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Old 10-12-2010, 03:27 AM   #201
Davenow
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^great summary.
People have reading comprehension problems, or they are a vendor.
Hey now I was a vendor once
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Old 10-12-2010, 03:35 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Subiracer06 View Post
why do 99% of the people on here have to be such cheap asses!! lighter rotors = less rotaional mass equals more power.
if your on the track and breaking heavily repeatedly you should have higher boiling point brake fluid and rotors that are a little stronger on the internals. the first time i went on a run throught the mountains, i boiled my brake fluid warmed the rotors, and almost went off in the ditch. so how is better rotors and fluid not worth it?!?
if you do not drive your car hard yes i def agree that upgrading anything is a complete waste.
and for the record stainless lines give you a much better pedal feel vs the standard soft feel.
STOP BEING CHEAP ****ers!!!
wow...

Ok so lets address a few things that are off in this post.

Lighter rotors... Nice try . BBKs pretty much all use rotors that are a good bit heavier than stock. The ones that ARE lighter, the difference is so small, that there is absolutely zero real world, or even measureable on a hub mount dyno, difference.

"stronger on the internals" (speaking of rotors)
REALLY? Did you just actually say that? If you believe that, well there isn't much point in this going any further. But I will humor you.


The first time you went in the mountains you overheated your rotors.

No, you overheated your pads and fluid. Big difference.

There is also an almost 100% chance poor braking technique was a big factor.

Larger rotors will take more heat before they have problems. But what you experienced was heating the pads up beyond their effective temp range, and boiling the fluid.

YES a larger rotor will absorb more heat before it soaks into the pads (and fluid) But if you are having heat problems in the pads and fluid, there is almost never a case where simply going to a larger rotor is going to fix it in any meaningful amount.

What would have solved this would be higher temp pads, and higher temp fluid, along with a liberal dose of driving lessons. OEM rotors are just fine, and there are a **** ton of track guys who are better and faster than you or I will ever be, that run OEM rotors and have zero brake problems.

"for the record"
No one said stainless lines didn't give you better feel. In fact, I very clearly said they do.

"stop being cheap asses"
I have more invested under my hood than you likely have into your entire car. Want to even begin to try to compare dollars spent? If your number doesn't start with a 7, and have five zeros behind it, then go away. I don't have a BBK or special rotors because there is zero need for more than what I have. Decent pads, stainless lines and fluid. No BBK, no special leetsauce rotors. Oh, forgot the most important part. Big fat wide sticky tires.



But what would I know. I have only been doing this for 20 years. Reading your post I would say that you were what? 3? 4? years old when I started working on and around race cars? (as in actual race cars. Drag and circle track)

Last edited by Davenow; 10-12-2010 at 03:43 AM.
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:25 AM   #203
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I have been preaching these points to friends that don't track their car for years. They still don't listen.
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Old 10-14-2010, 10:36 AM   #204
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Default Rally & Rally-X use left foot braking...a lot

Just wanted to chime in that Rally and Rally-X racers use left foot braking before lifting to more precisely control the attitude of the car (weight shift). When you lift in the higher RPMs with more boost the car does a serious nose dive, so they left foot brake before lifting to control this effect so it's not a jolt forward when they do lift. Search Youtube for Colin, Ken, Travis, or Dave and I'm sure you can find some in-car video that shows them braking before lifting. Not trying to step on any toes, and I completely agree with this writeup, but you can definitely see glowing rotors in those famous long-exposure night-rally pics (even on dirt/gravel) due to what I mention here.
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Old 10-14-2010, 12:58 PM   #205
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Quote:
"BUT MY BUDDY PUT BREMBOS ON HIS WRX WITH WTFBBQ ALLOY PADS, SUPERBUTTSEKS INCREDITAINIUM LINES AND CHUCK NORRIS BRAND FLUID AND IT STOPS WAY HARDER."
LMAO
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Old 10-14-2010, 05:36 PM   #206
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I am in agreement here on all sane posts.

All I have is Hawk HPS pads, Motul Fluid and Gruppe-S lines...works just fine for me...have never overheated them but I only have done Auto-X and some spirited driving.

Would only upgrade the rotors if I had to change the stock ones because of wear but even then only if the price to upgrade wasn't far off from the price of stock replacements.
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:41 AM   #207
selectwrx
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nice i like it
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:59 AM   #208
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Thanks Davenow, you just saved me $2k on brakes jk. Its funny how so many people have said to me that the "next step" is a BBK, lol
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Old 10-17-2010, 05:48 PM   #209
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so what if you arent locking up your brakes? will brembos stop faster than wrx (non 4 pots) if your stopping on pads alone? meaning no tire skid
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:14 PM   #210
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Great write up!
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:07 AM   #211
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"stop being cheap asses"
I have more invested under my hood than you likely have into your entire car. Want to even begin to try to compare dollars spent? If your number doesn't start with a 7, and have five zeros behind it, then go away. I don't have a BBK or special rotors because there is zero need for more than what I have. Decent pads, stainless lines and fluid. No BBK, no special leetsauce rotors. Oh, forgot the most important part. Big fat wide sticky tires.


for one you are an idiot for spending that much on your maximum 30k car. Two, is not a penis contest ya d bag, get over yourself and your ****ty brakes. look beyond your computer and look what happens in real life.
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:57 AM   #212
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Old 10-21-2010, 03:46 AM   #213
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lol sounds like most of these people in this post has never experience brake failure (were not talking due to mechanical here, were talking failure due to heat). It is a different experience when you have one hand on the hand break, the other hand on the sifter, throwing down the gears, steering with your knees, and trying to use both hands to praying that your going to come to a stop. I've gotten my cheeks to pucker a few times due to fading in my stock 06 wrx. It is amusing to read this post while I shop for my first upgrade, brakes, disk, etc..
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:37 AM   #214
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great thread... can't argue with physics
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Old 10-21-2010, 10:44 PM   #215
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For those still saying it is a must... it is about application, for those of us not taking our car to the trackvand not driving like a douche on the road, it is a worthless upgrade. I can't see a time ever that while driving within a few miles an hour of the posted speed limit you will ever get your brakes that hot that you experience fade. So note out loud where you are finding yourself fading and see how fast you get flamed, cuz most of you aren't shelling out the bucks to hit the closed circuits. (No offense to those that are shelling out the bucks).

