Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday July 26, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-09-2002, 01:48 PM   #1
aek
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13888
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Formosa Taiwan
Vehicle:
2002 2.5 RS Black
:( sold ( now GC8 )

Default Auto WRX vs Manual WRX

Anyone here owns a auto WRX ?

I'm curious how different between these two.

Furthermore, if the WRX is tuned to have 300+ HP, will a auto WRX handles big power better ?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
aek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2002, 01:52 PM   #2
BADWRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3792
Join Date: Jan 2001
Vehicle:
2002 6MT almost GDB

Default

Well, If you want to know about big power from an auto WRX, then you should contact big time i-clubber Jorge up in Chi-town "RiftsWRX".

I can tell you that you are going to be WAY slower with an auto pushing the same HP BUT you are going to have a more reliable transmission.

Andy
BADWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2002, 01:54 PM   #3
jmott
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6713
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston TX USA
Vehicle:
2007 Prius
brown

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by BADWRX
Well, If you want to know about big power from an auto WRX, then you should contact big time i-clubber Jorge up in Chi-town "RiftsWRX".

I can tell you that you are going to be WAY slower with an auto pushing the same HP BUT you are going to have a more reliable transmission.

Andy
autos have been blown up too
jmott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2002, 04:49 PM   #4
IgotWRXed
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 14868
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: manhattan beach, ca
Vehicle:
2002 wrx

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by jmott


autos have been blown up too
yes but it wasnt from just bolting on a turbo and some pipes.

it really boils down to what you want to do. the 4eat in stock form is still a really quick car, i love it. it still is faster than the majority of the cars out there, 90+%. with some simple no big deal stuff(up,dp,boostcontroller, etc.) , it can be made quicker. all the while not worrying about replacing a clutch or that 1-2nd gear that soa wont cover. if you are all about the 1/4 mile, and want your wrx to be an all out performer, i would say go ahead with the 5spd. 4eat is a great daily driver considering most people dont live at the track, and makes day to day very fun/easy, and when u got the itch, its only a throttle blip away.

i chose a 4eat for a number of reasons, but the deciding factor was my parents but theres no way in hell im complaining
IgotWRXed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2002, 09:40 PM   #5
Torch
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10172
Join Date: Sep 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by jmott
autos have been blown up too
Torch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 12:15 AM   #6
Diranged
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18722
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Redwood City, Cali
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
World Rally Blue Pearl

Default

There is one huge problem with autos -- turbo lag! I had an auto Eclipse GS-T and the reason I sold it was because it was an auto and driving around town with turbo lag sucks..

Advantages with an auto:
1) As long as your not drag racing, they are usually more reliable
2) You can let anyone drive the car and not worry as much
3) Great for driving around town and in traffic -- more relaxing

Problems with an auto:
1) Definatly not as fast
2) Boost lag feels MUCH longer in an auto than a manual
3) Not as fun to drive around..
4) A little harder to control sliding the rear end out in a turn if you want to

For me, I had to get a 5-speed.. but it is all dependent on waht you want to do..

--Matt
Diranged is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 02:52 AM   #7
V6TurboTA
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 9090
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: < of Boston
Vehicle:
09 Forester Gump
02WRX->04STi->09Gump

Default

I say a basicly stock auto wrx blow the tranny.
It was somewhere around $3k for the rebuild.

I know I bought a WRX for the the soul reason to have an EXCITING car, not a relaxing one.

If you want a really quick car, get a stick.
If you want a relaxing car, get an auto.

The stick and the manual will both last forever if you dont abuse them.
If you want you car to really perform, you gotta be prepared to rebuild/replace stuff. Thats just the way things go.

If your not prepared to tow your car home and fix it, you shouldnt be at the track.

