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Old 05-25-2002, 11:21 AM   #1
V6
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Default ProECM -- any side effects?

Hi,

I am not sure I post in the right forum or not.


Anyone installed the ProECM?

Any noticeable improvements?

Any noticeable side effects?

Thanks.
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Old 05-25-2002, 12:36 PM   #2
Dr Ken
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Hi V6,

The beneficial vs. deleterious effects of ProECM has been the topic of much debate, without much resolution. Unless I've missed recent updates, there is a disappointing paucity of substantiated performance data of this device from the manufacturer or others. A few i-clubbers have posted some dyno results, but these are somewhat confounded by other mods (CAI, etc). This being said, most (including myself) have noted a significant butt-dyno gain. The car seems to pull smoother right on up the power curve.

In terms of potential harm, there is valid reason for concern. Without data of knocking or potential adverse effects, one can only go with caution. As time goes on maybe these will be revealed. I can say that my cautious observation has revealed no sign of knocking or fouling of plugs. I can’t help wondering if the mixture runs a little rich, though.

You may find this link helpful: Click
- Ken
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Old 05-25-2002, 01:47 PM   #3
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There has been a few who has gotten a bad chip which gave them an early redline in the revband. I have had it for two months now, and as with V6, I have no problems yet. The car seats likes to tug on my butt whenever in first and second. ......I think I like it.
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Old 05-25-2002, 01:55 PM   #4
Jesse Lorenzen
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I too believe that my ProECM chip has made an imporovement. Maybe there are not any definte numbers yet, but from my expirience and what I have read almost everbody that has one is very pleased. I just changed my spark plugs at 30K and I have had the Chip the last 10K, My NGK's looked like they could have gone a lot longer. I would reccomend it to anybody.
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Old 05-25-2002, 05:14 PM   #5
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Plugged my ProECM in and I couldn't be happier. Much better throttle response it seems and butt-dyno gains give it a big thumbs up, even passenger butt-dyno confirms a faster 0-60 time. When I find a good clean road with minimal traffic I'll do some serious testing but for now I'm quite pleased.

Had it for over a month, hard and soft driving (no auto-x yet). No CEL's or other adverse effects.
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Old 05-26-2002, 12:28 AM   #6
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yea so I love mine... I have gotten a power increase and a little bit better accleration plus... this is the most biggest thing I noticed is some how I dont throw check engine lights for my headers!!!!! I dont know how....

~Matt
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Old 05-26-2002, 12:42 AM   #7
Marcin
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I'm one of those 4200rpm redline guys.
This becomes a problem when the chip is not grounded properly.
I suggest grounding the chip to the ecu ground wire.

Once we got the grounding figured out, there was nothing but gains. Car pulls much better.
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Old 05-26-2002, 02:04 AM   #8
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Iīm also happy with the chip, I feel the car faster, as some of my friends did too!

But I also have some questions that canīt seem to find answers.

I think my car is running richer now, because I donīt see my exhaust pipe white anymore when driving hard, now it is always black smoked, Could my car be running too rich? Could too rich be bad for the engine? Iīm planning on getting some gauges to keep the info, just donīt have the cash rigth now.

Also the chip intercepts the coolant temperature, does this means, that since it is "cheating" the ECU, it could be running a a temp that is not good or could be bad to the engine? would this be possible? or it doesnīt changes the signal that way?

Also I had an incident, like 1 month after install, with no problems at all before that! I was pushing my car a little hard, and from what I remember it was a very hot day, just when I was getting home a CE light came on, I think the motor was very hot, there was some strange smell, but couldnīt figure it out, between the pads, tires, and the hosetechniques kit, That I think makes a different smell (has anyone else felt this). So I let it alone till next day, I turn it on, no CE light, everything normal. So I donīt really know what happened. I have no clue

Iīm a newbie, and donīt know much about engines, etc. Just trying to learn a bit from this forum, So excuse me if Iīm saying something wrong, or my questions seem too basic. Thanks for your help.
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Old 05-26-2002, 03:24 AM   #9
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where can you buy one??
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Old 05-26-2002, 09:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
where can you buy one?
If you do a search you can find like 2 or 3 places to buy it online. I got it from larry at ProECM Chip
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Old 05-26-2002, 10:57 AM   #11
Kevin Thomas
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Default Dang!

