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Old 07-08-2010, 08:00 PM   #1
Wrgb
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Default AC isnt cold anymore :(

Hey Guys,

So When i got my car 2 years ago, the AC was ice cold... almost immediately, every time.

Last summer the AC was warmer, but still cool

Now this year its barely cool (But it still does work a bit)
When i turn on the AC it takes about 6-8min to become... coolish.
Then as i drive at higher speeds the AC becomes slightly colder, and when at stopped it warms up again (Slightly).



What do you think the problem might be?
Any Recommendations on where to go get it fixed?
----If so... how much do AC repairs normally cost?
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Last edited by Wrgb; 07-08-2010 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:00 PM   #2
Splinter
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Sounds like it needs to be charged
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:13 PM   #3
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Duracool. I used the diy kit on my old car and it worked pretty well.
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrgb View Post
Hey Guys,

So When i got my car 2 years ago, the AC was ice cold... almost immediately, every time.

Last summer the AC was warmer, but still cool

Now this year its barely cool (But it still does work a bit)
When i turn on the AC it takes about 6-8min to become... coolish.
Then as i drive at higher speeds the AC becomes slightly colder, and when at stopped it warms up again (Slightly).



What do you think the problem might be?
Any Recommendations on where to go get it fixed?
----If so... how much do AC repairs normally cost?
exact same thing is happening to mine right now.

im going to discharge and recharge at work tomorrow. ill let you know how it goes.
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:43 PM   #5
tryallzee
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Richardson radiator & air conditioning 6050 196th st. 604-533-7600

They're in Langley give 'em a shot .
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:54 PM   #6
bender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrgb View Post
Hey Guys,

So When i got my car 2 years ago, the AC was ice cold... almost immediately, every time.

Last summer the AC was warmer, but still cool

Now this year its barely cool (But it still does work a bit)
When i turn on the AC it takes about 6-8min to become... coolish.
Then as i drive at higher speeds the AC becomes slightly colder, and when at stopped it warms up again (Slightly).



What do you think the problem might be?
Any Recommendations on where to go get it fixed?
----If so... how much do AC repairs normally cost?
chances are, there's a leak somewhere. don't waste your money recharging it unless you have it checked out first.



Quote:
Originally Posted by timbits View Post
Duracool. I used the diy kit on my old car and it worked pretty well.
you realize that duracool is basically propane, and it's illegal to mix refrigerant.

some reading for those interested:
Quote:
A Warning to Consumers About Hydrocarbon Refrigerants Common Sense in Protecting the Environment Without Endangering Safety

Lansdale, PA (PRWEB) April 27, 2005 -- Vehicle manufacturers, automotive parts suppliers, the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and other organizations are warning car and truck owners to avoid the use of flammable hydrocarbon refrigerants, which are being marketed on the Internet, at flea markets and swap meets, and in some service shops, but are not authorized for this use. In the United States, it is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants to replace CFC-12 used in cars manufactured before 1994. Hydrocarbon refrigerants used in newer vehicles designed for refrigerant HFC-134a will void the air conditioner warranty and may endanger service technicians. Leaking air conditioning systems charged with hydrocarbons pose serious risks of fire or explosion under the hood or inside the passenger compartment.

“The U.S. EPA urges vehicle owners to do their part to protect the environment and to ensure their own safety by properly servicing air conditioners with refrigerants listed by EPA and recommended by vehicle manufacturers,” said Drusilla Hufford, Director of EPA’s Stratospheric Protection Division. “Professional service includes electronic refrigerant identification, leak testing, leak repair, defective parts replacement, and recovery and recycling of refrigerant.”

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), the Mobile Air Conditioning Society Worldwide (MACS), and the vehicle manufacturers, automotive organizations and suppliers listed below agree that hydrocarbons are unsafe as refrigerants in vehicle mobile air conditioning systems designed for CFC-12 and HFC-134a.

"Existing mobile air conditioning systems are not designed to use a hydrocarbon refrigerant that is highly flammable and similar to what supplies the fire in your back yard barbeque.” said Ward Atkinson, Chair of the SAE Interior Climate Control Standards Committee. Nineteen states and the District of Columbia have laws prohibiting the use of a flammable refrigerant in mobile air conditioning systems. (Arkansas, Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Idaho, Iowa, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin, and the District of Columbia).