~v6

Last edited by V6TurboTA; 06-10-2002 at 03:00 AM.
V6TurboTA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 06:42 AM   #8
mitch808
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10228
Join Date: Sep 2001
Vehicle:
2002 Subaru WRX

Default

No matter how big your turbo, the amount of bolt-ons you get, or the amount of boost you run... Your still limited by your tranny in an auto box. An upgraded torque convertor, and possibly some valve changes to modify shifting will be needed to even come close to competing with a 5spd on the strip.
mitch808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 12:43 PM   #9
aek
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13888
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Formosa Taiwan
Vehicle:
2002 2.5 RS Black
:( sold ( now GC8 )

Default

I like the relax of auto since I live in the city but sometimes I wish the fun with manual...

I've seen there's manual shift auto transmission in Japan market. Anyone familiar with this ?
aek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 12:52 PM   #10
eric m.
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 14872
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: kalispell, mt
Vehicle:
06 legacy GT black
accessport stage II.

Default

it's crazy to get a car like the wrx and get an auto trans, unless you don't care about performance. but then, why would you be in this forum?

people like to use that excuse about driving in heavy traffic, but i drive in very heavy traffic everyday, and it's not a big deal at all. i think it's easier, because i can coast in my gear and not have to brake all the time like all the auto cars. the only thing i wouldn't recommend if you have a manual and drive in heavy traffic a lot is a high performance clutch ,because it's harder to slip, and a flywheel, because you lose engine braking capability.

it just seems odd to build up a car to go fast, but it's an automatic. no matter what the argument is, you will gain time on the 1/4 mile over a manual car. oh, and don't ever use the excuse that you don't know how to drive a stick shift car...it takes a few minutes to learn. have fun!
eric m. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 01:49 PM   #11
bluesubie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 767
Join Date: Jan 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: N.J.
Vehicle:
04 FXT

Default

Quote:
I've seen there's manual shift auto transmission in Japan market. Anyone familiar with this ?
It will make its U.S. debut in the 2003 Legacy GT. Don't think it will have the steering wheel controls like the JDM version though.
There's speculation that this might end up in the WRX in a few years.

-Dennis
bluesubie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 01:56 PM   #12
UF MarkED
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 12690
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Indian Head, MD
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
WR Blue Pearl

Default

you forgot about the difference in the center diff. the auto has a hydraulic active power distribution were the sticks have a passive LSDiff (if i remember correctly im fairly sure it is not just an open diff) So the autos have generially better traction as well a slightly rear favioring setup. The auto makes the car a far more complete system, in that when traction is lost the auto trany actually works with the engine and signals the fuel to cut back injectors.

I think the superiority complex stick owners get comes from the fact you can objectify there dominance on the 1/4 mile track, while the difference on real rain/snow soaked, mountian, curvey roads are less quantifiable. especially when most of us drove fwds before this, the difference between two types of AWDs may seem silly. but really if all you care about is the 1/4 mile get a RWD car.
UF MarkED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 02:21 PM   #13
PadreWRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 5311
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Carrollton, Georgia
Vehicle:
2004 GTO 11.2 @ 123
Was 4EAT '02 WRX 13.1@104

Default

Ho hum. Another auto vs. manual thread.

For those who says auto-guys don't care about performance, here's my Auto WRX vs. LS1 Vette:


Here's the full video (1.5MB)

50+ trips down the strip with full brake-torque launches (4000+rpm) and no problems.

Just FYI.

Padre
PadreWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 02:36 PM   #14
RiftsWRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6124
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Glendale Hts, IL, USA
Vehicle:
2000 NFR AP1 S2000
'07 Honda FIT sport (5MT)

Default

To any heartfelt auto-basher:

To any person who wants an excuse as to why some of us get autos: DARE to be different

To any person who thinks I can't drive stick: I'll probobly out "stick" most people on this board....

