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Old 06-18-2010, 06:40 PM   #1
gpshumway
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Default Honda to Fuse S2000 and Beat?

Mid engined S2k? Woot!

From Motor Trend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor Trend
Honda to Fuse S2000 and Beat Into One
Small, Rear-Drive, Mid-Engine Roadster on the Drawing Board
June 17, 2010
/ By Peter Lyon

The Honda S2000 was recently killed and the Honda Beat 660cc minicar of 1991 all but forgotten, but in a strange comeback story, they both may live again -- fused into the one car. We have just caught word from a source close to Honda that the company is busy at work 'molding' the two together in a radical new project that is taking shape inside the halls of Tochigi's R&D Centre just north of Tokyo. Dropped onto a modified Fit (Jazz) platform, the new roadster will apparently employ a rear mid-engined layout. An illustration of what the new car could become is depicted.

It's an intriguing new sports car plan from a company that doesn't really have much left in that genre short of the Civic Si and the hybrid CR-Z (the Civic Type R will cease production in August). We did some background research and discovered that Honda has lodged a patent pending in Japan to build a roadster using a subframe and parts from current cars but adding technology to lower curb weight and reduce production costs. The patent actually refers to the "engine being fitted to a center frame" which translates from Japanese to mid-engined and rear-wheel drive. So it will no doubt be lightweight and have good front-rear weight distribution at the same time.

But whether that "mid-engine" refers to a hybrid, fully electric or fuel cell is still unclear. In recent years, Honda has dabbled in all three alternative forms of propulsion, so it's anyone's guess which way they will lean. It's unlikely the automaker will build the car with a gasoline engine option as that would restrict its international application. And if there's anything the company wants, it's to make this car a global success. Don't expect to see this car on the road before 2014.
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Old 06-18-2010, 06:45 PM   #2
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Mid-engined compact and global success?



Honda is smoking some good stuff these days.
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:00 PM   #3
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*crosses fingers* Please, Honduh, you're overdue for a comeback. I grew up during your heyday of providing the most fun and practicality for the money, but you've become anemic in your performance (Si), lagging in your efficiency (Insight? Hell, CR-Z? REALLY???), and just plain uninspiring with your offerings. At least your quality and reliability remains top-tier, but there's more to motoring than dash-plastic gaps and 400,000 mile drivetrains. I'll take 200,000 miles of fun and happy driving memories over 400k of...commuting.
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Old 06-18-2010, 07:27 PM   #4
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I bet it's gonna be mid-engined...FWD
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Old 06-18-2010, 08:05 PM   #5
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Please this:



and not this:

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Old 06-19-2010, 12:17 AM   #6
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My parents wanted to buy me a "practical car during my high school ara. We went to the Honda dealer and my mom really liked the Civic Si.....until we drove it. 8000rpm and 16 years old just wasn't a good combo. She was screaming like a little girl. I ended up with a Plymouth Valarie. Sure it had 4 different colored doors, but that slant 6 was one tough motor! Honda had some cool stuff back then.
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Old 06-19-2010, 12:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
We have just caught word from a source close to Honda
So they're not even claiming a source in Honda.

This will never happen.
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:25 PM   #8
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A whip me SY2K'ER
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Old 06-19-2010, 07:45 PM   #9
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Nothing here. I"ll be surprised if the Si lives on at this point.......
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Old 06-19-2010, 08:13 PM   #10
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Who needs the Si when we've got the CR-Z!!!!
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Old 06-20-2010, 12:25 AM   #11
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S2000 at a Beat price would be win. Knowing Honda these days, I'm not expecting much.
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Old 06-20-2010, 01:54 AM   #12
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Too bad if its Beat sized it won't be coming over to our shores. I wonder if it's going to compete against the Miata ?
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Old 06-21-2010, 11:42 AM   #13
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As an 09 Fit owner (which I truly love), I am frankly not impressed with some of Honda's latest offerings like the atrocious Crosstour or the silly Acura ZDX etc....while killing products like the S2000 and the fledgeling NSX program. I am definitely not waiting with bated breath for the above product to actually become a production car.
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Old 01-21-2015, 03:25 PM   #14
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4.5 years for thread necromancy...

Apparently the S660 roadster is going on sale in Japan next year, with noises made about a bigger engined wider fendered version for export.

DOOOOAAAATTT, Honda! NSX Schmenesex.

