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Old 06-15-2002, 02:59 PM   #1
luxcar101
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Question WHat rear wings have downforce?

I think the STi one has it but I'm thinking how it would look with a uk300 front lip because that lip actually causes downforce and I would need one that compliments such aerodynamics.

What wings have downforce other than the FUGLY Prodrive/UK300 wing?

Lux.

PS: If your a vendor a price and shipping quotes would help.
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Old 06-15-2002, 06:31 PM   #2
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The STi is suposedly wind tunnel designed.....

But the 22b replica wing is adjustable and I'm sure can be dialed in for some additional force. Price is about $300-$400 not painted.
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Old 06-15-2002, 07:01 PM   #3
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Default so i've heard

I don't know guys, are you sure that spoilers really do anything on road cars? I read an artical a while ago written by a really well known racer (he races Porsche's) and he stated that cars being driven on the road with spoilers don't do a damn thing. It is just a way to price the car higher and make some extra money for the dealer. He also stated that even with the cars he races the spoilers don't do anything unless he reaches a certain speed (the speed was high but i don't really remember what it was). He was also saying that for any spoiler to work on a regular street car for example the WRX, you have to reach speeds of over 100 plus, and then just maybe, maybe if your lucky you will get the slightest bit of downforce but not enough to even help in handling.

The only spoiler that actually does anything for regular street cars are the front vents or front spoilers that go under the front bumper to take in direct air and help hold the car to the ground. I think 3000GT's the VR4 has this but i'm not too sure.

This is what i have heard, i'm not in any way saying i'm right, but just thought i would add some information i came upon.

-BlackMilk-
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Old 06-15-2002, 08:51 PM   #4
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Blackmilk, without getting into the debate of whether it works or not for street cars. The question was what wing provbides downforce? But I agree that a wing does virtually nothing for street cars going under 80MPH, let alone in a straight line down a road
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Old 06-15-2002, 10:09 PM   #5
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I got mine because it's about once a week I'm goin 130+ and I felt I should probably get one. Plus they look phat. Mines a 22b. Works nice. Haven't felt a major difference but I also haven't adjusted it for alot of downforce either.
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Old 06-16-2002, 01:50 AM   #6
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I remember reading that spoilers work at much lower speeds than wings do.
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Old 06-16-2002, 05:31 AM   #7
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The drag strip is probably the only place where you will go fast enough to get any use out of a wing. I think that your best bet would be a wing like the one on this Saleen Mustang



rather than one like the STi or 22B. Just my $.02
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Old 06-16-2002, 05:47 AM   #8
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I got a buddy who works at a local speed shop. He has an L with the little wing, you know the one. Anyway, he used to do a lot of driving schools and one day he replaced his wing with one off a RS and I asked him if he felt a difference between the two and he said that on the straight and especially in the sweeper he felt that the car was way more stable then with the L wing. It might not be much but it might help you in your decision making process.-Scu
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Old 06-16-2002, 07:13 PM   #9
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Funny you should ask. I was just thinking about this. I've been bitten by the track bug and the one I go to inparticular has a straight where the car hits speeds of about 115-120 mph before standing on the brakes for the big bend. I was thinking that getting a wing with some downforce would help.

So I searched and found some very useful information from Luke@TireRack and Simon Lines in re wind tunnel tests of Prodrive produts in this thread in the Supension forum:

http://i-club.com/forums/showthread....hreadid=100790

The more relevant portions are below:
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Old 06-16-2002, 07:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luke@tirerack
The Pro-Drive aero components I previously posted were tested in the Mira wind tunnel to determine their performance at speed and here are the results:
The test results were recorded as actual force and co-efficient of drag at a speed of 100mph or 160 kmh.
Drag hp at 100mph is the power required to overcome aerodynamic drag at speed. It should be remembered that drag increases as the square of speed, i.e. if the speed doubles then 4 times more power will be required to overcome aero drag incurred. Lift figures work the same way, i.e. 100 lbs. of lift @100mph becomes 200 lbs. of lift @ 150mph.
Most people can not feel a 10-15 lbs change of lift but, almost all driver do notice a change in lift or down force of 20 lbs. or more.
The WRX has a drag [power requirement of 60.5 hp @ 100mph, front lift is 59.2 lbs rear lift is 70lbs.
The addition of the O.E. rear wing has no effect on drag but reduces rear lift by 19.3lbs. and increasefront lift by 12.2 lbs. @ 100 mph. Adding the Prodrive front spoiler lip reduces the drag power requirement to 57.7 @ 100 mph and reduces the front lift 5.6lbs. but, the rear lift increases to 51.3 lbs.
The Prodrive rear wing was fitted to the car in place of the O.E. wing and the drag power requirement was 58.7 hp. Front lift 20.8lbs , rear 21.8 lbs. A very good balance.
Next the car was lowered 20mm and drag hp was reduced to 54.5 and front lift remained constant and rear lift was reduced to 14.3 lbs.
The conclussion:
By using the Pro-drive aero components the drag hp was reduced by 6.5 hp and the lift was reduced to 20.8 front and 14.3 rear a total reduction of 99.1 lbs.
Using only the rear wing produced 10 lbs. of down force in the rear and 75lbs. of lift in the front .... not safe !!!

