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Old 07-04-2010, 01:23 PM   #51
Corinator
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Originally Posted by PAImportTuner View Post
Not similar, your friends DSM was pulling HARD on you in every run you got the jump til you keep letting off. If you both were in the same rpm sweet spot he would get you on the jump and pull away. In every video he was coming fast on you even this in car link I posted.

Couple of things..
Your car is lighter
Your gearing is tighter

here is you 2 racing on the drag strip, he killed you on traps. But there is no comparison.
Yeah you can't really compare two cars with the engines in them when you are only trying to compare two engines.

4G63 = Best for max performance
EJ257 = Best for daily driving due to having such great low end torque and a nice power band.
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Old 07-04-2010, 01:34 PM   #52
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IMO mod for mod both cars will make the same power.

Being fastest and quickest is not the same as making the same power.

The fastest EVOs are 5-speed and most of them are RS, people here are comparing a light weight EVO vs a heavy pig 6-speed STi.

A properly tuned EJ255/57 and well setup, will make about the same peak power and obviously more torque than the 4G63, mod for mod. The problem arises when we go to big turbos that require +30psi to get into the efficiency range, probably pushing 600whp+. At this point the aluminum cylinder cannot take the pressure, and the block start cracking and stuff failing. And also the big turbos required a high RPM that EJ255/57 cannot provide.

Again IMO a properly well setup and tuned subaru motor will go toe to toe with 4G63 to 500-550whp with only forged pistons. And a properly setup WRX or STi with a built 5-speed will go toe to toe with an EVO. Thinking about it, the cost of a WRX with built 5-speed will run very close to the price of an EVO 5-speed.
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Old 07-04-2010, 01:51 PM   #53
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but the 4g63 is 2.0 25% smaller and it perform a little better to bolt ons then ej257. So no i dont think there equal for 500hp or less. I see alot of 4g63s in stock format live just as long or OUTLIVE a forged piston ej257. Actually I take that back, a forged piston ej257 if built by cosworth or crawford will definatly outlive a stock 4g63. (6 bolt)I also noticed alot of kids put together there 4g63 in there driveways with cheap forged parts (eagle, wiseco) cheap in price not quality. And they dont machine half the stuff, they run those engine for 50000 Miles lean with full boost 90% of its life. So 4g63 are much more forgiving to clearances and and parts that arnt PERFECTLY square. A ej257 will only perform flawless if it flawlessly built. Whoever has been to the drags has seen evo and talons pullin 10's all night long. With a 18 year old driver and 3k in mods. But it still doesnt have style like us boxser ftw
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
IMO mod for mod both cars will make the same power.

Being fastest and quickest is not the same as making the same power.

The fastest EVOs are 5-speed and most of them are RS, people here are comparing a light weight EVO vs a heavy pig 6-speed STi.

A properly tuned EJ255/57 and well setup, will make about the same peak power and obviously more torque than the 4G63, mod for mod. The problem arises when we go to big turbos that require +30psi to get into the efficiency range, probably pushing 600whp+. At this point the aluminum cylinder cannot take the pressure, and the block start cracking and stuff failing. And also the big turbos required a high RPM that EJ255/57 cannot provide.

Again IMO a properly well setup and tuned subaru motor will go toe to toe with 4G63 to 500-550whp with only forged pistons. And a properly setup WRX or STi with a built 5-speed will go toe to toe with an EVO. Thinking about it, the cost of a WRX with built 5-speed will run very close to the price of an EVO 5-speed.

Last edited by mbtech; 07-04-2010 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 07-04-2010, 01:54 PM   #54
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^these 2 comments are why I believe so strongly in the destroked 2.34L EJ25's.
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:03 PM   #55
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I think it is also important to remember that we cannot confuse engine design with engine modification ability. The 4G63 has a superior head design and the intake runners in the head make huge power. The bore stroke ratio is also very square which also lends itself to big power. It is almost like Mitsubishi designed the engine to make huge high end power in the first place.
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:05 PM   #56
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^these 2 comments are why I believe so strongly in the destroked 2.34L EJ25's.
I believe the EJ207 is the way to go when they are stroked in order to square the ratio a little bit more. I love my 2.5l though. I daily drive it so the torque is nice.
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:36 PM   #57
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IMO mod for mod both cars will make the same power.