BTW Adrenalin, i had noticed the left foot braking and never knew why, thanks for the insight.
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:39 AM   #216
lovemywagon
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pad??
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:25 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
wow...

Ok so lets address a few things that are off in this post.

Lighter rotors... Nice try . BBKs pretty much all use rotors that are a good bit heavier than stock. The ones that ARE lighter, the difference is so small, that there is absolutely zero real world, or even measureable on a hub mount dyno, difference.

"stronger on the internals" (speaking of rotors)
REALLY? Did you just actually say that? If you believe that, well there isn't much point in this going any further. But I will humor you.


The first time you went in the mountains you overheated your rotors.

No, you overheated your pads and fluid. Big difference.

There is also an almost 100% chance poor braking technique was a big factor.

Larger rotors will take more heat before they have problems. But what you experienced was heating the pads up beyond their effective temp range, and boiling the fluid.

YES a larger rotor will absorb more heat before it soaks into the pads (and fluid) But if you are having heat problems in the pads and fluid, there is almost never a case where simply going to a larger rotor is going to fix it in any meaningful amount.

What would have solved this would be higher temp pads, and higher temp fluid, along with a liberal dose of driving lessons. OEM rotors are just fine, and there are a **** ton of track guys who are better and faster than you or I will ever be, that run OEM rotors and have zero brake problems.

"for the record"
No one said stainless lines didn't give you better feel. In fact, I very clearly said they do.

"stop being cheap asses"
I have more invested under my hood than you likely have into your entire car. Want to even begin to try to compare dollars spent? If your number doesn't start with a 7, and have five zeros behind it, then go away. I don't have a BBK or special rotors because there is zero need for more than what I have. Decent pads, stainless lines and fluid. No BBK, no special leetsauce rotors. Oh, forgot the most important part. Big fat wide sticky tires.



But what would I know. I have only been doing this for 20 years. Reading your post I would say that you were what? 3? 4? years old when I started working on and around race cars? (as in actual race cars. Drag and circle track)


Are you saying you've spent $700,000 on your subaru??? Wouldn't that be a 7 with 5 zeroes after it?


I don't understand why you still have a Subaru with that kind of money in it lol.
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:09 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruz4life View Post
Are you saying you've spent $700,000 on your subaru??? Wouldn't that be a 7 with 5 zeroes after it?


I don't understand why you still have a Subaru with that kind of money in it lol.
Could be $7,000.00

But I know Dave has more than $7,000.00 pissed away into his Forester.
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Old 10-22-2010, 04:22 PM   #219
Soccerkid52688
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post





"BUT MY BUDDY PUT BREMBOS ON HIS WRX WITH WTFBBQ ALLOY PADS, SUPERBUTTSEKS INCREDITAINIUM LINES AND CHUCK NORRIS BRAND FLUID AND IT STOPS WAY HARDER."


No, it doesnt. It has a lot more INITIAL BITE.
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:53 PM   #220
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Default Brake Fluid

"Fluid, unless you are doing repeated hard braking enough to boil normal fluid, going to "upgraded" fluid, is a waste of money, and $18/bottle motul wont get you anything that $3 autozone fluid wont. "



I've made the stock Brake Fluid boil on a couple of cars on track days and autocrosses. Replaced them with Super Blue. Problemm solved.
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:04 AM   #221
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and if you think rotors all look and function the same "internally" you are just



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Old 10-26-2010, 12:31 AM   #222
SARoyce
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Default Weight loss...

Great post, especially the the weight loss bit, better to do the weight loss first, the car will accelerate faster in all directions (forward, left, right, and backwards), by the by, unless you are going to compete for sound, go easy on the stereo, driver magnets weigh too much for a car expected to move, also easy on the big girlfriends, they'll slow you down too...
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Old 10-27-2010, 12:24 AM   #223
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Post is dead on. I run stock calipers on my '06 WRX making 401WHP and 450WTQ. I notice no difference in stopping distance compared to running lower boost on normal radials. When I run my gravel tires on the street I would say my car doesn't stop for ****.

Last edited by LongSTI; 10-27-2010 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:30 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Ruz4life View Post
Are you saying you've spent $700,000 on your subaru??? Wouldn't that be a 7 with 5 zeroes after it?


I don't understand why you still have a Subaru with that kind of money in it lol.

Yeah oops.

4 0's Roughly 70k. That includes the price of the car, and the cost of mods that I had done/removed and sold. As it sits right now it would cost somewhere around 55-60k to duplicate.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:31 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Subiracer06 View Post
and if you think rotors all look and function the same "internally" you are just




Obviously I know that. Probably have known that longer than you have been alive.
Let me guess, you think that makes any difference to anyone who isn't a professional racer, on a real race track.

Let me guess, you think it really actually makes any worthwile difference to them too
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