Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday August 1, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Subaru Conversions

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-20-2010, 03:14 PM   #1
domestic_abuser
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126696
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: las vegas
Vehicle:
2002 Fatbody bugeye
03 R1 09 Raptor 700R

Default The EJ25 swap guide!

I've seen a ton of swap questions lately, more than needed that's for sure. Most of them contain garbage information that isn't even half true. Hopefully this post will get a sticky, something this forum has needed for years and considering Element tuning has had this guide forever I'm surprised to see that it hasn't been used as often as it should.

http://elementtuning.com/technical/ej25_install.htm

So anyone who has swapped, or is currently swapping let post all of our questions and answers here for now on. If you don't know what you're talking about, or think you know but aren't really sure lets keep your posting of swap details to a minimum or not at all. Be aware that this isn't going to help guys swapping a complete STi harness, motor, etc. However there is a good write up somewhere that I'll dig up asap.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...+sti+swap+into

This is wrinkleboi's swap thread, which is possibly one of the best documented swaps I've seen on NASIOC. If you're going all out read this guys thread! Please note that I was able to SEARCH and find the thread I was looking for and there isn't even a time noted for editing my own thread.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
domestic_abuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2010, 04:56 PM   #2
domestic_abuser
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126696
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: las vegas
Vehicle:
2002 Fatbody bugeye
03 R1 09 Raptor 700R

Default

I received a question regarding the head differences between the EJ255/7 so I'm going to try and elaborate on the difference, but first I'm going to list the vehicles that carry the EJ255/7 blocks.

All 04+ STi's come with EJ257's
I'm not saying that all are the same, I'm currently not going to list the differences as I'm not 100% positive of them all off the top of my head. That can be searched to figure out which one you would like for your swap.

06+ WRX EJ255
04/07+ LGT EJ255
05/06 LGT EJ255 (yet this block is identical to that of the STi of the same year. The cause for this is unknown to the general public, but can be confirmed via part numbers)
04+ FXT EJ255
04/05 Baja Turbo EJ255

All EJ255 blocks have different heads than that of the STi. There are other differences as well to include the pistons. As of right now I'm not going to go into that and I'm just going to cover the heads. The EJ255's heads smaller combustion chamber ports and smaller intake ports to my knowledge. This causes the block to have a slightly higher compression than the EJ257's and actually helps to increase spool time.

I'm currently trying to dig up an old thread made by vendor IA Performance to show this. I believe that this is something that you should know before purchasing a motor to do your swap. Now if you already bought your engine this is just a good bit of info to have. In the thread they actually choose the EJ255 over the EJ257 for stage 2 mods. This is where they actually stop and no further testing went on to my knowledge.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=ej255+dyno

This thread was started by Vendor Maxwell Power (Dom as some know). He explains that the cams are exactly the same and he is followed by Jeff Sponaugle with part numbers confirming him. Both are long time suby guys and a ton can be learned from reading their post and threads. You'll find me referring back to both of them if this thread stays alive.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ej255+vs+ej257

Last edited by domestic_abuser; 06-20-2010 at 06:01 PM. Reason: new threads added
domestic_abuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2010, 05:10 PM   #3
domestic_abuser
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126696
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: las vegas
Vehicle:
2002 Fatbody bugeye
03 R1 09 Raptor 700R

Default

I'm going to use this post to show the differences in the EJ255/7 blocks. I'm going to do this by referencing different threads that have actual part numbers, this way you can't argue with me about how I'm wrong...like half of Nasioc swappers will try to do anyways.

