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View Poll Results: Would you be interested in a set of upgraded valves? Possibly a group buy?
Yes, interested and would be in on a GB. 14 60.87%
Yes, interested but would purchase down the line. 8 34.78%
Yes, but I will need something more then that. (reply with what you\'re thinking) 1 4.35%
No, I\'m not interested. 0 0%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-14-2002, 09:57 AM   #1
8Complex

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Default Interest in SOHC valve springs?

I just want to see how much interest there is in a set of valve springs that we can just drop right in, no changing the seats or retainers. Hopefully the set will be pretty cheap (relatively, you know), but the higher the quantity bought, the cheaper they get.

To give you all an idea cost-wise, the spring/retainer package from Cobb is $500, a set of spring/retainers for a Civic from Crower is $430. I'm hoping that these will be in the High $200's, or low $300's.

Please vote and also reply and let me know what type of pressure you're interested in them holding and to what RPM. I'm thinking of about 14psi until about 7500-8000rpm. That'd take care of nearly all RS-T applications, I think.
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Last edited by 8Complex; 06-14-2002 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 06-14-2002, 11:38 AM   #2
Impreza Rider
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I would be interested, but down the line. But at the same time I would probably do cams, since the stock ones don't make power above 6k.

The I think that you would run into problems with the bottom...can it handle an 8k limit?

Honestly, I'm going to drive my engine until I blow it up, and then get a built one (from Cobb most likely...I know you don't like them)
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Old 06-14-2002, 11:57 AM   #3
8Complex

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I think the bottom end shoudl be fine until 8krpm... the WRX's run up that high, and they come off the same assembly line with the same assembly processes. I doubt that they specify any different tolerances in the weights of the rods/pistons between the two, so it should be safe. I've revved mine to about 7300 before (oops downshift... thought I wasn't going that fast) with no problems.

Re: Cobb. I really and truely have no problem with Cobb's products. In this case, I'm looking for a bit more of an inexpensive solution, though.
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Old 06-14-2002, 12:19 PM   #4
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Thumbs up I'm down

I definitely in on the new valve springs. This is great timing since I'm planning on a moderate engine build. One last thing could we apply the same poll/GB to cams and pistons too? We could do them separately so we wouldn't have to drop a ton of cash right away.
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Old 06-14-2002, 01:30 PM   #5
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i definitley need springs...but don't forget you will need new valves and retainers to hold the increased spring capacity, so if we can get a GB going on Springs, Valves, Titanium Retainers and seals i'm all abou tit...springs by them self are totally useless.

jeremy
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Old 06-14-2002, 01:53 PM   #6
8Complex

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Quote:
Originally posted by HndaTch627
springs by them self are totally useless.
How do you figure? Cobb goes through and just uprates the springs and retainers... and the only reason they update the retainers is because they're titanium and are lighter. I don't see need for retainers since the profile of the valve grooves and the retainers are the same, unless the top plates of the retainers are thinner... but I don't think they'll have any problems.
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Old 06-14-2002, 02:06 PM   #7
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i'm interested
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Old 06-14-2002, 02:44 PM   #8
skywalker
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Cool

I am interested in the group buy. Though I do not plan on going above 7500 ever and probalby only 10PSI. I am a little worried about the bottom end like Impreza Rider is. Right now my car is running up to a limit of 6500 and I can feel the car struggling to get any sort of power above 6000 right now.

I think a valve springs and cams would be a worthwhile group buy. Something I would prefer too. That way you can actually use the springs for what they were suppose to be used for.

This might sound like a dumb question, but do stiffer valve springs change the bottom end horsepower and torque of the car? Just wondering...
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Old 06-14-2002, 05:22 PM   #9
8Complex

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Quote:
Originally posted by skywalker
This might sound like a dumb question, but do stiffer valve springs change the bottom end horsepower and torque of the car? Just wondering...
No they don't. It is a bit more of a safeguard against valve float due to excessive rev's and excessive pressure on the backside of the valves (boost).

I might be wrong, but I think that it would help create power up higher in the rev's even with stock cams. My logic on that would be that the pressure isn't pushing even more on the valves which are already nearly floating due to the rev's. Just a guess, don't hold me to it... I'm not entirely schooled on the subject.

A cam GB would be excellent, but the problem is that the services alone from WebCam are $500, and you'd need stock cams to send in first. I have an extra set, however I do not have the specs to have them ground to. I was directed from them directly to Cobb when I started even asking about cams for the 2.5. Took them a minute to answer my questions, and only after I told them that I was looking for a custom grind.