To any person who wants to ask me RELEVENT and PREVELENT questions: Fire away

Jorge (RiftsWRX)
www.ProjectWRX.com
RiftsWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 03:29 PM   #15
Scoobs
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 16364
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Augusta GA
Vehicle:
02 WRX
aspen white

Default

well I have had both the auto and a manual wrx.. I have the manual right now....I can tell you the manual is like a diferant car! its so much faster! i do say the auto is a more advanced and reliable tranny but if you want to make serious power get a manual...but then there is rifts. but if youre not gonna go that wild then get a manual
Scoobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 04:53 PM   #16
silverwagon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 16681
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Valley Village
Vehicle:
2002 WRX wagon
Silver

Default Auto vs Manual

There is one other reason to get the manual transmission....


Autos SUCK!!!


I absolutely hate the things. They shift when you don't want, they don't downshift the right way.

When I was shopping for a car, the dealers would always ask me "why don't you want an auto?", "THIS car has a great auto!". They would always assume that I wanted it for the speed. Yes it is true that in the right hands, stick will be faster and have better mileage than an auto. I must admit that I am probably not that driver. I just hate autos!!!!!

Matt
silverwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 05:13 PM   #17
Torch
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 10172
Join Date: Sep 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Default

Engrish????
Torch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 05:32 PM   #18
RokketRide
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 17984
Join Date: Apr 2002
Vehicle:
1967 Barracuda

Default Re: Auto vs Manual

Quote:
Originally posted by silverwagon
There is one other reason to get the manual transmission....


Autos SUCK!!!


I absolutely hate the things. They shift when you don't want, they don't downshift the right way.

Matt
I can take you for a ride in my 70 Cuda. It has a 30 year old dinosaur auto and the shifting is right on the money. Driver input is very precise, downshifts like a champ and it reliably handles well over 400hp.
RokketRide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 06:52 PM   #19
RobPA
Guest
 
Member#:
Default Re: Auto vs Manual

Wow with that post you sound like a real genious! I think im going to trade in my auto right now because that post was just so compelling and got to me emotionally, i dont know what to do !!




[quote]Originally posted by silverwagon
There is one other reason to get the manual transmission....


Autos SUCK!!!


I absolutely hate the things. They shift when you don't want, they don't downshift the right way.

When I was shopping for a car, the dealers would always ask me "why don't you want an auto?", "THIS car has a great auto!". They would always assume that I wanted it for the speed. Yes it is true that in the right hands, stick will be faster and have better mileage than an auto. I must admit that I am probably not that driver. I just hate autos!!!!!

Matt
[/QUOTE
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 07:01 PM   #20
unmprezivwrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16801
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: South Jersey
Vehicle:
2009 Murano SL AWD
Deep Sapphire Metallic

Default FYI

Just FYI...

In the FBody world most who drag race a lot switches to autos once they get very high HP... the 6 spd isn't strong enough.. I couldn't drive an auto, but each has advantages..

eric
unmprezivwrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2002, 11:50 PM   #21
chmoorewrx
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 17546
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Rocky Mountain High
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
WR Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by UF MarkED
you forgot about the difference in the center diff. the auto has a hydraulic active power distribution were the sticks have a passive LSDiff (if i remember correctly im fairly sure it is not just an open diff) So the autos have generially better traction as well a slightly rear favioring setup. The auto makes the car a far more complete system, in that when traction is lost the auto trany actually works with the engine and signals the fuel to cut back injectors.
Cool! I had no idea the WRX auto had traction control!!! They should start marketing that! I only thought the H-6 Legacys had it. Very cool. Definitely go for the traction-control auto in the snow.
chmoorewrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2002, 12:06 AM   #22
Corn-Picker
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8679
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morgantown, WV
Vehicle:
2010 The most hated
vehicle on the internets

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Diranged

Advantages with an auto:
1) As long as your not drag racing, they are usually more reliable
2) You can let anyone drive the car and not worry as much
3) Great for driving around town and in traffic -- more relaxing
I consider number two a disadvantage to owning an auto Ooo, you say you can't drive stick, I woulda let you drive my car if ya could drive stick
Corn-Picker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2002, 09:18 AM   #23
kenshiro
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15917
Join Date: Mar 2002
Vehicle:
2002 teh FastAR rex
Black like my soul