If you skip straight to post #8 (my post) I post 2 threads, one of which references part numbers and the other is just a good read about revving the EJ25x past 7500. It's a bit long, but very interesting. If you can get past all the BS you'll see that sponaugle post in this thread as well with a bit of info of his own. He confirms that the LGT EJ255 for 05/06 are identical to that of the STi for the same year. Keep this in mind swappers if you want an STi shortblock with possibly a smaller price tag.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ej255+vs+ej257

Last edited by domestic_abuser; 06-20-2010 at 05:40 PM.
domestic_abuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2010, 11:09 PM   #4
JusSoSloW
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 184184
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default

Sticky Please
JusSoSloW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2010, 04:03 AM   #5
domestic_abuser
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126696
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: las vegas
Vehicle:
2002 Fatbody bugeye
03 R1 09 Raptor 700R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JusSoSloW View Post
Sticky Please
Glad you liked it, if I come across any more info I'll post it up.
domestic_abuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2010, 01:05 PM   #6
Sir Mangina III
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 129260
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topanga, CA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
PSM

Default

This is a great idea and has been needed for a long time! I'll post a question that has been on my mind as I do research for a swap. I'll toss out a question:

So if I have a 2002 WRX and want to go with a swap with a minimal amount of wiring, am I correct in my understanding that if I get a motor out of a 2004 STI that I can drop it in without having to worry about the immobilizers as long as I am running with the original WRX wiring and ECU? Would I still be able to plug into the ECU to diagnose an engine problem? I know that I won't have a functioning AVCS and will need a Gruppe-s cam position sensor but this seems to be the most straight forward route.
Sir Mangina III is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2010, 02:53 AM   #7
domestic_abuser
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126696
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: las vegas
Vehicle:
2002 Fatbody bugeye
03 R1 09 Raptor 700R

Default

First off are you going to use the long block or the short block? I assume by the AVCS question that you are using the longblock. In this case you yes the block with drop right in. You will have to swap a couple sensors, like the coolant sensor over from your wrx. You will not need to use the immobilizer since you will be using your stock ECU and not the STi's. You will not need the Gruppe-s cam position sensor since the block is already tapped for the ver.7 cam sensor.

This is strictly my opinion so take it how you want. AVCS is a good thing, but far from necessary. Nearly all high power cars run non-avcs cams due to being able to run more power up top. Sure they do good points, but it depends on what your goals are.

Did I answer your questions?
domestic_abuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2010, 11:34 AM   #8
Sir Mangina III
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 129260
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Topanga, CA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
PSM

Default

Yes, quite well. Thank you. Do you happen to know where I can get the information on which sensors I need to swap over or is it apparent when I have both engines out sitting next to each other? It seems like if you do the long block and are willing to live with out the AVCS that this swap is extremely straight forward and not as involved as I thought it would be.
Sir Mangina III is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2010, 01:22 PM   #9
domestic_abuser
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126696
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: las vegas
Vehicle:
2002 Fatbody bugeye
03 R1 09 Raptor 700R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Mangina III View Post
Yes, quite well. Thank you. Do you happen to know where I can get the information on which sensors I need to swap over or is it apparent when I have both engines out sitting next to each other? It seems like if you do the long block and are willing to live with out the AVCS that this swap is extremely straight forward and not as involved as I thought it would be.
You are correct, and sensor wise I think that the coolant sensor is the only one I had to swap besides the cam sensor.

Pretty much the old comes out and the new goes in. The biggest part is disconnecting the 20 some odd connectors the factory motor has.
domestic_abuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 08:47 AM   #10
BMXspears
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 79339
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
2002 EJ257 swap WRX
Midnight Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by domestic_abuser View Post
I've seen a ton of swap questions lately, more than needed that's for sure. Most of them contain garbage information that isn't even half true. Hopefully this post will get a sticky, something this forum has needed for years and considering Element tuning has had this guide forever I'm surprised to see that it hasn't been used as often as it should.

http://elementtuning.com/technical/ej25_install.htm

So anyone who has swapped, or is currently swapping let post all of our questions and answers here for now on. If you don't know what you're talking about, or think you know but aren't really sure lets keep your posting of swap details to a minimum or not at all. Be aware that this isn't going to help guys swapping a complete STi harness, motor, etc. However there is a good write up somewhere that I'll dig up asap.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...+sti+swap+into

This is wrinkleboi's swap thread, which is possibly one of the best documented swaps I've seen on NASIOC. If you're going all out read this guys thread! Please note that I was able to SEARCH and find the thread I was looking for and there isn't even a time noted for editing my own thread.
Just an FYI. Wrinkleboi's thread is pretty useless unless you are planning on converting your WHOLE car to STI. Meaning all interior, radiator fans, all the stuff in the doors, etc. I'm pretty sure he was working with a complete wrecked STi.

