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Old 07-15-2010, 05:14 PM   #276
john 1badSTI
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Originally Posted by I'm Slow View Post
obviously the 4G63 will be easier and cheaper to hit your goals in, however it is much more rewarding when you do it with a EJ motor. I have debated getting an EVO for the past 3 years but I have always stuck with the Subie platform. The way I see it is like this:
Having a 600whp EVO is not a big deal, its been done thousands of times and its not a challenge. When you take your 600 hp EVO to a Mitsu meet no one will care because they will be more interested in the 800whp-1000whp evos. Now having a 600whp sti is very impressive because you dont see them everywhere, having a 10 second sti is an accomplishment..........having a 10 second evo is just another 10 sec evo.

So I if you want easy and cheap power, and be liike every other evo owner and get a evo. If you want something rewarding and satisfying that hasn't been done by everyone and their mother then get the suby with a built EJ
I like the way you think +1 for you I agree totally.
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:46 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by I'm Slow View Post
obviously the 4G63 will be easier and cheaper to hit your goals in, however it is much more rewarding when you do it with a EJ motor. I have debated getting an EVO for the past 3 years but I have always stuck with the Subie platform. The way I see it is like this:
Having a 600whp EVO is not a big deal, its been done thousands of times and its not a challenge. When you take your 600 hp EVO to a Mitsu meet no one will care because they will be more interested in the 800whp-1000whp evos. Now having a 600whp sti is very impressive because you dont see them everywhere, having a 10 second sti is an accomplishment..........having a 10 second evo is just another 10 sec evo.

So I if you want easy and cheap power, and be liike every other evo owner and get a evo. If you want something rewarding and satisfying that hasn't been done by everyone and their mother then get the suby with a built EJ
Weird reasoning imo, although I understand the "underdog" aspect. People like what they like; there's nothing wrong with preferring Suby's and wanting to build an EJ engine.

However, in regard to this thread, 4g63>ej207>ej257.
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:19 PM   #278
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4G63 / Ej207-257... who cares, the insecurity in here is pathetic

I don't understand the point of these comparisons; we bought our cars for a myriad of reasons, not solely the motor.

If you bought an STi for the Ej257, you're an idiot, just like the guys who buy the STi hatch, for it's utility-

I didn't know the STi was an SUV as well

I need a 300hp minivanish-eurohatchish-whip, right...
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:24 PM   #279
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^^I guess the only guys that will understand my logic will be the guys who have worked hard and stuck with the EJ platform through thick and thin trying to run 10's.....even when their friends with EVO's running 10's like clock work bust their balls constantly lol. Now everyones trying to break into the 9's!!!!


^There a lot of pasion with the Ej platform not insecurity.......we all admit 4g63>ej25 no brainer
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:32 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by I'm Slow View Post
^ I guess the only guys that will understand my logic will be the guys who have worked hard and stuck with the EJ platform through thick and thin trying to run 10's.....even when their friends with EVO's running 10's like clock work bust their balls constantly lol. Now everyones trying to break into the 9's!!!!
I wouldn't sweat it at all; I share a similar mentality, the hard work will pay off.

I believe the issue in this thread is everyone is stuck on the motor; I'm cognizant of the 4G63 vs. EjXXX title, but the facts are the facts. It's quite annoying to beat the same dead horse, almost like it's alive again - but not.
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:37 PM   #281
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Comparing these two motors is hard to do for many reasons, the one i like to look at though is the amount of time people have had to work with them. How long has the 4G63 been around compared to the EJ25? When you put the time line in comparison the EJ motors arent really behind by all that much.

Ive owned a 4g63 in the past and agree they are cheaper and easier to make power with, but dont think they go without there problems as well.
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Old 07-15-2010, 07:08 PM   #282
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That reminds me, i need to rep u for the drag radials Thanks again
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Old 07-15-2010, 09:06 PM   #283
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There is no winner if you look at them in the big picture. They both have their cons and pros. I personally own and love both. I have love for all cars, respect all when earned. If you ever let your car to go past yourself you will never experience or learn.