Default

This guy I met at the drag strip has an auto AWD turbo Eclipse. That thing screws. He was running low 12's all day long. I don't know how he does it, but it looks like he comes off the line with 100% of his torque. You should see this thing it makes my 1.8 60' times look slow. It's awesome. I'm talking all 4 tires lit up in smoke. If an auto WRX could do that too, I'd like to have one.
kenshiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2002, 12:08 PM   #24
harrydog
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3773
Join Date: Jan 2001
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
2006 Outback 3.0R

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by UF MarkED
you forgot about the difference in the center diff. the auto has a hydraulic active power distribution were the sticks have a passive LSDiff (if i remember correctly im fairly sure it is not just an open diff) So the autos have generially better traction as well a slightly rear favioring setup. The auto makes the car a far more complete system, in that when traction is lost the auto trany actually works with the engine and signals the fuel to cut back injectors.

I think the superiority complex stick owners get comes from the fact you can objectify there dominance on the 1/4 mile track, while the difference on real rain/snow soaked, mountian, curvey roads are less quantifiable. especially when most of us drove fwds before this, the difference between two types of AWDs may seem silly. but really if all you care about is the 1/4 mile get a RWD car.
I surely can't figure out why anyone would want an auto WRX unless they have a physical handicap that prevents them from using a manual. A properly driven manual is pure joy in a car like the WRX. While a manual is quicker in the 1/4 mile, where it really shines is on the twisty back roads. You have so much more control over the car, there's no comparison.
Any attempt at justifying an auto in a car like the WRX only comes off as sounding very lame. If your priorities are performance, there is simply no good reason to buy an auto. The difference in the AWD system excuse is also lame because the difference is minimal where as the difference between the auto and manual is huge.
harrydog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2002, 01:36 PM   #25
bpitas
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 13644
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Taunton, MA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sport Wagon
Silver

Default AWD difference between auto and 5spd

I certainly wouldn't consider the electronic traction control of the automatic tranny WRXs as an advantage!
I've owned cars with a few different forms of traction control/AWD/4WD, and my LEAST favorite was the one that used electronic traction control in concert with AWD... Let me summarize my experience with each one:

1) '99 C5 coupe - RWD, crappy tires for snow, but really good traction control software that would actually detect the surface you were on and control the engine differently based on the conditions. In rain, it would just cut the throttle-by-wire until the engine matched the speed of the wheels, and then it would feed power back in. In snow, it would first cut the throttle to try and hook back up, but then it would detect that you were in snow and actually encourage the wheels to spin so that you maintained forward momentum. It was really really effective considering the stock tires, as I drove the C5 year round, and unless the snow was over the air dam, it did just fine on the stock GY F1 runflats. The software was good enough that even with a wet 1/4 mile track (last run before rain closed New Englad Dragway one night) I could get a 13.9 in the quarter with the traction control turned on. Always drag raced with it off normally though - that car was worth 13.000 at 110mph on a perfect night... STILL, starting from a dead stop in snow was pretty much impossible in this car, just because the tires were practically designed to float on top of the snow without biting in...

2) '99 MB ML430 - AWD (but really one-wheel-drive). This system SUCKS because what it basically consists of is three open diffs. It uses the ABS sensors to detect wheel spin, and when it detects it, it applies that one brake, re-distributing the torque to the other three wheels (or other open diffs) In other words, since it always waits until a wheel spins before stopping it with the brakes, the wheel is already dug in before the torque gets re-distributed. My truck does OK (not great) on regular wet/slippery/snowy roads, but tends to get stuck if you actually drive in snow over 3" deep because that AWD system just sucks.

3) '85 Chevy Blazer - Part time 4WD - This truck is rusting out behind my shed right now because I can't bear to part with it after all of these years. It was an absolute TANK whenever it snowed and was pretty much unstoppable. It had open diffs front and rear, but the locking center diff was generally enough to get it through just about anything. Still, it would have been even better with a limited slip in the rear, which I think was an option, I just didn't get it since I bought the truck used...