Just the cams from the dealership are 203.97 each. They're 155.42 from Subaruparts.com, so you can expect new cams, reground for about ~$850 shipped. Then who knows what the discount is with WebCam. Problem with that one is establishing a line of credit big enough to get 5, 10, etc sets done at a time. :-/

Search bait: Stock Cam Part Number 13022AA481 (driver side), 13020AA512 (passenger side).
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Old 06-14-2002, 05:47 PM   #10
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i'm intrested in a GB of these springs depending on price.
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Old 06-14-2002, 07:03 PM   #11
seven881
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Cool PAECO Cams

I received a direct quote from Carl at PAECO about cams for the 2.5 SOHC, and they 're $420.00 for the set. I don't know much about the cams with regards to quality, but this may be an option. I can contact him to see if he needs the original cams first, if there's intrest in them. Also, a set of forged pistons were $420.00 as well.

Last edited by seven881; 06-17-2002 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 06-14-2002, 08:22 PM   #12
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hmm has anyone used used oversized valves in the RS heads yet??? I know it made a HUGE difference in my 240sx project and it made the cams SOOO much sweeter.

Brad
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Old 06-15-2002, 01:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by 8Complex


How do you figure? Cobb goes through and just uprates the springs and retainers... and the only reason they update the retainers is because they're titanium and are lighter. I don't see need for retainers since the profile of the valve grooves and the retainers are the same, unless the top plates of the retainers are thinner... but I don't think they'll have any problems.
well FWIW stock valves are meant to last with STOCK springs and retainers...9 time out of 10 you'll krack a retainer before a valve, but i'd like to know the longevity of the stock valve's with up graded springs and upgraded redline.

Jeremy
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Old 06-16-2002, 01:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by HndaTch627
well FWIW stock valves are meant to last with STOCK springs and retainers...9 time out of 10 you'll krack a retainer before a valve, but i'd like to know the longevity of the stock valve's with up graded springs and upgraded redline.
*nod* We had this conversation yesterday, IIRC. Guess Hondas break valve stems when this upgrade is done. I wonder if it's from the extra push of the new springs on the wedges (retainers) pressing into the stem, or if it has something to do with extra impact that the valves take at the higher RPM's.
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Old 06-17-2002, 10:38 AM   #15
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I'm interested.
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Old 06-17-2002, 06:01 PM   #16
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Too bad you can't get a set of dual springs for the valves like the stock setup on a GTI-R. Having 2 springs per valve is a really good way to be safe against float. The Silvia guys borrow from the GTI-R to uprade their springs and from the new N1 Pulsar to get the stock titanium retainers. Too bad the Subaru doesn't have interchangable parts like that.
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Old 06-18-2002, 12:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Please vote and also reply and let me know what type of pressure you're interested in them holding and to what RPM. I'm thinking of about 14psi until about 7500-8000rpm. That'd take care of nearly all RS-T applications, I think.
I would like to see more boost, say around 16-20 lbs. Also the same redline 7k-8k. Most built blocks can handle more than 14 lbs of boost.

Paul...
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Old 06-18-2002, 06:04 AM   #18
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Definitly look into the retainers atleast. This may add a ton of RPM before valve float, even without adding to the spring rate.

The local race engine builder swears by Ti retainers for his SBC's that he does for the circle track guys, as it makes them ultra relaible at the RPMS they run, and they make more power due to less spring needed to keep the float away.
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Old 06-18-2002, 10:57 AM   #19
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I'd be interested in them for my EJ22 engine... Would come in quite handy as I plan to run a 7500 RPM redline and might go to 8k if it seems to be doing well.. Afterall the engine is built to handle it quite well.

Keep me posted. Right now Primitive sells aftermarket Springs for my engine, so your price would have to compete (and fit) for me.

Let me know Nick, retainers would be a plus.

Jon
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Old 06-18-2002, 11:33 AM   #20
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Does anyone know if the valves from any WRX will fit in the 2.5RS head? I assume there will be problems with the DOHC vs SOHC.

I would in for a GB at 200-300, but I would also like to see a set of upgraded retainers.

J
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Old 06-18-2002, 12:02 PM   #21
8Complex

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I'm going to look into retainers as well, I don't think that we have much to worry about regarding the cracking HndaTch was talking about above since I doubt anyone here will be running a 9k+ redline. I have my suspicions that Honda sets are already higher rate then ours since they run much higher redlines anyway.
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Old 06-19-2002, 10:28 AM   #22
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Default Yes!

I just got a set of bare 2.5 heads and i am interested in a GB. valves springs and retainers.
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Old 06-19-2002, 11:20 AM   #23
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Ok, got the springs and retainers out yesterday for a quote. I may look into valves as well, gotta talk it over with the place I'm going through for them. Possibly see if Ferrea makes/will make valves for us, as well.
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Old 06-19-2002, 01:26 PM   #24
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If you are getting valves made, get:
slightly oversized, like 1mm if they will fit
get swirl polished, possibly even reduces neck diameter.

J
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Old 06-19-2002, 06:40 PM   #25
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Oh heck. If this turns into a group buy on springs, valves, and retainers, I might have to spend the money.
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