I just got done swapping an 06 EJ257 into my 02 wrx. I did the swap to maintain avcs so I had to rewire the whole car. I used 04 wiring to maintain at least some plug locations. Took almost 2 months on nights and weekends.

Things I had to rewire or change plugs on: radiator fans, fog lights, headlights, turn signals, side markers, windshield wiper motor, seat belt tensioners, rear door harness, rear defroster, entire fuel tank harness (unless you get STi tank and fuel tank harness(NOT PART OF REAR HARNESS)), and basically all plugs on transmission if you keep your stock one.

Honestly, I don't think I found one useful tip on rewiring anything on the forum. I basically learned how to read wiring diagrams and figured it out myself. Most people are overly concerned with immobilizers, when that is the least of your worries.
BMXspears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 10:24 AM   #11
domestic_abuser
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126696
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: las vegas
Vehicle:
2002 Fatbody bugeye
03 R1 09 Raptor 700R

Default

Well I guess as for as good a swapper you are, you aren't a very good reader. Look at the last paragraph again.

Most guys that post here want a quick swap and aren't willing to spend 2 months rewiring there entire car just to have some sort of variable valve timing. It would have been nice however for you to document and share your swap.

As far as interior goes...well I had a 04 STi interior in my 02 in 05 and everything bolts right up. There really isn't any work in it, if it's an 05+ door panel setup you have to retab them.
domestic_abuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2010, 11:30 AM   #12
BMXspears
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 79339
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
2002 EJ257 swap WRX
Midnight Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by domestic_abuser View Post
Well I guess as for as good a swapper you are, you aren't a very good reader. Look at the last paragraph again.

Most guys that post here want a quick swap and aren't willing to spend 2 months rewiring there entire car just to have some sort of variable valve timing. It would have been nice however for you to document and share your swap.

As far as interior goes...well I had a 04 STi interior in my 02 in 05 and everything bolts right up. There really isn't any work in it, if it's an 05+ door panel setup you have to retab them.

I wasn't trying to be hostile or anything.

There are more benefits to swapping out the wiring than avcs, like DBW throttle and a more advanced ECU. And if I'm going to swap an STi motor into my car (which will be in there for years), I want to do it right.

I used 04 STi wiring in my 02 wrx, and the rear door plugs do not plug right in. The reason yours probably worked is you had STi door cords.
BMXspears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2010, 12:50 PM   #13
domestic_abuser
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126696
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: las vegas
Vehicle:
2002 Fatbody bugeye
03 R1 09 Raptor 700R

Default

I am not trying to be hostile with you, in fact I was being serious when I said that it's to bad you didn't document your swap. I agree having AVCS might be good for stage 2 or 3 but after that I wouldn't use it myself. When I first was doing my swap I very much wanted it, but found out in big power applications it isn't used. In my case I plan on aiming for 600whp one day, but clearly not tomorrow. I am unsure of the benefits of DBW as I haven't heard to many good things about it. I know quite a few aftermarket intake manifold makers don't offer them DBW. I agree the STi ecu is good for a stock unit, but the 02/03 units aren't bad themselves. In fact they are known to be better then the 04/05 units (I am unsure of 06+ wrx ecus.)

