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Old 05-21-2010, 11:57 AM   #1
WTFWJD014
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Default Can I Stage II without all the Cobb Equipment?

Hey guys,

The title really just explains it. MY friend has his new Cobb Stage II AP and he was wondering if I'd be interested in it.

Now the question is: Can my 05 WRX handle the new stage II without all the Cobb equipment? Or does it need to have all the stuff on there?

My car is stock, but I plan on having at least internals done after said flash is complete (if it can be). Rods, pistons, gasket rings, etc. But i'm afraid that the engine or anything else can't handle the hp/tq increase.

Please help!

Thanks
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Old 05-21-2010, 12:20 PM   #2
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Minimum requirements are CObb's short ram intake and a full turbo-back exhaust. Any brand short ram intake will suffice and any brand turbo back exhaust will be fine also.

Normally people buy all the usual bolt on upgrades first (bigger TMIC or FMIC, headers, turbos, intakes, etc.) and then blueprint their engine w/ internals. But if you want to do internals first, then go for it. It makes your block stronger anyway and prepares you for BIG future mods.

It's worth it to get the AP v2 if you're still going to mod your car. Since you're car is stock, you can flash it to the stage 1 map. The maximum requirements for stage 1 is that you're bone stock lol
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Old 05-21-2010, 03:05 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by SueBaroo View Post
Minimum requirements are CObb's short ram intake and a full turbo-back exhaust. Any brand short ram intake will suffice and any brand turbo back exhaust will be fine also.
Please read the map notes. That is not what Cobb recommends. You can't run any old intake, and the exhaust must have a cat.

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Old 05-21-2010, 07:46 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by WTFWJD014 View Post
But i'm afraid that the engine or anything else can't handle the hp/tq increase.
The Cobb stage 2 map is meant for a stock car with just a TBE exhaust. Why would your car be the only car not to magically handle the insane power unleashed.............seriously.
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Old 05-21-2010, 08:18 PM   #5
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The Cobb stage 2 map is meant for a stock car with just a TBE exhaust. Why would your car be the only car not to magically handle the insane power unleashed.............seriously.
This is exactly why I asked the question smart ass.............seriously.

"Please read the map notes. That is not what Cobb recommends. You can't run any old intake, and the exhaust must have a cat."

Well that is not true, the exhaust doesn't NEED to be catted, they offer de-catted exhaust as well, it just is illegal in some states. VA, kinda sucks with what proper, legal db levels you can have. But you are right with the intake, it needs to be theres.

I'm probably still going to just do Stage I and see how it fairs for me. Not a bad increase in power either
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:47 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Please read the map notes. That is not what Cobb recommends. You can't run any old intake, and the exhaust must have a cat.

Cat is only required for the 06+ WRX's with the 2.5L. Maybe you should read the map notes for the 2.0L (02-05) WRX's as the OP has an 05 WRX.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:52 AM   #7
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Well that is not true, the exhaust doesn't NEED to be catted, they offer de-catted exhaust as well, it just is illegal in some states. VA, kinda sucks with what proper, legal db levels you can have. But you are right with the intake,
Any change in exhaust from stock is illegal technically regardless if it has a cat in it or not. VA isn't really as bad as say CA. The one thing you have going for is the emmision dyno's are only 2wd so they can't put you car on it and sniffer test it (unless things have changed). They just do a visual check and OBDII check. I passed with flying colors every time when I lived in Northern VA. Now I live in a rural area (still in VA) where emissions are not even required.
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Old 05-22-2010, 11:20 AM   #8
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02-05's only require a full turbo back exhaust and either the stock airbox or cobb's short ram intake. You can go catted or catless, but be aware there can be a few cars that have boost issues that run catless, almost always in the 2.5's...sometimes with the 2.0's. You are not restricted to cobb branded parts. I'm not on here too often but you can find me over on cobb's forum helping out.
Let me say it again, you can use the stock airbox, unless you want to waste your money on the sri...just my opinion tho.
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:06 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by quazimoto View Post
Any change in exhaust from stock is illegal technically regardless if it has a cat in it or not. VA isn't really as bad as say CA. The one thing you have going for is the emmision dyno's are only 2wd so they can't put you car on it and sniffer test it (unless things have changed). They just do a visual check and OBDII check. I passed with flying colors every time when I lived in Northern VA. Now I live in a rural area (still in VA) where emissions are not even required.
Yeah, my friend and I got pulled over here in Ashburn for his firebird's exhaust was too loud.