I wish I was in the same boat as you guys. My car runs lean....VERY lean between 5k-6k rpm. It was doing this before the cheap and continues to do it afterward. It seemed the Pro ECM Powerchip was helping for a bit than my car went back to 'normal'.

My Jumptronix Air/Fuel ratio meter, EGT Gauge and a couple of dyno runs validated this. The dyno runs had an air/fuel ratio checker on it to help tuning. Aaaahhhhh! This is on my XT6.
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Old 05-26-2002, 09:41 PM   #12
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heres a question, im interested in the proecm and the s-afc, does the proecm bacically just do what you would be doing with the s-afc(but without the dyno time) or can there also be more power found ontop of wiat the proecm gives you with the addition of an s-afc?

thanks
Eric
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Old 05-27-2002, 12:56 AM   #13
Dr Ken
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Kevin Thomas, This may be a stupid idea but I couldn't help wonder if maybe your fuel filter might be due for a change....this may erichen the ratio a bit at those revs? Just a thought.
Ken
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Old 05-27-2002, 10:39 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by awdwagon
heres a question, im interested in the proecm and the s-afc, does the proecm bacically just do what you would be doing with the s-afc(but without the dyno time) or can there also be more power found ontop of wiat the proecm gives you with the addition of an s-afc?

thanks
Eric
Well, since nobody knows exactly what the ProECM chip does, it's kind of hard to answer that question.

And dyno time is not a necessity to use the S-AFC. There are hundreds of people using S-AFCs without dyno tuning. Are they getting every last bit out of their engine? Probably not. Even without a dyno, though, there are a number of ways to evaluate how an engine is running. An AFR gauge, an OBD II scanner, hell, even spark plug electrode analysis will allow you to tune a car.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
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Old 05-27-2002, 01:06 PM   #15
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Awdwagon,

The ONLY thing an S-AFC does is help control the amount of fuel going into the engine, either by leaning it out or making it richer, you can it at various RPM's and under certain throttle loads.

A ProECM chip is VERY different, doing things like eliminating the rotational limit on your crankshaft, removing the speed limiter (in a 4EAT) and other mysterious things. However the ProECM does have a resistor you can tap into the MAP/MAF line and use to control voltage on the signal in such a way as to lean out or richen the fuel mixture but it's not nearly as accurate as the S-AFC would be nor as tunable, but it is an option (I don't use it on mine).
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Old 05-28-2002, 02:30 PM   #16
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>However the ProECM does have a resistor you can tap into the
>MAP/MAF line and use to control voltage on the signal in such a
>way as to lean out or richen the fuel mixture but it's not nearly
>as accurate as the S-AFC would be nor as tunable, but it is an
>option (I don't use it on mine).

Unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing I would not encourage anyone to use the voltage clamp for this purpose, it's easy to run too lean by doing it. And as we all know that is not a good thing.

/David
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Old 05-28-2002, 03:11 PM   #17
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OK, I just read through the endless "let's bash the ProECM" post (http://i-club.com/forums/showthread....ghlight=ProECU) and have to say this... After reading through all the whining and conjecture there is a ton of good info. Having a physics degree, with a concentration in microprocessor design, the "chip" makes perfect sense. David, not trying to "reverse engineer" anything, just posting what it seems to do. The ECT is one of a myriad of sensors used to determine the fuel and ignition timing maps. The maps will base the output on the interpereted input signal form said sensors. If one of the sensors (ECT in this case) changes, the fuel and timing maps will adjust accordingly. IFF (that's "if and only if" for the math geeks out there) the the overall mapping is outside a set normals, you will get a CEL. The ProECM, TCII, etc use a microprocessor to (imo) manage a wide range of I/O voltages with the end result= greater ign advance and slight fuel enrichment to prevent pre-detonation. The knock sensor will operate independent of the system .: (that's therefore, for all the math geeks) you will still have ign retard when knock is encountered. Using higher octane fuel will prevent pre-detonation at given degrees of advance, .: using higher octane fuel will (should) allow more advance. I will probably be a customer real soon (differential went boom, need $$ ). I can forsee no negative effect of the chip and am quite intrested to see how well the work in conjunction with a capacitive discharge ingition system (MSD SCI, Nology "hot-wires", etc).