Last edited by domestic_abuser; 07-03-2010 at 12:55 PM.
domestic_abuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2010, 03:55 AM   #14
b3nj4m1n
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 184296
Join Date: Jul 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2003 wrx
wrb

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMXspears View Post
Just an FYI. Wrinkleboi's thread is pretty useless unless you are planning on converting your WHOLE car to STI. Meaning all interior, radiator fans, all the stuff in the doors, etc. I'm pretty sure he was working with a complete wrecked STi.

I just got done swapping an 06 EJ257 into my 02 wrx. I did the swap to maintain avcs so I had to rewire the whole car. I used 04 wiring to maintain at least some plug locations. Took almost 2 months on nights and weekends.

Things I had to rewire or change plugs on: radiator fans, fog lights, headlights, turn signals, side markers, windshield wiper motor, seat belt tensioners, rear door harness, rear defroster, entire fuel tank harness (unless you get STi tank and fuel tank harness(NOT PART OF REAR HARNESS)), and basically all plugs on transmission if you keep your stock one.

Honestly, I don't think I found one useful tip on rewiring anything on the forum. I basically learned how to read wiring diagrams and figured it out myself. Most people are overly concerned with immobilizers, when that is the least of your worries.


Is there anything else you had to rewire/change plugs on. I mean anything like even little tiny details if you can remember. I am currently mid swap in swapping an 05 sti EJ257 and 6 speed into my 03 wrx and I am currently sorting out the wiring. I have ALL the wiring from the 05 sti headlight to taillight (or at least 98% of it) and I have the wiring diagrams for an 02 wrx and 04 sti (I know they are not exactly the same but they are very close). I plan on swapping it all into the car but I am currently looking to see what needs to be rewired. Im pretty sure I could figure it all out but a list of things to rewire would help. Thanks
b3nj4m1n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2010, 07:18 PM   #15
BMXspears
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 79339
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
2002 EJ257 swap WRX
Midnight Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by b3nj4m1n View Post
Is there anything else you had to rewire/change plugs on. I mean anything like even little tiny details if you can remember. I am currently mid swap in swapping an 05 sti EJ257 and 6 speed into my 03 wrx and I am currently sorting out the wiring. I have ALL the wiring from the 05 sti headlight to taillight (or at least 98% of it) and I have the wiring diagrams for an 02 wrx and 04 sti (I know they are not exactly the same but they are very close). I plan on swapping it all into the car but I am currently looking to see what needs to be rewired. Im pretty sure I could figure it all out but a list of things to rewire would help. Thanks
I think i mentioned everything, but here's a little more detail:

Headlights on STi use different plugs and don't have any daytime running light stuff. They also have an HID relay, while the wrx has a highbeam relay. I still have not figured out exactly how to wire it to work. Main thing to take away from it is that the sti has four plugs per headlight, while the wrx has two.

You have to wire in side markers, the wires are red with yellow stripe, you can just splice them into the turn signal wires. Comparing the diagram will show this.

Turn signal plugs are different, also you can't test them if you don't have the hazard button plugged in, it completes the circuit. learned this the hard way.

Fog lights plugs are different, just cut off your wrx ones and splice them on. All other wiring is actually already installed in the sti harness, except the button to turn them on.

Radiator fan plugs are diff. Some just splice but I just traced them back to relay block and replaced them there which is basically factory. also, sti fan plugs have two grounds, but wrx ones only have one, but doesn't matter.

Windshield wiper motor plug has wires oriented differently in plugs. The weak just replace the motor. You could just repin the plug, or cut it off and use the wrx plug (what I did).

Rear doors may work on your car but mine were two separate plugs, while the sti harness had only one. I just cut off the wrx plugs and spliced them into sti harness. SAME FOR GAS TANK.