4) '02 WRX Wagon - Fulltime 4WD - I know our cars are marketed as "All Wheel Drive", but to me it's more accurately Fulltime 4wd since they have limited slip diffs in the middle and rear. OK, well, since the front diff is open, it really acts like "full-time 3 wheel drive", but close enough. :-) We had a couple of snowstorms this last winter while I had my wagon, one was even 3-4" (which seems like it is somewhat rare in Mass the last few years) and the WRX never even came CLOSE to getting stuck. The LSD in the rear and middle mean that all four wheels are effectively turning at the same speed even if you're on a crappy surface.


OK, now that I've summarized the different systems that I've personally owned, let me say why I was specifically impressed with the system on the WRX (5spd).

First of all, NOTHING is more frustrating than a "stupid" electronic traction control system. Like if you're in semi-deep snow, and you know you want to keep your wheels spinning to keep your momentum up, and the stupid traction control system cuts the throttle on you so you stop and get stuck. ARGH!!! That sucks. :-) (ML430)

Smart traction control systems are a little better, because they *realize* that you're on snow, and that you need to keep your momentum up, so they don't get in the way. Or to generalize, they have the ability to recognize that there are different conditions out there, and they can react appropriately for those different conditions. (Corvette's ASR/Active Handling)

Part-time 4-wheel drive systems are cool, because you can basically drive around normally, and when you get stuck and need it, you can engage 4WD to get unstuck. I realize that AWD helps handling even when you're NOT accelerating, but for the average Joe Sixpack it's the difference between 9/10ths and 9.5/10ths, and they will probably not get into a situation where they need the added stability of 4WD/AWD unless it's an emergency, or something unanticipated comes up. Still, most people can get along perfectly well with part-time 4WD, it's just not optimal. (GM Part-time 4WD)

But to me the best system out there is what the WRX 5spd has.

1) It is always there whether you need it or not. I'm sure there have been times when I accelerated from a stop and would have spun the wheels of a 2WD car, but the WRX hooks up seamlessly.

2) While I'm a little disappointed that they use a viscous coupling instead of a torsen, I know that I can pull out of just about ANY conditions, because all four wheels are generally driven. (It can go down to 3 wheels if one of the front wheels is the one slipping, but that's still pretty good)

3) I'm in control of it all. If I sense all four wheels slipping in deep snow and I think I should back off the throttle to have them hook back up, then I can do so. If, however, I know that I need to maintain my momentum to get out of some nasty conditions or up a hill or something, then I just stay in the gas. It's all up to me, and after years of driving in New England (including lots of ski trips during the week in blizzards, when you can find the best conditions :-) I can definitely guess the right response better than a computer, especially since I can look up ahead at the conditions in front of me (proactive) while the computer can only be reactive.

WOW, I just realized how long this post has become, so I'll get to the point: If the WRX 5spd (I never would have even *considered* an automatic) had the same electronic AWD setup as the WRX auto (and HDC3.0 or whatever it's called) then I would have bought something else pure and simple. I've experienced electronic traction control and AWD setups, and my experiences have been BAD. I haven't tried the Subaru system, so maybe it's somehow alot better than the Mercedes or GM systems, but the fact remains that the best it can do is to react very quickly to the current conditions - it can't proactively decide what to do. That's why I'll always take the AWD system where *I'm* in control.

[Flame suit on!] :-)

-B
bpitas is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
auto RS to manual WRX, few things amiss KAX Subaru Conversions 2 01-22-2007 07:16 PM
Performance of Auto Transmission vs manual? joefocker20 Newbies & FAQs 24 01-02-2002 08:14 AM
('93-'01) S4 vs WRX vs 330Cxi WRX 2nd TurboWRXImpreza Impreza Forum 13 09-29-2001 11:41 PM
Hey Rifts WRX-Auto Tranny- auto shift vs manual Willman67 Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 1 05-17-2001 07:57 AM
Auto Tranny vs Manual Tranny DaveV Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 36 04-10-2001 07:50 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.