The motor vehicle service community and environmental authorities are working to phase out the use of CFC-12 refrigerants that deplete the stratospheric ozone layer and to reduce the emissions of HFC-134a, a greenhouse gas. “Professional service protects the environment and saves money,” said Elvis Hoffpauir, president of the Mobile Air Conditioning Society, “Hydrocarbon refrigerants are dangerous products being sold to unsuspecting consumers.”

EPA has found no persuasive evidence that hydrocarbons are safe to use as refrigerants in vehicles designed for non-flammable refrigerants such as CFC-12 or HFC-134a. EPA banned the use of hydrocarbon refrigerants as a replacement for CFC-12 under the authority granted by the Clean Air Act and has authority to take enforcement action to protect the public against companies violating the law.

Companies marketing hydrocarbon refrigerants point out that EPA lacks specific authority to prohibit the use of hydrocarbons to replace HFC-134a. They use this fact to argue that CFC-12 systems converted to an EPA-listed retrofit refrigerant such as HFC-134a can be safely converted to hydrocarbons. There is no evidence to prove that hydrocarbons are safe to use in mobile air conditioning systems designed for either CFC-12 or HFC-134a.

No vehicle manufacturer has endorsed or authorized the use of hydrocarbon refrigerants in current production mobile air conditioning systems and no professional or technical association has approved the use of hydrocarbon refrigerants. Vehicle warranties are voided for any air conditioning system that has been charged with hydrocarbons. Vehicle manufacturers only recognize HFC-134a as acceptable for use in their current mobile air conditioning systems. Easy identification by service technicians using sophisticated refrigerant identifiers will help avoid the risk of explosion and guard against the contamination of equipment when refrigerant is recovered and recycled.

“Every car has a manufacturer’s label under the hood that identifies the recommended refrigerant that is safe to use and that will provide reliable system operation.” said William Hill, General Motors. “Customers should only use the recommended refrigerant.”

“Manufacturers, owners and fleet managers of heavy trucks, buses, rescue and other specialty vehicles will want to take extra efforts to avoid hydrocarbon refrigerants that can endanger drivers and passengers.” said Dr. Alex Moultanovsky, Vice President of ACC Climate Control.

“Off highway and large commercial vehicles require substantially more refrigerant than a passenger car. Use the refrigerant designed for the system--stay away from hydrocarbon refrigerants.” states Gary Hansen, Vice President of Engineering for Red Dot Corporation.

"The U.S. Army operates fleets of armored tactical vehicles equipped with air-conditioning," said John Manzione, Chief of the Environmental Technology R&D Team at Fort Belvoir, "But we would never jeopardize soldier safety by putting hydrocarbon refrigerants in our vehicles."
http://www.sammemmolo.com/cc_hydroca...frigerants.htm
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:26 AM   #7
FunkMasta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loomin View Post
exact same thing is happening to mine right now.

im going to discharge and recharge at work tomorrow. ill let you know how it goes.
i have the same problem... though the air is significantly cooler tonight than it was on the drive home. i think sitting in the sun all day may be affecting its effectiveness?


a/c is still better than open windows.... but its not much better for me right now
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:53 AM   #8
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there's a garage in surrey on 132a st
no appointment necessary, just drive in.
machine checks for leaks etc all for 80 bucks.
takes 10-15 min
i do all my cars there
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:39 AM   #9
timbits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bender View Post
you realize that duracool is basically propane, and it's illegal to mix refrigerant.
At the time(5 years ago), I read that, but it didn't seem like a big deal. The car was way out of warranty and I had whatever was left in the AC lines purged at a proper shop first. I know there's a reason that hydrocarbon refrigerants aren't in widespread use, but this stuff is sold at retail automotive stores. And (according to them) it's refined, with addidives to decrease it's flamability? Duracool states that their thing auto-ignites at a higher temp than R134a, so I gave it a go.

Today, I would probably take it into an AC shop, but I was poor back then, this was a really cheap fix, and it worked well.