Thats all I feel like typing right now. If I think of anything else, i'll post later. Or just pm me.
BMXspears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 05:55 AM   #16
93ImprezaSFI
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 249448
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fresno CA
Vehicle:
1993 Impreza
White

Default

I noticed that most of the swaps are from year 2000 and up wrx motors, I would like to upgrade my 93 1.8L, I was told in another thread to look in here and that a NA EJ25 would be the easiest conversion for me. Do you guys have any input on this conversion? because I know absolutely nothing about these cars, I just bought my car a couple of weeks ago.
93ImprezaSFI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2010, 11:08 PM   #17
domestic_abuser
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126696
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: las vegas
Vehicle:
2002 Fatbody bugeye
03 R1 09 Raptor 700R

Default

Good info BMXspears, and 93ImprezaSFI I'm not really knowledgeable in the swap area that you're interested but I do know there are many NA 2.5L motors so you might want to search a bit to find what you really want. There are many 1.8L's running STi motors out there though.
domestic_abuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2010, 02:33 AM   #18
b3nj4m1n
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 184296
Join Date: Jul 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
2003 wrx
wrb

Default

BMXspears thanks a lot... Ill add to this thread if I notice anything else while im doing it
b3nj4m1n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2010, 08:37 PM   #19
domestic_abuser
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126696
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: las vegas
Vehicle:
2002 Fatbody bugeye
03 R1 09 Raptor 700R

Default

Make sure to take some pics to document the AVCS part if you follow through on it. That would help plenty of people out there.
domestic_abuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2010, 11:01 PM   #20
mygreatgc8
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 230513
Join Date: Nov 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Warrenton, Va
Vehicle:
2001 rs/wrx/sti swap
black

Default

i have an 01 rs with a 06wrx swap, will the cxracing intercooler from a 06 wrx in a 01 rs engine bay?
mygreatgc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 02:21 AM   #21
domestic_abuser
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126696
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: las vegas
Vehicle:
2002 Fatbody bugeye
03 R1 09 Raptor 700R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mygreatgc8 View Post
i have an 01 rs with a 06wrx swap, will the cxracing intercooler from a 06 wrx in a 01 rs engine bay?
Intercooler fitment doesn't have anything to do with the motor swap, it's more or less what chassis of car you have. I'd buy one for a GC to be sure.
domestic_abuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 06:09 PM   #22
mygreatgc8
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 230513
Join Date: Nov 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Warrenton, Va
Vehicle:
2001 rs/wrx/sti swap
black

Default

it has a 04 sti ecu/wiring on the 06 motor, with a ver 1 sti trans, i bought n access port and getting it protuned. i have a full exhaust(header upipe down pipe and exhaust all with out a catalitic converter) six puck clutch hks intake pre/post MAF , sti manifold,.. what should i see with those upgrades, the next step up for me is a twin scroll and injectors or vf39 and fmic
mygreatgc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 09:25 PM   #23
mcmahonrally
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 161186
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: laguna hills ,ca
Default

Great info
mcmahonrally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2010, 03:43 PM   #24
mygreatgc8
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 230513
Join Date: Nov 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Warrenton, Va
Vehicle:
2001 rs/wrx/sti swap
black

Default

the intercooler work, a tight fit, and i had to customize some hoses and bolts but it worked
mygreatgc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2010, 10:41 AM   #25
domestic_abuser
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 126696
Join Date: Sep 2006
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: las vegas
Vehicle:
2002 Fatbody bugeye
03 R1 09 Raptor 700R

Default

^Thanks for sharing that for other potential swappers!
domestic_abuser is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What all has the EJ25, and what is needed for my swap? Karas Newbies & FAQs 2 10-04-2009 11:31 PM
99 ej25 swapped with 05 ej25 aaronthehic Subaru Conversions 0 08-23-2009 06:33 PM
tranny swap guide sk84fun21 Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline 4 03-10-2008 10:10 PM
EJ25 to EJ25 swap, first time, good tips and tricks to know? Patrick Olsen Subaru Conversions 8 11-27-2006 10:14 PM
Trunk Lid Swapping Guide? f4phantomii Interior & Exterior Modification 5 04-06-2004 07:52 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.