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Old 07-08-2010, 01:48 PM   #176
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I can't get my wiring harness to come back from Washington, so I'm bringing the car to it!! seriously. I'm ready for it to be done.
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:37 PM   #177
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I think comparing the 4g63 to the ej207 would be interesting. Unfortunately, it seems we would need someone from 207 land to give a realistic picture of how that motor compares to the 4g63, unless someone here has a lot of experience tuning 207's.

On paper I prefer the 207 to the 257, but I have a feeling the reason the 207 isn't available in the states could also potentially be the reason it may fall short to the 4g63. The *rumor* is that the 207 might not have made it here because it supposedly couldn't compete with the EVO power-wise using US craptane fuel, emissions probably played into it as well. Hell even the 257 equipped GD's were only meant to run on 93 octane fuel (91 was only supposed to be used in an emergency ). Does anyone know if the EVO's were also only meant to be run on 93?

Bottom line is we still can't escape the fact that the Subaru boxer engines are more prone to knock which doesn't bode well .
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:40 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deuce Cam View Post
Bottom line is we still can't escape the fact that the Subaru boxer engines are more prone to knock which doesn't bode well .
are more prone to knock when?

on the stock tune on 91??

on the stock tune on 93?

on a tuned car on 91? 93?


i think juan needs to put a 20g on his car and see what happens.

Last edited by Phatron; 07-08-2010 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 07-08-2010, 05:20 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
are more prone to knock when?

on the stock tune on 91??

on the stock tune on 93?

on a tuned car on 91? 93?


i think juan needs to put a 20g on his car and see what happens.
Let me re-phrase: the subaru boxer engine layout in general is more prone to knock than the general inline engine layout. The tune and fuel are only added variables.
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:13 PM   #180
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Yea the new mustangs are fast but they only go fast with susp, slicks, spray, a good driver which aint happening on the street. I can't even count how many 5-600hp cars i have wasted it on the street. Yea i only trapped 114mph which is what my buddy traps with his 50k vette...did i mention that was used as well? We all know big motors produce power but building a fast wrx earns more respect. I respect an evo with stock turbo running 11.0s I dont respect a mustang with 100shot running high 10s or a wrx with 35r running 10s Get my point? If your car aint running within 1/2 sec of the fastest times in the world with that size turbo, learn how to drive or go to auto x
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:01 PM   #181
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Respect, to some people it's more important.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:07 PM   #182
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Yea the new mustangs are fast but they only go fast with susp, slicks, spray, a good driver which aint happening on the street. I can't even count how many 5-600hp cars i have wasted it on the street. Yea i only trapped 114mph which is what my buddy traps with his 50k vette...did i mention that was used as well? We all know big motors produce power but building a fast wrx earns more respect. I respect an evo with stock turbo running 11.0s I dont respect a mustang with 100shot running high 10s or a wrx with 35r running 10s Get my point? If your car aint running within 1/2 sec of the fastest times in the world with that size turbo, learn how to drive or go to auto x


A fast WRX earns more respect?

Funny you should mention AutoX. The people who immediately spout "learn how to drive or AutoX" are generally the ones at the very bottom of PAX, after theyve been decimated by a 116hp Miata on street tires. Oh yeah, it generally tends to be... mine.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:10 PM   #183
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We should get together and race some time.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:12 PM   #184
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We should get together and race some time.
Any time you wish. I will probably miss the THSCC AutoX in Danville the end of this month due to clutch replacement, and I absolutely refuse to run Laurinburg, but I should be at Sanford in Sept.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:15 PM   #185
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Where the heck is Danville? Is there a track there?
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:19 PM   #186
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Where the heck is Danville? Is there a track there?
Virginia. We AutoX on part of the airport up there.
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:24 PM   #187
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Are the courses large and drawn out with pointer cones? It doesn't seem fair with my sense of direction and you having a Miata and all. But seriously, maybe we could do one of the ones in Wilmington or something, perhaps take this to PM's if you're serious about hitting some cones.
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:07 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealDealTarheel View Post
Are the courses large and drawn out with pointer cones? It doesn't seem fair with my sense of direction and you having a Miata and all. But seriously, maybe we could do one of the ones in Wilmington or something, perhaps take this to PM's if you're serious about hitting some cones.
Sounds like you are about to get yourself rocked by a Miata.