As far as the engine comparison, it really should have been the Ej207 on subaru side, but since we are in US, it is fair to compare. Ej257 actually won the engine of the year award twice but unfortunately its known to be very fragile. The end users pushed these motors hard, and 4G63 held better. Ej207 would have actually saved subaru in the long run. They spent millions on warranty work because of this choice. A lot of built engines also failed, machine shop error, builder error, tuner error, end user error, friend error, you name it. Maybe we should keep it reasonable and have fun with the cars instead
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:10 PM   #284
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You're a jerk off. First you said that the 5 door was strictly for WRC efforts which they are pulling out of. Now your defending the 5 door because other countries use a more hatch back type vehicle and blends into their market lol. Just give it a rest lol.

Who said anything about s2000s, MR2's and RX's being cheap. You're just searching for a reason not to be wrong. Oh, and homie...if you don't think those cars are cheap I'd have to see what you think expensive is.
Calling me a jerk off when you're the first to start name calling, take a look in the mirror as you are quite condescending in your last post. This is an online forum open for discussion and we all know how to act like an adult so act like one.

I will keep my self civil in this reply. Please re-read everything I have posted in this thread.

Not once did I say the 5 door was strictly for WRC efforts. I stated that it was more of a world market move.

Yes you didn't say anything about s2k and the other vehicles being cheap. You said America only wants vehicles with torque. I asked if america wanted torque why are these vehicles still around? Then you stated they have quite producing them, which yes is true. But I bring up the point they are not cheap. Simple supply and demand. High demand but low supply means higher prices. Which is exactly what is the case with most of these cars. Over 10K for a car built in the early to mid 90's is expensive. More than 4k dollars for a car that was built in the 80's is expensive.

I am a cheapo and think most cars are too expensive. But hey as long as people think 30K for a car is resonable the repo men still have jobs.

Is there anything else you need me to spell out for you
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Old 07-16-2010, 12:15 AM   #285
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I would just sell my STi and get a 03/04 mustang cobra and for 10k get a 3.4L whipple supercharger and all the supporting mods and be churning out 800 ponies on E85. Just my opinion lol. Also a great deal more reliable.
Sense. This guy makes it.
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:46 AM   #286
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Calling me a jerk off when you're the first to start name calling, take a look in the mirror as you are quite condescending in your last post. This is an online forum open for discussion and we all know how to act like an adult so act like one.

I will keep my self civil in this reply. Please re-read everything I have posted in this thread.

Not once did I say the 5 door was strictly for WRC efforts. I stated that it was more of a world market move.

Yes you didn't say anything about s2k and the other vehicles being cheap. You said America only wants vehicles with torque. I asked if america wanted torque why are these vehicles still around? Then you stated they have quite producing them, which yes is true. But I bring up the point they are not cheap. Simple supply and demand. High demand but low supply means higher prices. Which is exactly what is the case with most of these cars. Over 10K for a car built in the early to mid 90's is expensive. More than 4k dollars for a car that was built in the 80's is expensive.

I am a cheapo and think most cars are too expensive. But hey as long as people think 30K for a car is resonable the repo men still have jobs.

Is there anything else you need me to spell out for you
First off this went from a 4g63 vs. EJ2xx thread and you changing it to something else entirely. I made the statement about the EJ25x motor making it stateside for Americans being torque happy and you started all this high rev mumbo jumbo about non EJ/4G motors due to low gas quality. Now you're talking about sub 10k compacts being expensive. WTF thread are you in buddy! For 10k I can build a LSx 240 or FC/FD, but this isn't about what I want!

This is about what the OP wants, not about you're crazy bull**** stories about high revving motors from other manufacturers and low octane gas being the reason for no EJ207. It was only kept for WRC efforts again! Why do you think so much more design went into the heads and such! I'm sure the EJ257 would have a much better head design if it was used in the WRC. Some **** is just common sense, just give it up bro. Also I never said anything about Americans only wanting torque, but that we prefer it to a high revving race type power band on the street.