Yeah, no.

Two words: volumetric efficiency. You probably should understand how VE works before making statements like this.

After owning a 4G63 and an EJ25x, there is absolutely no comparison. None. The 4G63 wins.
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:40 PM   #58
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^these 2 comments are why I believe so strongly in the destroked 2.34L EJ25's.

I am putting together a destroked 2.35 for my car as we speak. Im hoping it can offer more reliable bearing life. Since it helps to unload the side forces however the 9000rpm kinda cancels that out. I think to fully take advantage of the Long rod destroke we need a min of 4mm long rods and a higher comp ratio since it helps reduce det. I know a guy whos running a 4g63 long rod with 10:1 pistons. at 20psi, but yea he runs alcohol injection. Im hoping I can run 10:1 comp with long rods and e85
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:57 PM   #59
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This is why im glad i kept my honda, when i want a top end 9000rpm car i just turn the key and drive it, ill build a 2.5 for my suby for the street though w a 400tq goal
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Old 07-04-2010, 03:00 PM   #60
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I am putting together a destroked 2.35 for my car as we speak. Im hoping it can offer more reliable bearing life. Since it helps to unload the side forces however the 9000rpm kinda cancels that out. I think to fully take advantage of the Long rod destroke we need a min of 4mm long rods and a higher comp ratio since it helps reduce det. I know a guy whos running a 4g63 long rod with 10:1 pistons. at 20psi, but yea he runs alcohol injection. Im hoping I can run 10:1 comp with long rods and e85
This will be insane! How are you planning on bumping up the compression so high? Custom pistons?
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Old 07-04-2010, 03:19 PM   #61
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Custom rods and custom pistons, Im talking to a friend about aluminum rods, I dont think its worth the effort, but if he can fo it for under 600$ ill do it. And the new aluminum alloy is not stretching like the old days...I guess old habbits are hard to forget.
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Old 07-04-2010, 03:25 PM   #62
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Are you just going to do a +2mm rod or something else with a thicker head gasket?
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:03 PM   #63
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Hijacked .
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:04 PM   #64
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2mm is all I can afford.

I love my subaru and would not have anything else but look at the 4g63
Ej257 is great cause more torque off the line. Ej207 is great cause its smooth up top
4g63 can make more power in 1 cylinder then ej257 does in foour lol that video is crazy


Sorry for the hijack
Theres a guy who pushing 2000hp in his 4g63 dragster.
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Old 07-04-2010, 04:48 PM   #65
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^these 2 comments are why I believe so strongly in the destroked 2.34L EJ25's.
It is not the displacement that allows higher boost or more top end. The rod to stroke on the EJ motors are not that bad, just as square as some Honda engines. Its the VE of the head and the cams in them.
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Old 07-04-2010, 07:11 PM   #66
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^The fact that the power curve is pushed to the right allowing the 2.34 EJ motor to make more peak power longer is what I like.
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:04 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Corinator View Post

Also the MIVEC is only on Evo 9s and is fairly useless past 500hp. I know this because I have a buddy whos Evo 9 MR is currently at Buschur Racing in Ohio getting a Built 2L engine...He is running a 280 cam and they can't advance it very far and barely makes a difference in spool or power. Some people even disable it.
uuuh probably not noticeable because his cam already has a retarded overlap
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:37 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15 View Post


Yeah, no.

Two words: volumetric efficiency. You probably should understand how VE works before making statements like this.