Where did you get emissions checked in NOVA? I want to find a good place to go besides goodyear And did you move because there is no where to put the wrx to good use here in NOVA?
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Old 05-26-2010, 06:58 AM   #10
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I used to just go to any old Mineke or gas station. No where really special. Just don't reset/reflash the ECU before you go or the car will not pass the "readiness" status. I moved to Fauqiuer Co. Bigger house,more land and alot more fun backroads to drive! The fact that I don't have to do emmisions was a plus I wasn't expecting.
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Old 05-26-2010, 01:25 PM   #11
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Cat is only required for the 06+ WRX's with the 2.5L. Maybe you should read the map notes for the 2.0L (02-05) WRX's as the OP has an 05 WRX.
Ok I guess I should've underlined the part about HIGH FLOW CATALYTIC CONVERTER. Read it again. It specifically said 2005 WRX.
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Old 05-26-2010, 01:41 PM   #12
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EDIT----Now that I have read the post again i see that he already has his AP. He should be able to go stg2 with no issues as long as he follows the map notes. I was going to throw out the open source option but when I read the post again i see he already has the AP and you are thinking about buying it is guess. Just make sure he unmarries it from his car before you buy it. The AP can only be used on one ECU at a time.


just a note a Normal stg2 needs -

-3" Catless/Catted Downpipe (full TBE recommended)
-Aftermarket or Gutted Stock Up-Pipe
-K&N Panel Filter or COBB Short ram intake...

and some data logging to make sure that everything works togather.

Last edited by atvracer111; 05-26-2010 at 02:15 PM. Reason: added notes
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Old 05-26-2010, 02:40 PM   #13
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Ok I guess I should've underlined the part about HIGH FLOW CATALYTIC CONVERTER. Read it again. It specifically said 2005 WRX.
It does say that. Maybe Cobb can comment since the 02-04's don't have that listed and its not listed in hardware requirement or additional notes.
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atvracer111 View Post
EDIT----Now that I have read the post again i see that he already has his AP. He should be able to go stg2 with no issues as long as he follows the map notes. I was going to throw out the open source option but when I read the post again i see he already has the AP and you are thinking about buying it is guess. Just make sure he unmarries it from his car before you buy it. The AP can only be used on one ECU at a time.


just a note a Normal stg2 needs -

-3" Catless/Catted Downpipe (full TBE recommended)
-Aftermarket or Gutted Stock Up-Pipe
-K&N Panel Filter or COBB Short ram intake...

and some data logging to make sure that everything works togather.
Well, it's not me who has it already, my friend does, and he is just going to let me borrow it so that I can flash it.

I talked to Rick S. from Rally Sport Direct and he said that as long as I have a cattless DP I am fine. I am very fond of the Invidia G200 exhaust. And with the cattless V3 DP, it sounds just right for me. My friend who has the AP has an STI OEM UP pipe and he just "bored" it out and cleaned it, sand blasted , etc. and giving it to me for free as well. Rick also said that he prefers the K&N intake. I sort of agree, I definitely trust a name that is dominant in the market for filters/intakes, over a company dominant in AP's. But Cobb does make very reliable pieces of equipment. I am not doubting that.

All-in-all, I am most likely going to just do stage I for now. And see how that fairs for me, but I am sure I will get tired of that increase in hp/tq And go for the Stage II area. But I am no road rally(er), but it sure would be fun

But thank you for the information
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Old 05-27-2010, 06:07 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by WTFWJD014 View Post
Well, it's not me who has it already, my friend does, and he is just going to let me borrow it so that I can flash it.

I talked to Rick S. from Rally Sport Direct and he said that as long as I have a cattless DP I am fine. I am very fond of the Invidia G200 exhaust. And with the cattless V3 DP, it sounds just right for me. My friend who has the AP has an STI OEM UP pipe and he just "bored" it out and cleaned it, sand blasted , etc. and giving it to me for free as well. Rick also said that he prefers the K&N intake. I sort of agree, I definitely trust a name that is dominant in the market for filters/intakes, over a company dominant in AP's. But Cobb does make very reliable pieces of equipment. I am not doubting that.

All-in-all, I am most likely going to just do stage I for now. And see how that fairs for me, but I am sure I will get tired of that increase in hp/tq And go for the Stage II area. But I am no road rally(er), but it sure would be fun

But thank you for the information
A couple of things I picked up on...does your friend have an STI? if so you need to be aware the COBB accessport for the 04-05 wrx is a different part# from the 04-05 sti. I dont think you can you use the 04-05 sti accessport on the 04-05 wrx you might want to check on that.

The second thing is if your friend has already used the AP to flash his car you can not use it to flash yours. The AP locks itself to the car it is flashed to. If he has unmarried it from his car then you can use it but he will not be able to use it after that unless you unmarry it from your car.

