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Old 07-09-2010, 03:20 PM   #201
Sti77
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[quote=FuJi K;31261526]ok ok ... I have a few more...

The EVO dude is a buddy of mine. He got a good solid 11.8@117 with his setup. He pretty much has an EVO8 with EVO9 ex-mani and turbo, running E85 with 1000cc injectors peaking like 27psi tapering to like 17 up top? Very solid setup.

My setup right now consist of my built EJ22T (pretty much just a little more get up and go from a 2.0L)
custom headers, APS UP with custom EWG with a Tial V2 38mm, MBC, eBay TMIC, TBE, Modded dark blue injct. TGVless, custom tune.

I can easily change the EWG back to internal, boost just doesn't hit as hard with internal. But this would be more equivalent.
Few yrs back I was running a similar setup with an EVO3-16G-8cm on my EJ22T/EJ205 heads on pump gas and was pretty dead even with a EVO9 MR with TBE, FMIC upgrade, intake+tune. We both were on pump gas.

Having turbos of similar size does bring the power output of both cars closer.[/QUOTE]

I did a quick search here and evom for '35R' and it appears that is true. However, it looks like it takes a lot more, primarily a built block, on the EJ and not so on the 4G63. At the upper limits, 600+ awhp, they both require built motors. It also appears that, as mentioned, you can run a lot more boost with the 4G63, upwards of 40psi with just E85. That said, I'm curious of the longevity. There are numerous examples of 500awhp EVO's that are driven to the track, raced, and driven back with no issues. The track AMS evo operated on the same motor for two years. A few guys in my area have had ~400awhp STi's that didn't last so long. Of course I'm sure there are examples of both.
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Old 07-09-2010, 03:23 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
ok ok ... I have a few more...

The EVO dude is a buddy of mine. He got a good solid 11.8@117 with his setup. He pretty much has an EVO8 with EVO9 ex-mani and turbo, running E85 with 1000cc injectors peaking like 27psi tapering to like 17 up top? Very solid setup.

My setup right now consist of my built EJ22T (pretty much just a little more get up and go from a 2.0L)
custom headers, APS UP with custom EWG with a Tial V2 38mm, MBC, eBay TMIC, TBE, Modded dark blue injct. TGVless, custom tune.

I can easily change the EWG back to internal, boost just doesn't hit as hard with internal. But this would be more equivalent.
Few yrs back I was running a similar setup with an EVO3-16G-8cm on my EJ22T/EJ205 heads on pump gas and was pretty dead even with a EVO9 MR with TBE, FMIC upgrade, intake+tune. We both were on pump gas.

Having turbos of similar size does bring the power output of both cars closer.
Kinda to my point, you run the same turbos but you have $$$ invested in a built motor vs $ in some bolt ons.
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Old 07-09-2010, 03:53 PM   #203
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The "what if" the subaru had the same size turbo is the GheY! because guess what? it comes with a small turbo. That is how they come and we're created by the Subaru gods.. No 2.0L HiRev for us in the USA.
We could play the same game for all cars.
What if Jettas had AWD and bigger turbos? Then they would be just as good....
It is what it is and 4G63 Evo9 is it
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:00 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by axion7606 View Post
The "what if" the subaru had the same size turbo is the GheY! because guess what? it comes with a small turbo. That is how they come and we're created by the Subaru gods.. No 2.0L HiRev for us in the USA.
We could play the same game for all cars.
What if Jettas had AWD and bigger turbos? Then they would be just as good....
It is what it is and 4G63 Evo9 is it
Your post would almost (and I'm being generous) make sense if the thread title was "STi vs. EVO," but it's not.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:06 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by axion7606 View Post
The "what if" the subaru had the same size turbo is the GheY! because guess what? it comes with a small turbo. That is how they come and we're created by the Subaru gods.. No 2.0L HiRev for us in the USA.
We could play the same game for all cars.
What if Jettas had AWD and bigger turbos? Then they would be just as good....
It is what it is and 4G63 Evo9 is it
Isn't it a bit early to be drinking?
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:14 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by axion7606 View Post
The "what if" the subaru had the same size turbo is the GheY! because guess what? it comes with a small turbo. That is how they come and we're created by the Subaru gods.. No 2.0L HiRev for us in the USA.
We could play the same game for all cars.
What if Jettas had AWD and bigger turbos? Then they would be just as good....
It is what it is and 4G63 Evo9 is it
WTF???