Last edited by timbits; 07-09-2010 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 07-09-2010, 11:43 AM   #10
timbits
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damn double post...
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Old 07-09-2010, 01:53 PM   #11
rs420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bender View Post
chances are, there's a leak somewhere. don't waste your money recharging it unless you have it checked out first.
How do you check for leaks without charging the system? if you have no refrigerant in the system, you cant use a soapy water to see it bubble anywhere.... unless there was a dye put in previously you can check for, you wont have anything to check. You need to pressurize the system and put a dye in the check for leaks.

Most shops will recharge the a/c and install a dye so you can have a working system and find out where its leaking out (if its leaking)
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs420 View Post
How do you check for leaks without charging the system? if you have no refrigerant in the system, you cant use a soapy water to see it bubble anywhere.... unless there was a dye put in previously you can check for, you wont have anything to check. You need to pressurize the system and put a dye in the check for leaks.

Most shops will recharge the a/c and install a dye so you can have a working system and find out where its leaking out (if its leaking)
right on the money

+1
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:23 PM   #13
Jeff54
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There's recharge kits for sale at princess auto...cheap...

give it a try...

and if was illegal to use, it would be illegal to sell


i hear they sell sponges that remove sand from vaginas tooooo....some people on here could use those as well

<3
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:42 PM   #14
rs420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff54 View Post
There's recharge kits for sale at princess auto...cheap...

give it a try...

and if was illegal to use, it would be illegal to sell


i hear they sell sponges that remove sand from vaginas tooooo....some people on here could use those as well

<3
I thought those sponges went off the market....

I would try the recharge kit, Jeff do you know whats in them? would it come with a dye already in it? might be an inexpensive way to charge up the a/c since its probably $100-150 at most dealers and 80+ at a regular joe's mechanic shopppp

I was serious tho, is there a way to check for leaks with no charge in the system? I dont know of any other way... Im here to learn for teh knowledge
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Old 07-09-2010, 02:46 PM   #15
Jeff54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs420 View Post
I thought those sponges went off the market....

I would try the recharge kit, Jeff do you know whats in them? would it come with a dye already in it? might be an inexpensive way to charge up the a/c since its probably $100-150 at most dealers and 80+ at a regular joe's mechanic shopppp

I was serious tho, is there a way to check for leaks with no charge in the system? I dont know of any other way... Im here to learn for teh knowledge
no dye, just a simple recharge kit....you plug it in, has a gauge on it...fill till the gauge tells you to stop....

it is illegal to discharge your refrigerant though....so i would pick one up for a few bucks, try it out, if it doesn't fix problem..take it to an a/c shop
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:07 PM   #16
bender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs420 View Post
How do you check for leaks without charging the system? if you have no refrigerant in the system, you cant use a soapy water to see it bubble anywhere.... unless there was a dye put in previously you can check for, you wont have anything to check. You need to pressurize the system and put a dye in the check for leaks.

Most shops will recharge the a/c and install a dye so you can have a working system and find out where its leaking out (if its leaking)
there are 2 ways of checking for leaks. you can either put the whole a/c system under vacuum and see if it holds vacuum or some shops put nitrogen in the system and check for leaks that way. if the a/c is leaking, you can also simply just look at all the a/c lines and see if there's any oily spots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff54 View Post
no dye, just a simple recharge kit....you plug it in, has a gauge on it...fill till the gauge tells you to stop....

it is illegal to discharge your refrigerant though....so i would pick one up for a few bucks, try it out, if it doesn't fix problem..take it to an a/c shop
the problem with the duracool stuff is that it contaminate your a/c system. if you want to do it properly later, you will need to pay to dispose of the contaminated refrigerant and the a/c will need to be cleaned out before you can recharge it with 134a

Last edited by bender; 07-09-2010 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:28 PM   #17
rs420
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^^ Yea, I knew about the nitrogen to charge it up, just never though of putting the system under vacuum to see if it holds or not. Same idea, just different way of finding the end result. Cool beans, learn something new every day
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:59 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by bender View Post
the problem with the duracool stuff is that it contaminate your a/c system. if you want to do it properly later, you will need to pay to dispose of the contaminated refrigerant and the a/c will need to be cleaned out before you can recharge it with 134a
i recharged mine with the autozone recharge kit when i first got the car 5 years ago...and it blew cold until the day i removed the A/C from the car (1 year ago)...