Oh, and V6... don't believe the flaming, negative hype. I've been floating around here for years, and my MY99 runs with a stock low-mialge WRX. According to past flames and misinformed posters, my 21mm sway bar makes the car too tail-happy (not true, Y2k SOWDIV STS champion), my weapon R intake sucks and will blow up my MAF (both not true), my generic free flowing muffler (~$100), Catco high-flow cat (~$70), and custom header (~$100) wont make the power of a $500 plus pre-fab cat back (again absolutely not true). Take that for what its worth
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Old 05-28-2002, 05:22 PM   #18
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Whoa

~Matt
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Old 05-28-2002, 06:13 PM   #19
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Damn. I really want that chip, it looks good, just no hard numbers. Kee-ripes! On the up side, if I don't like it then somebody will buy it quick "fo sho"....
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Old 05-28-2002, 11:26 PM   #20
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Ok so my above post about not throwing a CEL anymore... isnt true anymore since I just threw one today... but I dont think its my headers since it happened when I turned on my AC and a little smoke came out of the vents... Witch really has me stumped...


~Matt
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Old 05-29-2002, 04:18 AM   #21
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I finally got to install my chip today. It was real easy to install. Anyone that has any experience in wiring stuff, ie head units or whatever, I am sure could do this. The installation went very smooth, my car started up perfectly, nothing bad happened at all. My car definitely feels like it pulls harder, and smoother. I have to say that I am happy with my purchase.

To the guy with the question about if it is bad for your engine to run rich, I don't think it is. The only negative effects that I can think of would be not having optimal power becaue you are not perfectly stoich, your gas mileage wouldn't be optimal, and you will go through spark plugs quicker.

-Wes
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Old 05-29-2002, 09:41 AM   #22
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Splat, I've had a CEL since I put my first muffler on I've just gotten used to it. Have the dealer check the code, if its no big deal than don't sweat it. The best fix for a bogus CEL is the electrical tape mod . Seriously, my enduring code is the "evaporative emissions" code... gas cap, charcoal filter, ECU brain-fart, who knows.
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Old 05-29-2002, 12:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by BOY
The ECT is one of a myriad of sensors used to determine the fuel and ignition timing maps. The maps will base the output on the interpereted input signal form said sensors. If one of the sensors (ECT in this case) changes, the fuel and timing maps will adjust accordingly
You have forgotten one key ingredient in the entire discussion. Most people buy this chip to make their car faster. That is all they are looking for. Faster means that its maximum acceleration is increased. Well, maximum acceleration is achieved at WOT, and WOT engages open loop in the ECU. Open loop ignores all sensors but the MAP/MAF when determining the fuel mixture. Instead it uses pre-set maps according to the readings from the MAP/MAF sensors. The ignition timing is a different issue, but we also determined in that post that the chip cannot stop the knock sensor from retarding timing. If it cannot stop the retarding, then what good is it? It will continue to retard until you are at the same timing as before. The chip itself does not reduce knocks/pings, the higher octane fuel can help that. So who needs the chip?

Your logic works fine as long as the ECU is in closed loop. So if you only want the chip to modify the fuel mixture when you are cruising or at light throttle, then you have the right chip.
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Old 05-29-2002, 01:05 PM   #24
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Here we go again .

I know I will regret posting this.

>Open loop ignores all sensors but the MAP/MAF when
>determining the fuel mixture.

BugBomb you are wrong!!
Are you ever going to realize?

/David
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Old 05-29-2002, 02:19 PM   #25
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Bugbomb, the engine at WOT cannot possibly ignore all the sensors but the MAF/MAP. Try this experiment for me. Unplug the o2 sensors and mash the throttle. Or better yet, unplug the TPS and do the same thing. My best estimate of the reason they use microprocessor(s) is to monitor the ECT input signal for fluctuation. If the ECT input signal is too high (or too low for that matter) the ProECM should disengage. For each temp reading there should be a different fuel/ign map value and the ProECM must calculate the deviation. 'nuff said? Drop the rant and press on. Better yet, try a variable resistor in the ECT signal wire.
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