EVO Xs are slow heavy pigs that need iron sleeves just like we do
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:52 PM   #207
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WTF???

EVO Xs are slow heavy pigs that need iron sleeves just like we do
I never said anything about Evo X's that's a whole different story that would make you more sad about your purchase pride
(but you are right Iron block would be nice)
I think I said "4G63" which relates to the title topic.
I could repeat the same information that's already been stated on these forums about this topic from the past 4-5 years but I thought I would make it plain simple with a side of comedy..
Now back to eating some
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:59 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by juanmedina View Post
WTF???

EVO Xs are slow heavy pigs that need iron sleeves just like we do
Also if Evo X are slow heavy ass pigs. What does that mean your car is? because you cannot use weight as a excuse
Trust me... I see both on the daily getting builds and tunes
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:10 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by axion7606 View Post
Also if Evo X are slow heavy ass pigs. What does that mean your car is? because you cannot use weight as a excuse
Trust me... I see both on the daily getting builds and tunes
...............

Last edited by juanmedina; 07-09-2010 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:21 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axion7606 View Post
I think I said "4G63" which relates to the title topic.
:facepalm:

I'll spell it out. They are comparing the two motors: 4G63 vs. EJ25. They are discussing the results of modding those two motors with similar parts and using similar fuel. What they are NOT doing is comparing an EVO vs. STi as they are available in stock form. Do you see how that works?
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:31 PM   #211
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We didn't get the 2.0 motor because it was in better interest to offer the American market a car that produced more low end torque.
That might have played into it but it's also just a rumor. It would have to be something as simple as selling us on the displacement difference alone. The reason being is the current ej207 makes more tq. stock than the ej257, peak tq. that is. I have no doubt that the ej257 will have more tq. off boost, and perhaps under the curve.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:34 PM   #212
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I've had a wrx and sti both modded and currently an evo 9 modded and I can say that all mods being equal the evo does put out more power. My 20g sti had a lot more mods than my stock turbo evo but the evo is making 40whp and 20wtq more......
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:48 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axion7606 View Post
The "what if" the subaru had the same size turbo is the GheY! because guess what? it comes with a small turbo. That is how they come and we're created by the Subaru gods.. No 2.0L HiRev for us in the USA.
We could play the same game for all cars.
What if Jettas had AWD and bigger turbos? Then they would be just as good....
It is what it is and 4G63 Evo9 is it
except they are talking about turbos for 600+ whp. So, why are you talking about stock turbos?
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Old 07-09-2010, 09:54 PM   #214
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We didn't get the 2.0 motor because it was in better interest to offer the American market a car that produced more low end torque. The everyday person in the states prefers low end grunt than a crazy high revving power band.

As far as the EJ207 being superior, I think it's all in what the individual wants. Look at the JUN Hyper Lemon bugeye STi that JUN used to destroy Tsukuba. That car actually ran a EJ25 that revved to the moon, had ITBs, v mount and every other thing any subie crazed owner would want. What I'm trying to get at is, if the EJ207 is so awesome why wasn't it used on the greatest track Subie ever? I believe if JUN updated thier Bugeye it would run right with HKS' CT230R .

I was told by my tuner the ej207 never came to the states because of our gas quality. I believe that to be more likely as there are quite alot of cars today that are built or stock that are rev monsters (honda S2K, Mazda RX7, Toyota MR2)

With the JUN car you are talking about one of the premiere subaru builders. With out proper specs to that motor it isn't a good refrence.