that was also in 40+ degree, 100% humidity arkansas weather....not this ***** 30 degree ****..lol

but for real, i had great results with it, apparently bender has had a bad experience with it (what happened anyway?), so your mileage may vary....
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Old 07-09-2010, 06:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff54 View Post
i recharged mine with the autozone recharge kit when i first got the car 5 years ago...and it blew cold until the day i removed the A/C from the car (1 year ago)...

that was also in 40+ degree, 100% humidity arkansas weather....not this ***** 30 degree ****..lol

but for real, i had great results with it, apparently bender has had a bad experience with it (what happened anyway?), so your mileage may vary....
don't get me wrong, the stuff works if all you're concern about is cold air. I just don't want people putting that stuff in their car and assume it's the same as 134A gas. I've come across a couple of cars where people put that stuff in their car because they had a leak in their system and then wanted it repaired properly after wards. trying to find someone who will evacuate the system and dispose of it was near impossible and those who did wanted an arm & leg to do it.
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:31 PM   #20
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So the dealer (Wolfe) wants 130, to check for leaks and refill the AC fluids. it will be more if they find a leak.

Ive been reading a ton and am getting very 2 somewhat contradicting results.

a) This is a closed system and should never need to be refilled... if the AC is getting warmer, you have a leak and you must get it fixed, and then refill.

b) This is a imperfect closed system and over time (>10years) the O-rings and such will allow some of the fluid to escape and the AC will get warmer. to cool the AC simply refill/refresh the fluids.
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Old 07-10-2010, 06:49 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrgb View Post
So the dealer (Wolfe) wants 130, to check for leaks and refill the AC fluids. it will be more if they find a leak.

Ive been reading a ton and am getting very 2 somewhat contradicting results.

a) This is a closed system and should never need to be refilled... if the AC is getting warmer, you have a leak and you must get it fixed, and then refill.

b) This is a imperfect closed system and over time (>10years) the O-rings and such will allow some of the fluid to escape and the AC will get warmer. to cool the AC simply refill/refresh the fluids.

both are somewhat right. it is an imperfect close system, with a bunch of different parts, put together to make the system. there are rubber seals between the pieces where the parts join together. over time, the seals will dry up and leak, which is why it is recommend that you run your a/c for a few minutes year round to keep the oil in the system circulating. this keep the seals "moist" so it won't dry up as fast.

if the a/c is not getting as cold as it was before, it usually means that you are loosing refrigerant, leaking out, which means you need to stop the leak before recharging it up again. it's like saying that my auto trans has leaked out all its oil and the car won't move, all I need to do is add more oil and the problem will be solved. obviously, if the a/c is leaking, and it gets recharged, it'll work, but depending on how bad the leak is, you'll be back to square one in a few days/weeks. leaks can develop anywhere in the system, not just the seals.

BTW, it is illegal for a shop to recharge an a/c system knowing that there is a leak in the system.
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:40 PM   #22
gt-[r]
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this thread is very helpful, i know nothing about the ac unit

i have a question though, how do leaks and cracks to the ac system happen? from normal driving or excessive use of the ac?

i notice my car ac isnt as cool anymore during extreme heat during day time, its a 3 yr old car... i dont think there would be any leaks in a relatively new car would there?
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Old 07-11-2010, 11:04 PM   #23
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you can't really use your a/c excessively. the only think I can think of is maybe a rock hit your condenser. that's the thing that sits right in front of your radiator. I know it's very common on GM trucks with rear a/c unit to have the lines break because they are exposed under the truck where rocks can get to them. 3 years is relatively new. my car is 10 years old and the a/c still blows cold. look under the hood at the a/c compressor and see if the center piece is spinning
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Old 07-13-2010, 06:20 PM   #24
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What are the High side and Low side Guage readings for a properly charged system while running. 02 Impreza.
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Old 07-25-2010, 03:45 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gt-[r] View Post
this thread is very helpful, i know nothing about the ac unit
+1

Mine is running poorly. In cooler temps, it is cold and dry. In hot temps it barely is effective. I'm definitely keeping an eye on this thread.
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