i race some times on 1/4 mile because i like it, But i have a stock brakes because i cant spend money on brakes mods but is under my own risk, i understand the operation of each part of the vehicle and i know when and how it should be used. and definitively while more hp more brake stop power you should be.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:52 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmersolutions View Post
definitively while more hp more brake stop power you should be.

For the average person, who DOESNT (because the average person DOESNT, they drive around, nailing the gas in a straight line, then hitting the brakes, and not over and over. ) drive in situations with repeated hard braking which could overheat the brakes causing fade..

Name ONE difference that upgraded brakes would make.


You guys are missing this concept, an object that weighs @3500lbs with driver, traveling at 100mph will take the same amount of force to stop regardless of the power output potential of the engine. That sort of stop, even an OH ISHT OMG OMG stop, WILL NOT FADE THE STOCK BRAKES. Which leaves traction as the only limiting factor in stopping distance, as the OEM brakes have more than enough power to overcome the traction limits of even a dedicated R compound tire (when not overheated).
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Old 09-16-2010, 11:22 PM   #192
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why do 99% of the people on here have to be such cheap asses!! lighter rotors = less rotaional mass equals more power.
if your on the track and breaking heavily repeatedly you should have higher boiling point brake fluid and rotors that are a little stronger on the internals. the first time i went on a run throught the mountains, i boiled my brake fluid warmed the rotors, and almost went off in the ditch. so how is better rotors and fluid not worth it?!?
if you do not drive your car hard yes i def agree that upgrading anything is a complete waste.
and for the record stainless lines give you a much better pedal feel vs the standard soft feel.
STOP BEING CHEAP ****ers!!!
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Old 09-17-2010, 12:30 AM   #193
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^Because I have an ex-wife and two kids. Stockers will work for me thank you.
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Old 09-17-2010, 01:17 AM   #194
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great argument......proved lots of good points and completely saved me lots of money
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:41 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Collins25ts View Post
great argument......proved lots of good points and completely saved me lots of money
couldn't agree more

thanks for bringing this common (yet seemingly uncommon) knowledge to the forefront
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Old 10-08-2010, 05:28 PM   #196
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Ummm so good arument if we are debating based on opinion, but where are the facts? Controlled stopping tests on same car with different brakes? Braking under hard track driving vs. street driving, wet and dry braking, and on and on.

You're stickies seem to be opinion and severely lacking in the evidence department, I would be more inclined to read what you say if it wasn't just opinion after opinion with nothing besides your (1 person's) experience. As for buying a brembo/stoptech brake set for looks, that is not legit, it is called being a ricer. Might as well just paint the calipers red and throw on a brembo vinyl, same effect.
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Old 10-09-2010, 10:37 AM   #197
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If you're trying to shed weight, rotors are one of many places to do it. I think the stock fronts were 22lbs and the replacement ones I bought were 16.

Replacing my calipers is my next chore, trying to find a caliper (stoptech) that is less bulky than the front Brembos (the rears are fine) so that I can fit my wheels better and be rid of the 10mm spacer, or lessen it to 3mm.

Those are my brake goals for simplified reasons.

I have never had a problem with the stock Brembos and I think most people with other cars would be jealous to have such a brake system come stock on theirs.
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Old 10-09-2010, 11:57 AM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmrbsti17 View Post
i get how they both stop within the same distance but if you are speeding the wrx brakes on my sti glow red and get too hot so bbk are intended for higher hp

2 cars. 1with 200 HP, 1 with 400 hp.

Both traveling at the same speed (let's say 60)
Both braking for the same duration/ distance
Both require the EXACT same force to stop. (because both cars have the same velocity and mass)

Bigger brakes don't get to better stopping power. A higher HP doesn't mean you need bigger brakes....The bigger brakes are helpful when you talk about repeated hard braking (like the track) where heat induced fade comes into play.... But to say more HP = bigger brakes makes no sense.
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Old 10-09-2010, 01:40 PM   #199
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I'm lookin into getting new pads for my 04 wrx...I'm tight on money, and have been lookin at autozone for brakes. I've seen some different types, semi-metallic, and non-asbestos, organic. Is there a big difference? Should I steer away from autozone brakes? I don't know how long the ones I have now have been on there, so I'd like to get new ones.
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:01 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jddssc121 View Post
2 cars. 1with 200 HP, 1 with 400 hp.

Both traveling at the same speed (let's say 60)
Both braking for the same duration/ distance
Both require the EXACT same force to stop. (because both cars have the same velocity and mass)

Bigger brakes don't get to better stopping power. A higher HP doesn't mean you need bigger brakes....The bigger brakes are helpful when you talk about repeated hard braking (like the track) where heat induced fade comes into play.... But to say more HP = bigger brakes makes no sense.
^great summary.
People have reading comprehension problems, or they are a vendor.
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