Quote:
Honda’s new S660 roadster is a pint-size, mid-engine two-seater that was recently unveiled at the Tokyo Auto Salon. Some will recognize the formula as that of the Honda Beat roadster from the 1990s. That model was never sold in North America, but with the automaker’s staid U.S. lineup in need of some excitement, could its successor play in America?
We’re told the S660 will land in showrooms in its home market by midyear. Japanese buyers will find a rear-wheel-drive sportster powered by a turbocharged 660-cc gasoline engine generating upwards of 64 horsepower, and they’ll have a choice of a six-speed manual or a CVT gearbox, the latter with shift paddles. That doesn’t sound like much, but when you’re talking about a car that weighs well less than 2000 pounds, 64 horsepower takes on a whole new meaning.

In addition to the 64-hp version of the Japan-spec S660, our sources have revealed that Honda R&D is currently testing an export model—rumored to be called the S1000—that will be fitted with a more powerful, 1.0-liter turbocharged engine, wider body panels, and bigger wheels. We tested just such an engine in a Civic prototype last year, and it showed great promise and delivered more than 140 horsepower.

And Honda has one further option. Remember the electric EV-STER concept that debuted at the 2011 Tokyo show? Strangely, or maybe not so, that car strongly resembled the S660.

Awesome Honda S600 Kei Car Will Reach Production!
Honda EV-STER Small Sports Car Concept
Honda Mulling S2000 Replacement that Would Be Nothing Like the Original

So Honda may have built the S660 to accommodate not just a small gasoline engine, but also allowed for an EV powertrain to be dropped straight into its engine bay, thus creating a small electric city sports-commuter.

Expect the S1000 to emerge in 2016 and an EV version to arrive a year later. We can only hope that one, or both, will make it to export markets such as the United States.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/will-ho...peat-the-beat/
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Old 01-21-2015, 03:45 PM   #15
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If only there was a small 2 door moderately powered RWD car already with a small engine...
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Old 01-21-2015, 03:52 PM   #16
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mid-engine uber alles
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Old 01-21-2015, 04:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
If only there was a small 2 door moderately powered RWD car already with a small engine...
Which mid-engine RWD small engine car are you referring to? Come on, be explicit.
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Old 01-21-2015, 04:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
Which mid-engine RWD small engine car are you referring to? Come on, be explicit.
Porsche Boxster?

Compared to Scrappys King Ranch, every engine is a small engine
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Old 01-21-2015, 05:11 PM   #19
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I missed the mid engined part. I assumed S2000 replacement to be the S1000 they were talking about. My mistake.

But honestly, who cares if it is mid engined. What does that realistically do for you on the street except give you no trunk space in front or in back. FR usually has a generous hatch area. Mid engine is great for supercars, but for a daily driver, I have a feeling it would not be that great. The MR2 was pretty cool, but it was finally scrapped.

We will see.

and I only have a 3.5 liter in the KR. A Camry has a larger engine!
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Old 01-21-2015, 05:13 PM   #20
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Not quite the return of the S600 I was expecting





Maybe the coupe will return.

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Old 01-21-2015, 06:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I missed the mid engined part. I assumed S2000 replacement to be the S1000 they were talking about. My mistake.

But honestly, who cares if it is mid engined. What does that realistically do for you on the street except give you no trunk space in front or in back. FR usually has a generous hatch area. Mid engine is great for supercars, but for a daily driver, I have a feeling it would not be that great. The MR2 was pretty cool, but it was finally scrapped.

We will see.

and I only have a 3.5 liter in the KR. A Camry has a larger engine!
Mid engine placement allows better handling characteristics. I own a stock 93 mr2 turbo on original 23 yr old struts and springs, And I also own a 96 Miata M on an upgraded NB supsension with konis and stock NB springs.

After 5 years of owning both cars I would say that they are dead even in cornering ability. Considering the the mr2 is on an inferior macpherson suspension with 23 yr old struts and springs is as good as a miata with double wishbone suspension and has upgaded to NB specs with konis, I would have to say that mid engine cars are superior.

MR cars are also much cheaper to produce than FR for a company that does mostly (only?) FF layouts. The MR2 is a parts bin car. The mk2 uses a camry motor and tranny for the NA, and a Celica engine and camry tranny for the turbo.
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Old 01-21-2015, 06:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I missed the mid engined part. I assumed S2000 replacement to be the S1000 they were talking about. My mistake.