After owning a 4G63 and an EJ25x, there is absolutely no comparison. None. The 4G63 wins.
I completely agree. I own both a 2.5L WRX and 2- 4G63 platforms. No comparison. 4G63 takes mods much better and are they are cheaper. The MIVEC platform especially begs for cams and from a tuning aspect they love bumped timing. I find it funny people are saying "mod for mod they would be equal" but every time I see dyno charts from an event there are only a handful Subaru's breaking 300awhp. When you look at anyone who broke 300, they are mostly Evo's.
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:41 AM   #69
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uuuh probably not noticeable because his cam already has a retarded overlap
You try to advance the cam to reduce overlap at lower RPMs. Giant cams won't let you because valves get closer and closer to the pistons and exhaust valves.
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:58 AM   #70
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I am putting together a destroked 2.35 for my car as we speak. Im hoping it can offer more reliable bearing life. Since it helps to unload the side forces however the 9000rpm kinda cancels that out. I think to fully take advantage of the Long rod destroke we need a min of 4mm long rods and a higher comp ratio since it helps reduce det. I know a guy whos running a 4g63 long rod with 10:1 pistons. at 20psi, but yea he runs alcohol injection. Im hoping I can run 10:1 comp with long rods and e85
I know of a few cases where it's been working well since I sold them kits in back in 07 I wanted a bigger a EJ207 and to be able to keep our bearings alive at high RPM...I did do a lot of refinement and design work in piston (weight and crown design) and rod combo to shed weight.

I'm so glad that it is finally catching on

Last edited by Homemade WRX; 07-05-2010 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:01 PM   #71
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Everybody is comparing the 257 to the 4g63. I'm more curious to see how the 207 compares. On youtube with the japanese race videos where they compare stock cars around a track the Spec C has its way with the evo. I'm planning a 207 swap withen in the next 6 months but am hoping i will be able to turn my bugeye into a fullblown track monster. I am curious to the true power the 207 is capable of with some good gas and a good tuning.
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:04 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15 View Post


Yeah, no.

Two words: volumetric efficiency. You probably should understand how VE works before making statements like this.

After owning a 4G63 and an EJ25x, there is absolutely no comparison. None. The 4G63 wins.
you do realize a lot more goes into making power than simply VE, right?...ever thought about combustion efficiency and flame propogation in relation to crank angle? That cylinder pressure and when it pushes on the crank is a huge factor in making power. I don't know why everyone's favorite engine phrase is Volumetric Efficiency

It's only part of the picture.
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:06 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
you do realize a lot more goes into making power than simply VE, right?...ever thought about combustion efficiency and flame propogation in relation to crank angle? That cylinder pressure and when it pushes on the crank is a huge factor in making power. I don't know why everyone's favorite engine phrase is Volumetric Efficiency

It's only part of the picture.
...because it sounds cool. When you don't know what you are talking about, that is all that matters.
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:13 PM   #74
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Everybody is comparing the 257 to the 4g63. I'm more curious to see how the 207 compares. On youtube with the japanese race videos where they compare stock cars around a track the Spec C has its way with the evo. I'm planning a 207 swap withen in the next 6 months but am hoping i will be able to turn my bugeye into a fullblown track monster. I am curious to the true power the 207 is capable of with some good gas and a good tuning.
Maybe you can see it this summer i am currently running a fully built ej207 race cams,id2000 and s300 series turbo hoping for some good times down the 1/4 @36-40psi and 120oct

Ps Yesterday i trapped 127 mph on 20psi and 93oct pump


I will post slips in proven power thread later
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:15 PM   #75
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you do realize a lot more goes into making power than simply VE, right?...ever thought about combustion efficiency and flame propogation in relation to crank angle? That cylinder pressure and when it pushes on the crank is a huge factor in making power. I don't know why everyone's favorite engine phrase is Volumetric Efficiency

It's only part of the picture.
No, I had no idea that there was more at play than VE.

Lets talk about the aluminum vs iron block debate, how about that? Perhaps we should mention that the 4G63 doesnt have to be run pig rich to keep cylinder temps down, because its not laid on it side? Can we talk about cylinder head and cam design, and how the 4G63 is superior? Perhaps we should discuss transient response, and how the 4G63 and its turbo dont reside in different zip codes?

Of course I realize theres more to VE, but VE is one of the major players. Everything else after that is icing...
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