What Heads did they use?
What Head work did they have done?

What Turbo/Intercooler setup they use?

What kind of oil system is installed?

What kind of fuel system is involved?

Their car is probably a frankenstein of all the best parts subaru has designed.

Bolt on to Bolt on or turbo swap to turbo swap, the 207 is a better comparison hands down. Better internals and way better heads.

The more displacement of course is better. But when you mate that with a pair of decent heads you are going to have a middle of the road motor.

I would like to see an EJ25 built block with a set of V8 heads with the combustion chamber CNC'd to the 257's specs. Piece that togethor with a drysump oil system, upgraded cooling system, 35r and a v-mount intercooler w/supporting fuel and all other mods. That would be a monster.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:38 PM   #215
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On the street? Never. Somehow though, Im not surprised youre a street racing douchebag.

Oh, and Id love for you to tell Andy Hollis, Keith Casey and some others that AutoX isnt satisfying. The people who arent satisfied are the people who cant have fun with their car and/or the people who suck.
Yea nobody races around corners together on the street. Nor do they race in groups in most auto x events around here. Its timed one car at a time in parking lot with cheap cones, bad chalk marks. Auto x is fun and requires great skill to get around the track but doesnt get my blood flowing like a good street or drag race. Just proving a point that racing in a straight line can be done anywhere and almost anytime. Thats what makes it so great. I like quick acceleration what can i say. All tracks are diff most of them are lame to me. I have not yet raced on a cool track and if i did i would want a car i can bang up a little bit and not worry about it after. You have to wait all week maybe a month sometimes for an auto x event. I can go street race a stang or camaro almost anytime. Auto x requires skill but when you guys brag about your times it cracks me up. You can make a small mistake and .5 seconds aint gonna kill you when u run 30 sec multiple laps. You make a mistake in a drag/street race, its more critical. So dont tell me I can't drive when i set the record for quickest wrx (vf52) in the world without flat foot shifting on pump/meth with fully loaded 09wrx. You think 12.01 is impressive wait till i get some good rubber on the car and the weather cools down a bit and i get frisky and maybe use flat foot shifting

Last edited by djc1827; 07-09-2010 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:45 PM   #216
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I can go street race a stang or camaro almost anytime.
Best time is when schools letting out in a school zone!
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:54 PM   #217
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Yea nobody races around corners together on the street. Nor do they race in groups in most auto x events around here. Its timed one car at a time in parking lot with cheap cones, bad chalk marks. Auto x is fun and requires great skill to get around the track but doesnt get my blood flowing like a good street or drag race. Just proving a point that racing in a straight line can be done anywhere and almost anytime. Thats what makes it so great. I like quick acceleration what can i say. All tracks are diff most of them are lame to me. I have not yet raced on a cool track and if i did i would want a car i can bang up a little bit and not worry about it after. You have to wait all week maybe a month sometimes for an auto x event. I can go street race a stang or camaro almost anytime. Auto x requires skill but when you guys brag about your times it cracks me up. You can make a small mistake and .5 seconds aint gonna kill you when u run 30 sec multiple laps. You make a mistake in a drag/street race, its more critical. So dont tell me I can't drive when i set the record for quickest wrx (vf52) in the world without flat foot shifting on pump/meth with fully loaded 09wrx. You think 12.01 is impressive wait till i get some good rubber on the car and the weather cools down a bit and i get frisky and maybe use flat foot shifting