Finally if I was going to grab a 90's Japanese car it would be a 300zx twin turbo or a Mitsu 3000GT vr4 with twin 20g's, hell even a 98+ GS300 with a NA 2JZ in excellent shape is only 5500! That car with a bolt on turbo is unreal! Supra motor in a VIP body car from the factory. All cheap and under 10k.
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Old 07-16-2010, 08:34 AM   #287
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... hell even a 98+ GS300 with a NA 2JZ in excellent shape is only 5500! That car with a bolt on turbo is unreal! Supra motor in a VIP body car from the factory. All cheap and under 10k.
ditto, thats one of the cars im considering getting next. that or an IS300, but thats a little ways down the road lol
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Old 07-16-2010, 08:53 PM   #288
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ditto, thats one of the cars im considering getting next. that or an IS300, but thats a little ways down the road lol
a properly built is300 will cost just as much as a slowbaru. yeah you can bolt on a turbo and run low boost but it'll be just as much as a ticking time bomb as any other NA-T car. rebuild it w/ GTE pistons and you can make some power..more so w/ forged slugs but duh...

the difference is you'll make 600 hp on pump ALL day in any weather condition and it'll stay together, not so w/ the subie. yes to all you fan boys, the rwd sux0rz in the rain and your subaru will beat it in the rain, mud, snow,ice, etc ..but

that being said there are a few is300's making 650+ on the stock ecu w/ a built auto tranny.. INLINE ENGINES RULE

Last edited by mxpunk; 07-16-2010 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 07-17-2010, 03:17 AM   #289
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ditto, thats one of the cars im considering getting next. that or an IS300, but thats a little ways down the road lol
I want a GS so bad I can taste it bro haha. I like the IS300 as well, but they're a bit more known. I love the old HKS Altezza that was made illegal for time attacks! ****ing beast son!
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:14 AM   #290
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Would it be a surprise for an EJ to last two years running a 3076 at 12psi?

I strongly suspect there are EJ-based cars here that have been running that turbo at higher boost (and making considerably more power) for longer than 2 years. In fact I think you'd have a hard time finding anyone running a 3076 in an EJ at less than 15 psi.

BTW, I have to wonder where he'd rank the LS1 in that series.
its the rpm and power im referring to in stock form thats impressive not life expectancy, the fact that it has lasted this long is simply proof these motors are amazing. Show me any engine that has such a high ve it only takes 12psi to make 333whp, spin to 9000rpm, is a tiny 1.6, and in 100% stock trim w cast pistons, stock cams, stock ports, stock valvetrain, etc... At 16psi id clear 400whp and it would still hold together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevosnowsti View Post
Any of those engines will do better than that.
your missing the point, see above... Honda makes some of the best engines in the world, those too ignorant to understand are closed minded, i love my suby, i love all cars but facts are facts. 100% oem, 9000rpm, 1.6 friggin liter cranking out 333whp at a scant 12psi, if u cant see the miracle in that u dont understand how engines really work and what an engineering marvel this is...
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Old 07-17-2010, 05:02 AM   #291
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All this talk made me wanna bring out my Honda, just got back from a drive, did i mention my measly 1.6 starts to spool my turbo as low as 3400rpm in 2nd gear? Awwww yeah!!
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:57 AM   #292
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The reason you made that power is because Honda's heads are the best in the game. The blocks aren't anything to write home about.
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Old 07-17-2010, 09:05 AM   #293
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The funny part is how fast 333whp will get you.

There is a dude near me running 11.40s or so and I've watched his car make 332 on a DJ.
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Old 07-17-2010, 04:24 PM   #294
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Why is this thread is still here?
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:22 PM   #295
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The reason you made that power is because Honda's heads are the best in the game. The blocks aren't anything to write home about.
Yup, glad someone here knows whats up, the blocks arent awful there just not bullet proof iron. I luckily have the best b head honda ever made so im greatful, the K's are even more amazing.