But honestly, who cares if it is mid engined. What does that realistically do for you on the street except give you no trunk space in front or in back. FR usually has a generous hatch area. Mid engine is great for supercars, but for a daily driver, I have a feeling it would not be that great. The MR2 was pretty cool, but it was finally scrapped.

We will see.

and I only have a 3.5 liter in the KR. A Camry has a larger engine!
You got the EcoBoost KR?

Fancy.
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:07 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I missed the mid engined part. I assumed S2000 replacement to be the S1000 they were talking about. My mistake.

But honestly, who cares if it is mid engined. What does that realistically do for you on the street except give you no trunk space in front or in back. FR usually has a generous hatch area. Mid engine is great for supercars, but for a daily driver, I have a feeling it would not be that great. The MR2 was pretty cool, but it was finally scrapped.
I care if it's mid-engine. If you've never driven a proper small mid-engine sports car, find a friend with an Elise, Boxter, or a well maintained MR2 and take it on a twisty road. There's just something magical about them.

I never really understood why the original S2K wasn't mid engine. Honda is famous for their flexible production lines which can build everything from a Civic to an RL without switchover costs, transverse drivetrains are integral to that, and it's basically why the Acuras are transverse when most luxury cars are longitudinal. The S2k was built on a special small-volume production line in Japan rather than in Ohio, but with a transverse-mid arrangement they could presumably run them down any production line, including the new Mexican one which makes the Fit. It may have to move backwards, but so what.

Toyota scrapped the MR2 for the same stupid bean-counter reasons they scrapped the Supra and later the Celica. Apparently the bean counters didn't know how to calculate the negative effects of having an average buyer in their mid 50s. They've been scrambling to remedy the mistake ever since, first with Scion, now with their latest stying forays under Akio Toyoda.

Oh, and the second-gen MR2 had room for two bags of golf clubs in the trunk and a little bit more in the frunk. With the advent of runflat tires, a new MR2 would have even more cargo space. The third-gen car with no luggage space at all was just idiotic, no wonder it didn't sell. Even a sports car has to hold enough luggage for a weekend getaway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doobie Scoo View Post
Mid engine placement allows better handling characteristics. I own a stock 93 mr2 turbo on original 23 yr old struts and springs, And I also own a 96 Miata M on an upgraded NB supsension with konis and stock NB springs.

After 5 years of owning both cars I would say that they are dead even in cornering ability. Considering the the mr2 is on an inferior macpherson suspension with 23 yr old struts and springs is as good as a miata with double wishbone suspension and has upgaded to NB specs with konis, I would have to say that mid engine cars are superior.

MR cars are also much cheaper to produce than FR for a company that does mostly (only?) FF layouts. The MR2 is a parts bin car. The mk2 uses a camry motor and tranny for the NA, and a Celica engine and camry tranny for the turbo.
Exactly. The 140hp speculated in the article would be plenty in a sub 2,000 pound car. Straight line speed be damned, give me the mid-engine handling! It's been missing in an affordable car since Toyota killed the MR2.
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:39 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
Exactly. The 140hp speculated in the article would be plenty in a sub 2,000 pound car. Straight line speed be damned, give me the mid-engine handling! It's been missing in an affordable car since Toyota killed the MR2.
I'm going to have to disagree on the power comment. I love my miata. I'd argue the most favorite car I've owned. The one compliant I have is the power. I'd call it adequate at best. A sports car should have at least 1bhp:10lbs to be considered "plenty."

With that said, I hope Honda brings it here anyway...
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Old 01-22-2015, 09:49 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefoos View Post
I'm going to have to disagree on the power comment. I love my miata. I'd argue the most favorite car I've owned. The one compliant I have is the power. I'd call it adequate at best. A sports car should have at least 1bhp:10lbs to be considered "plenty."

With that said, I hope Honda brings it here anyway...
So you're saying cars like the S2000, the RX8, WRX, etc... don't have "plenty"?

You're a power hungry fool if that's what you think. This day and age, you need to be north of 300hp to match your requirement for "plenty" because cars just aren't light enough. You have to have 300hp+ to make up for the heft of cars these days.

Adding lightness makes up in spades over the current heavier weight trends.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/02/b...atios-feature/

All the cars under your 1:10 are 3600+ heavy pigs of cars.

--kC
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