The third thing is you will not need the downpipe or uppipe if you go stage one. The stage one is just a good filter and flash see COBB STG1 notes below...

COBB STG1 Hardware Requirements 93oct: Intended for stock vehicles, no performance hardware necessary. MUST USE FACTORY OR COBB SF INTAKE SYSTEM, NO OTHER AFTERMARKET INTAKES ARE CERTIFIED COMPATIBLE WITH THIS CALIBRATION.

and finally if you put the downpipe, k&N filter and the uppipe on you will need to flash the stg2 map. If you run that on the stg1 map you risk hurting your engine in a bad way. The stg1 map is not for an open downpipe, uppipe, and K&N filter or intake mods.

You can PM me with questions if you need help...good luck with the upgrade...
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:30 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by atvracer111 View Post
A couple of things I picked up on...does your friend have an STI? if so you need to be aware the COBB accessport for the 04-05 wrx is a different part# from the 04-05 sti. I dont think you can you use the 04-05 sti accessport on the 04-05 wrx you might want to check on that.

The second thing is if your friend has already used the AP to flash his car you can not use it to flash yours. The AP locks itself to the car it is flashed to. If he has unmarried it from his car then you can use it but he will not be able to use it after that unless you unmarry it from your car.

The third thing is you will not need the downpipe or uppipe if you go stage one. The stage one is just a good filter and flash see COBB STG1 notes below...

COBB STG1 Hardware Requirements 93oct: Intended for stock vehicles, no performance hardware necessary. MUST USE FACTORY OR COBB SF INTAKE SYSTEM, NO OTHER AFTERMARKET INTAKES ARE CERTIFIED COMPATIBLE WITH THIS CALIBRATION.

and finally if you put the downpipe, k&N filter and the uppipe on you will need to flash the stg2 map. If you run that on the stg1 map you risk hurting your engine in a bad way. The stg1 map is not for an open downpipe, uppipe, and K&N filter or intake mods.

You can PM me with questions if you need help...good luck with the upgrade...
1. My friend has an 04 wrx wagon.
2. He has already "unmarried" it from his car. I am free to use it as I please.
3. I am aware that nothing is necessary for stage I. However, I have talked to Rallysportsdirect, and they have said that it is ok for me to have any upgrade on my car and have stage I. It says so performance mods necessary. It is meant for a bone stock wrx, it will work with any upgrade so long as I put the AP to its proper use. A K&N would help the engine out and a DP would just decrease the spool time of the turbo and increase thrust (if I am right), nothing is harmed by upgrading; well.... Sometimes it is. But in this case, it is not harming anything.

But a K&N added to a car, as well as a DP is fine for stage I. However, if what you're saying is true, then I would love to see some evidence of some sort. I've never heard of upgrading a car to be able to handle a higher power capacity and it failing because it can't do it. It makes no sense.
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:33 AM   #17
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The Stage1 OTS Map WG duty cycles are really high to help bring on boost with the restrictive factory blank plate downpipe. If you use that map with a bellmouth downpipe you WILL overboost and run the risk of hurting something. If you go with a downpipe, flash a stage 2 map to the car. If those guys told you could add any performance part and flash a stage 1 map, I would highly recommend doing business with someone else as all they are concerned with is sales.
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:39 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by jason02wrx View Post
The Stage1 OTS Map WG duty cycles are really high to help bring on boost with the restrictive factory blank plate downpipe. If you use that map with a bellmouth downpipe you WILL overboost and run the risk of hurting something. If you go with a downpipe, flash a stage 2 map to the car. If those guys told you could add any performance part and flash a stage 1 map, I would highly recommend doing business with someone else as all they are concerned with is sales.
Well said jason02wrx....
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:42 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFWJD014 View Post
1. My friend has an 04 wrx wagon.
2. He has already "unmarried" it from his car. I am free to use it as I please.
3. I am aware that nothing is necessary for stage I. However, I have talked to Rallysportsdirect, and they have said that it is ok for me to have any upgrade on my car and have stage I. It says so performance mods necessary. It is meant for a bone stock wrx, it will work with any upgrade so long as I put the AP to its proper use. A K&N would help the engine out and a DP would just decrease the spool time of the turbo and increase thrust (if I am right), nothing is harmed by upgrading; well.... Sometimes it is. But in this case, it is not harming anything.