CKxx your right, my car weighs 2240lbs which is light enough to run 11.80's w the power i have, your friends car must be lighter, like 92 civic hatch cx maybe? Your friend is also a great driver, i kept spinning pst half track doing 14.1 at 109, my friend drove it and did a 12.2

end of the day all engines have pros cons, some are better than others, who cares, just love what u drive, my 280whp suby is slow but its my perfect daily driver
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:14 PM   #296
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Yup, glad someone here knows whats up, the blocks arent awful there just not bullet proof iron. I luckily have the best b head honda ever made so im greatful, the K's are even more amazing.

CKxx your right, my car weighs 2240lbs which is light enough to run 11.80's w the power i have, your friends car must be lighter, like 92 civic hatch cx maybe? Your friend is also a great driver, i kept spinning pst half track doing 14.1 at 109, my friend drove it and did a 12.2

end of the day all engines have pros cons, some are better than others, who cares, just love what u drive, my 280whp suby is slow but its my perfect daily driver
We have a LS/vtec b18 integra that made 500whp on 19psi with a pte 6262 and we're putting a 6262 on a k24 going in something a little bit lighter, and rear wheel drive right now.
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Old 07-17-2010, 08:21 PM   #297
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I helped a good friend of mine do a simple K20 build. A piston rod bottom end and nothing more than a simple port job and upgraded valves/valvetrain.

He's been making between 650 and 780 (pending the turbo setup) for the last 3 years. We are discussing tearing it down for an inspection and nothing less. Still not smoking a puff, except for when the old 35R took a dump...

Honda makes a great motor...subaru could stand to take some notes.
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:03 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by mxpunk View Post
a properly built is300 will cost just as much as a slowbaru. yeah you can bolt on a turbo and run low boost but it'll be just as much as a ticking time bomb as any other NA-T car. rebuild it w/ GTE pistons and you can make some power..more so w/ forged slugs but duh...

the difference is you'll make 600 hp on pump ALL day in any weather condition and it'll stay together, not so w/ the subie. yes to all you fan boys, the rwd sux0rz in the rain and your subaru will beat it in the rain, mud, snow,ice, etc ..but

that being said there are a few is300's making 650+ on the stock ecu w/ a built auto tranny.. INLINE ENGINES RULE
yea true... thats one of the reasons it wont be anytime soon
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Old 07-18-2010, 02:41 PM   #299
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but the 4g63 is 2.0 25% smaller and it perform a little better to bolt ons then ej257. So no i dont think there equal for 500hp or less. I see alot of 4g63s in stock format live just as long or OUTLIVE a forged piston ej257. Actually I take that back, a forged piston ej257 if built by cosworth or crawford will definatly outlive a stock 4g63. (6 bolt)I also noticed alot of kids put together there 4g63 in there driveways with cheap forged parts (eagle, wiseco) cheap in price not quality. And they dont machine half the stuff, they run those engine for 50000 Miles lean with full boost 90% of its life. So 4g63 are much more forgiving to clearances and and parts that arnt PERFECTLY square. A ej257 will only perform flawless if it flawlessly built. Whoever has been to the drags has seen evo and talons pullin 10's all night long. With a 18 year old driver and 3k in mods. But it still doesnt have style like us boxser ftw
I guarantee if the STi came with a TD0516G like the evo's do, it would gain hell of a lot more power with bolt ons compared to the teeny vf series turbos.

Evos and anything with a 4g really are so simple to make power on. **** i went high 11's with my gsx with just bolt ons, nitrous, and a tune. You won't EVER be able to do that in an STi.
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Old 07-18-2010, 04:10 PM   #300
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^^downsti did it with no nitrous, stock turbo. it's been done by others as well
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