This message has been approved by the banana dance troop
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:51 PM   #189
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this topic has been beaten to death over the past 5 years.

The 4g63 is superior in every way once trying to make >350whp.

The ej will make more torque, but if your goals are >350whp 4g63 will win hands down in terms of reliability, repeatability, and reception to knock. The exhaust runners are shorter and the twin scroll stock layout wins.

The only discrepancy is what you want your car to sound like, and if you're trying to make maximum power you run el headers which make it sound like a honda anyways.

That being said I still respect subarus. Just would never own one trying to have 400whp again for a DD.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:32 AM   #190
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mine runs 12.0s and is reliable as can be, love it. Launch the piss out of it with stock trans, act street disc. Organic will glaze over before your trans goes. Auto x is fun and yea a slow ass miata can beat me around the corners. So what, how many times you gonna race another car around corners on the street? Never, I rest my case. Beating a v8 in a straight line from a dead start or roll on is more satisfying than auto x event. Racing in a straight line can be done anywhere almost anytime. Thats what makes it great. 0-120mph or staying in 2nd gear the whole time. Man thats a hard choice
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:49 AM   #191
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i have a TD06H SL2 20G 8cm right now for testing purposes, let me get that evo8 with evo9 mani/turbo a run. we both on E85. i just have a built EJ22T w/ 9.0:1cr
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:02 AM   #192
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ooops...
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:03 AM   #193
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i have a TD06H SL2 20G 8cm right now for testing purposes, let me get that evo8 with evo9 mani/turbo a run. we both on E85. i just have a built EJ22T w/ 9.0:1cr

oh thats all?
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:27 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
Mighty close to my build. I just have a better engine in it (my opinion ). Imagine a EJ207 but with a 4" bore, BIG custom Kelford cams, Precision 750 FMIC, BUT just a stock manifold and 35R for now
That's what I'd go with EJ wise to! Sleeved 2.4L ftw!

Quote:
Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post


but, will your ever finish it?
Of course he will, but by then the wrx/STi will be a flat 6 lol. Come on Homemade, you and Dom are building crazy destroked motors so lets see some numbers from you now! We seen what doms did with the ****ty BC 272's and it just made me want one of these motors even more!
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:35 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Deuce Cam View Post
I think comparing the 4g63 to the ej207 would be interesting. Unfortunately, it seems we would need someone from 207 land to give a realistic picture of how that motor compares to the 4g63, unless someone here has a lot of experience tuning 207's.

On paper I prefer the 207 to the 257, but I have a feeling the reason the 207 isn't available in the states could also potentially be the reason it may fall short to the 4g63. The *rumor* is that the 207 might not have made it here because it supposedly couldn't compete with the EVO power-wise using US craptane fuel, emissions probably played into it as well. Hell even the 257 equipped GD's were only meant to run on 93 octane fuel (91 was only supposed to be used in an emergency ). Does anyone know if the EVO's were also only meant to be run on 93?

Bottom line is we still can't escape the fact that the Subaru boxer engines are more prone to knock which doesn't bode well .
We didn't get the 2.0 motor because it was in better interest to offer the American market a car that produced more low end torque. The everyday person in the states prefers low end grunt than a crazy high revving power band.

As far as the EJ207 being superior, I think it's all in what the individual wants. Look at the JUN Hyper Lemon bugeye STi that JUN used to destroy Tsukuba. That car actually ran a EJ25 that revved to the moon, had ITBs, v mount and every other thing any subie crazed owner would want. What I'm trying to get at is, if the EJ207 is so awesome why wasn't it used on the greatest track Subie ever? I believe if JUN updated thier Bugeye it would run right with HKS' CT230R .