Blah, blah record....
You sound like a broken record
Here's your trophy
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:50 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djc1827 View Post
Yea nobody races around corners together on the street. Nor do they race in groups in most auto x events around here. Its timed one car at a time in parking lot with cheap cones, bad chalk marks. Auto x is fun and requires great skill to get around the track but doesnt get my blood flowing like a good street or drag race. Just proving a point that racing in a straight line can be done anywhere and almost anytime. Thats what makes it so great. I like quick acceleration what can i say. All tracks are diff most of them are lame to me. I have not yet raced on a cool track and if i did i would want a car i can bang up a little bit and not worry about it after. You have to wait all week maybe a month sometimes for an auto x event. I can go street race a stang or camaro almost anytime. Auto x requires skill but when you guys brag about your times it cracks me up. You can make a small mistake and .5 seconds aint gonna kill you when u run 30 sec multiple laps. You make a mistake in a drag/street race, its more critical. So dont tell me I can't drive when i set the record for quickest wrx (vf52) in the world without flat foot shifting on pump/meth with fully loaded 09wrx. You think 12.01 is impressive wait till i get some good rubber on the car and the weather cools down a bit and i get frisky and maybe use flat foot shifting



It's time for you to trade your Impreza in on a new Cobalt.
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:36 AM   #219
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hold on, what were we talking about again?...
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Old 07-11-2010, 02:47 AM   #220
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I was told by my tuner the ej207 never came to the states because of our gas quality. I believe that to be more likely as there are quite alot of cars today that are built or stock that are rev monsters (honda S2K, Mazda RX7, Toyota MR2)

With the JUN car you are talking about one of the premiere subaru builders. With out proper specs to that motor it isn't a good refrence.

I would like to see an EJ25 built block with a set of V8 heads with the combustion chamber CNC'd to the 257's specs. Piece that togethor with a drysump oil system, upgraded cooling system, 35r and a v-mount intercooler w/supporting fuel and all other mods. That would be a monster.

I used the JUN car because the OP wants a +600 horsepower car. It's possible and was done with the 2.5 block. I assume it was built with all JUN parts in house as all JUN cars are.

I highly doubt the EJ207 coming to the states has anything to do with fuel quality. The US STi's were made to run on 93 which isn't offered everywhere in the states. The Rx7s, MR2s and even the s2000 were all cars offered long before the STi was introduced to the states and all ran on 91. So I think it's safe to say that fuel quality and rev limits are completely in different ball parks
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Old 07-11-2010, 02:54 AM   #221
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I used the JUN car because the OP wants a +600 horsepower car. It's possible and was done with the 2.5 block. I assume it was built with all JUN parts in house as all JUN cars are.

I highly doubt the EJ207 coming to the states has anything to do with fuel quality. The US STi's were made to run on 93 which isn't offered everywhere in the states. The Rx7s, MR2s and even the s2000 were all cars offered long before the STi was introduced to the states and all ran on 91. So I think it's safe to say that fuel quality and rev limits are completely in different ball parks
There is no 93 octane in the states? The Orlando gas stations must have been lying when I went then.

It is true that Japan has higher quality gas than we do, and EJ207s do run better on the higher octane. It's best to get a tune for an EJ207 for 91/93 octane.
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Old 07-11-2010, 07:00 AM   #222
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What are you talking about. Where does he say there is no 93 in the US?
What boosted motor doesn't work better on higher octane
Tune on the ****tiest gas in your area and have a measure of safety built into your tune.
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Old 07-11-2010, 09:52 AM   #223
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That Jun GDB Impreza runs a stroked 2.0L using the EJ25 crank. TD06H 25G turbine.
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:45 AM   #224
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there should be a sticky

yes your EJ Can make 340059 hp, after you hire a team of design engineers and have the motor put together in a climate controlled clean room and make sure everything is within .00000001 mm in specs

yes you can drop in a set of forged pistons and rods in a 4g63t, put some big turbo on it and have a half-assed tune and it will still outlast an EJ

whats the next arguement...13B vs EJ25??

WTF 13B SUXORZ DAMN ROTARY APEX SEALS ALWAYS WEARIN OUT!! BUT HAY..800 hp out of 1.3L is fine by me!!
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:57 AM   #225
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13B's do suck, next.
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