But a K&N added to a car, as well as a DP is fine for stage I. However, if what you're saying is true, then I would love to see some evidence of some sort. I've never heard of upgrading a car to be able to handle a higher power capacity and it failing because it can't do it. It makes no sense.
IM not saying that it will fail i am saying it is not recommended and it could cause damage to run the open downpipe with the stg1 map because it is not tuned for the open downpipe. Do a little research and you will find that you should not run a open downpipe with a stg1 map. Thats why they have the stg2 map that uses the open downpipe and uppipe because the map has been tuned for it. I have been road tuning for several years and I never tell anyone to run the stg1 map from cobb or xpt or any tune for that matter with an open downpipe without tuning the car correctly for it. If you are going to run the stg1 map with the open downpipe I would recommed you do some data logging and see what it is doing or just go ahead and run the stg2 since you have the parts. Just trying to help not start an argument...
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Old 05-31-2010, 12:41 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by jason02wrx View Post
The Stage1 OTS Map WG duty cycles are really high to help bring on boost with the restrictive factory blank plate downpipe. If you use that map with a bellmouth downpipe you WILL overboost and run the risk of hurting something. If you go with a downpipe, flash a stage 2 map to the car. If those guys told you could add any performance part and flash a stage 1 map, I would highly recommend doing business with someone else as all they are concerned with is sales.
Never knew that. Thanks man, well is there a way on the AP to lower the boost? Or is it just something you can't touch?

So if I just get a cat back exhaust and bolt it to the downpipe I will be fine right?

hahah yeah, I am going to go elsewhere for getting my equipment, but they might have just miss interpreted my question. I'm not sure. It was probably me though, because it is their ONLY job to answer questions that pertain to this stuff.
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Old 05-31-2010, 12:50 AM   #21
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IM not saying that it will fail i am saying it is not recommended and it could cause damage to run the open downpipe with the stg1 map because it is not tuned for the open downpipe. Do a little research and you will find that you should not run a open downpipe with a stg1 map. Thats why they have the stg2 map that uses the open downpipe and uppipe because the map has been tuned for it. I have been road tuning for several years and I never tell anyone to run the stg1 map from cobb or xpt or any tune for that matter with an open downpipe without tuning the car correctly for it. If you are going to run the stg1 map with the open downpipe I would recommed you do some data logging and see what it is doing or just go ahead and run the stg2 since you have the parts. Just trying to help not start an argument...
I'm sorry, I wasn't meaning to sound like a prick, but my gf read my post and was like: "Tom, you're typing like an ass" haha sorry man.

Anyway, I think the gentleman above said it clearly as well as your description. I have decided to not run with an open downpipe.
Is there a way to use an open downpipe and a cat back exhaust and go get a protune? Could that work. The only thing I have is the AP, nothing else and besides, the turbo back exhaust, I don't think passes many smog tests. But, I'm not sure about that.

So can you give me set up that you like. That would be extremely helpful.
I am a fan of the invidia G200 cat back exhaust. I'm not sure why, just am. the sound is awesome. And a V3 down pipe makes it even better.
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Old 05-31-2010, 09:28 AM   #22
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Never knew that. Thanks man, well is there a way on the AP to lower the boost? Or is it just something you can't touch?

So if I just get a cat back exhaust and bolt it to the downpipe I will be fine right?
The only way to lower the boost (the right way) is to get a custom tune. If you are going to run a downpipe then run the stage2 tune. Your not making alot of sense here. Adding a DP is for increasing the performance of the vehicle,but yet you don't want to run the stage 2 tune and you want to lower the boost. Follow the map notes. Your making this way more complicated than it has to be. Maybe just run the stage 1 (with a stock car) and see if you like it.
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Old 05-31-2010, 10:12 AM   #23
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Well said Quazi.....
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Old 05-31-2010, 04:40 PM   #24
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The only way to lower the boost (the right way) is to get a custom tune. If you are going to run a downpipe then run the stage2 tune. Your not making alot of sense here. Adding a DP is for increasing the performance of the vehicle,but yet you don't want to run the stage 2 tune and you want to lower the boost. Follow the map notes. Your making this way more complicated than it has to be. Maybe just run the stage 1 (with a stock car) and see if you like it.
No, no. What I mean is this:

I do not want to spend a lot of money, for something I do not need (stage II). I really like the invidia G200, I want to buy it. If I got that I'd be fine; I understand that. But if I purchase a bell mouth open down pipe it will mess with my engine too much with the stage I because it is meant for a more restrictive OEM down pipe.

I understand what is going on here. I just do not want to spend all that money on something I do not need that much. Like a turbo back exhaust and open down pipe. If I go stage II I will buy it, but most likely I wont. Unless I am in need of more power and get bored with stage I.
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:35 PM   #25
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The biggest difference between a stage 1 and stage 2 map from Cobb is the boost targets. The fuel targets are very similar (they are very close to stock), while the ignition is slightly more aggressive.
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