Last edited by domestic_abuser; 07-09-2010 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 07-09-2010, 07:33 AM   #196
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mine runs 12.0s and is reliable as can be, love it. Launch the piss out of it with stock trans, act street disc. Organic will glaze over before your trans goes. Auto x is fun and yea a slow ass miata can beat me around the corners. So what, how many times you gonna race another car around corners on the street? Never, I rest my case. Beating a v8 in a straight line from a dead start or roll on is more satisfying than auto x event. Racing in a straight line can be done anywhere almost anytime. Thats what makes it great. 0-120mph or staying in 2nd gear the whole time. Man thats a hard choice
On the street? Never. Somehow though, Im not surprised youre a street racing douchebag.

Oh, and Id love for you to tell Andy Hollis, Keith Casey and some others that AutoX isnt satisfying. The people who arent satisfied are the people who cant have fun with their car and/or the people who suck.
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:59 AM   #197
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oh thats all?
ok ok ... I have a few more...

The EVO dude is a buddy of mine. He got a good solid 11.8@117 with his setup. He pretty much has an EVO8 with EVO9 ex-mani and turbo, running E85 with 1000cc injectors peaking like 27psi tapering to like 17 up top? Very solid setup.

My setup right now consist of my built EJ22T (pretty much just a little more get up and go from a 2.0L)
custom headers, APS UP with custom EWG with a Tial V2 38mm, MBC, eBay TMIC, TBE, Modded dark blue injct. TGVless, custom tune.

I can easily change the EWG back to internal, boost just doesn't hit as hard with internal. But this would be more equivalent.
Few yrs back I was running a similar setup with an EVO3-16G-8cm on my EJ22T/EJ205 heads on pump gas and was pretty dead even with a EVO9 MR with TBE, FMIC upgrade, intake+tune. We both were on pump gas.

Having turbos of similar size does bring the power output of both cars closer.

Last edited by FuJi K; 07-09-2010 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:59 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
Having turbos of similar size does bring the power output of both cars closer.
This right here is the key. The Evo makes awesome power with few bolt ons because the turbo is bigger. If I put an Evo sized turbo on my V7 EJ207 then it'd probably make close to the same power on pump and E85 as well. Hell, I'm at 297whp on the factory vf30 and stock injectors now with a basic "stage 2" setup on an EJ207.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1987131
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:00 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
ok ok ... I have a few more...

The EVO dude is a buddy of mine. He got a good solid 11.8@117 with his setup. He pretty much has an EVO8 with EVO9 ex-mani and turbo, running E85 with 1000cc injectors peaking like 27psi tapering to like 17 up top? Very solid setup.

My setup right now consist of my built EJ22T (pretty much just a little more get up and go from a 2.0L)
custom headers, APS UP with custom EWG with a Tial V2 38mm, MBC, eBay TMIC, TBE, Modded dark blue injct. TGVless, custom tune.

I can easily change the EWG back to internal, boost just doesn't hit as hard with internal. But this would be more equivalent.
Few yrs back I was running a similar setup with an EVO3-16G-8cm on my EJ22T/EJ205 heads on pump gas and was pretty dead even with a EVO9 MR with TBE, FMIC upgrade, intake+tune. We both were on pump gas.

Having turbos of similar size does bring the power output of both cars closer.
Thank you
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:25 PM   #200
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mine runs 12.0s and is reliable as can be, love it. Launch the piss out of it with stock trans, act street disc. Organic will glaze over before your trans goes. Auto x is fun and yea a slow ass miata can beat me around the corners. So what, how many times you gonna race another car around corners on the street? Never, I rest my case. Beating a v8 in a straight line from a dead start or roll on is more satisfying than auto x event. Racing in a straight line can be done anywhere almost anytime. Thats what makes it great. 0-120mph or staying in 2nd gear the whole time. Man thats a hard choice
I'm definitely a lover of big power but you really shouldn't bash auto-x until you done it in a preped car and with a good driver. I come from Formula SAE and I love pulling 2'gs at 80 mph

I've also had the pleasure of riding along in some well prepped SM subies and they are a blast.

back on topic...I still say within reason, the same mods and money will have to be spent on either motor to make roughly the same power. Choose the CAR you like the most.

Last edited by Homemade WRX; 07-09-2010 at 03:33 PM.
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