I thought you would like to know

Luke
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Old 06-16-2002, 07:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Simon Lines
Hi Guys

The following (long) post is (some) of the mira report we commissioned. At the end of the day you are all free to doubt anything posted on I-club by myself (or anyone else - and I believe some doubt is healthy)

All I can say is read the report and make your own minds up, personally I do not see any point in making these things up, at some stage the truth will become clear then we would look stupid and everything we said would be in doubt.

Wind Tunnel Report

Subaru Impreza WRX
MIRA Full size wind tunnel
16 OCTOBER 2000

Testing new model Impreza in the full size MIRA wind tunnel

The car was set-up weighted to represent an average driver and passenger, with all interior vents closed and the tunnel boundary layer fence installed to give the most informative lift / down-force results. The installation of the fence tends to give slightly higher drag figures than a flat floor tunnel (Approx. 3%) but much more accurate lift results.

The test results were recorded both as coefficients and actual forces (loads) at a road speed of 100mph (160kmh)

Aside from experienced test or race drivers most will not be able to feel a difference in lift of around 10 / 15 lbs. however changes of 20 lbs. will be noticed.

The standard WRX has a drag power requirement of 60.5 bhp at 100 mph, front lift is 59.2 lbs. rear 75 lbs. These are average lift figures for a four-door saloon of conventional shape. (Runs 1 +2)

The vehicle was then tested at an angle to the tunnel airflow, 7deg and 15 deg representing typical motorway side winds. At 15 deg front and rear lift doubles the balance remains essentially the same though.

The addition of the low WRX wing has no effect on drag but reduces rear lift by 19.3 lbs. and adds 12.2 lbs. of lift to the front. Adding the new Prodrive front lower molding reduces the drag power requirement to 57.7 bhp and reduces front lift to 5.6 lbs. but rear lift increases to 51.3 lbs.

The Prodrive rear wing was fitted in place of the WRX low wing (initially set at 3-deg incidence). The drag requirement was 58.7 bhp. Front lift 20.8 lbs. rear 21.8 lbs. This is a very good aerodynamic balance.

The WRX was then lowered by 20mm front a rear to represent sports suspension. Drag bhp required for 100 mph was reduced to 54.5 front lift remained the same and rear lift reduced to 14.3 lbs.

CONCLUSION: -

The effect of the Prodrive aerodynamic kit is to reduce drag bhp at 100 mph by 6.5 bhp at the same time as lowering the overall lift from 59.2/75lbs (front/rear) to 20.8/14.3 (front/rear) a total reduction of 99.1lbs

NOTE: -

It is strongly recommended that the front and rear parts be used in conjunction with each other. Fitting the rear wing alone will give rear downforce of 10 lbs. and front lift of 75 lbs. at 100 mph, not a safe condition.

So there you go, hope it helps, if you have any Qís post them (PLEASE donít mail me itís getting crazy) and Iíll try to answer.

Cheers for now

Simon

edit - i will be at SEMA if anyone want to put a face to the name
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Old 06-17-2002, 11:06 AM   #12
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yup, read the above link. The stock wing has downforce.

-C
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Old 06-18-2002, 10:21 PM   #13
luxcar101
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Default WOW

This thing grew a life of it's own.

I would be content with the Prodrive rear wing also but it just so happens that thing is one of the ugliest formations of plastic/poly/fiberglass I've ever seen! It looks worse then the Mazda MP3 rear wing, and that alot to say!

I guess i shold just stick with the stocker!

Thanks again for all the info fellas, and tell my-man with all the wind tunnel tests that he gave me a migrane with all the coefficients!

Thanx again!
Lux
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Old 06-19-2002, 09:45 AM   #14
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Ok thats all great info but does anyone have the results of the STi package. The Lip spoiler and wing.....
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Old 06-29-2002, 08:34 AM   #15
Black_Magic GTI
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Or something custom like this ...

The pics are HUGE so I am only posting the links

Here is a pic of the wing
http://www.exvitermini.com/pics/0106rrs.jpg

& here is a pic of the undertray (I assume it acts as a wing on the bottom of the car)
http://www.exvitermini.com/pics/0106rru.jpg
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Old 06-29-2002, 12:55 PM   #16
luxcar101
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Default YO! Black_Magic GTI...

Those support(?) bars attached to the rear wing on that pic you attached, what are they called? Are they optional on every wing or are they a custom accessory. If I got a front lip spoiler, I'd want it to have that 'flat board attached under the car' look with just those things on teh front. I think thats a tight look. It looks very GT Touring.

Anyone have any info on them?

Lux
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Old 06-29-2002, 02:38 PM   #17
Black_Magic GTI
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Are you talking about something like this?

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Old 06-29-2002, 06:54 PM   #18
Albert
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stay rods
Ck any of the euro car tuners. VW's is a good starting point.

Doesn't that new Infinite G35 has an "undertray kit" that increases downforce?
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Old 07-07-2002, 02:39 PM   #19
luxcar101
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Quote:
Originally posted by Black_Magic GTI
Are you talking about something like this?


That's exactly it. Look at the attached pictures above my last post, they have them too.

I think that style would look tight on the WRX... am I wrong?

Lux
Les see if this works
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