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Old 06-17-2010, 04:00 PM   #1
Cuddles
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Default PZEV SH Series - Header

What the **** fits this thing? Anything? Got an 09 Forester 2.5x PZEV and I really want that rumble. I wonder if I need flash the ECU or something if I take out the cats. OR should I buy a header and re-weld cats into it to keep it stockish. Am I SOL?
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Old 06-22-2010, 08:20 AM   #2
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Hey Cuddles. If these guys were any help they would tell you a few things:

PVEZ models differ in the sense that
a. they have different tuned ECUs to allow for better emissions and
b. they utilize precious metals in the CAT to filter out stuff and
c. the ECU is programed to make the engine hot quicker
d. 5 o2 sensors (from someone on here)

Hope this helps. Also, a standard WRX header should fit your car. I mean, the WRX cat-back bolted right up, right?

Last edited by Cuddles; 06-25-2010 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:02 PM   #3
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some people are not intersted in helping others sorry, glad you found your answer
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:11 PM   #4
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Yeah, this place sucks for Forester information. Stick with SF.org.
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Old 06-24-2010, 12:26 AM   #5
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You are SOL. Why? Because you don't have a turbo. Seriously, that iconic Subaru rumble is produced by the turbo cars, not the NAs.

The WRX header you mentioned will NOT fit your car due to the fact that you don't have an up-pipe (since you don't have a turbo).

To max out what you can with an NA, though, you're still somewhat screwed because of it being a PZEV. Ordinairly, you could change the sound of your car by changing to a Borla header and a loud exhaust. However, due to the PZEV-ness, you can't easily change the header. You have an unusual number and location of oxygen sensors. Your only real option would be to buy a Borla header, "old-style" cat pipe, midpipe, and muffler, and have custom bungs welded into your header for your O2 sensors. Then you'll need to have the car tuned (if anyone even supports the PZEV variant) to make it run properly.
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
You are SOL. Why? Because you don't have a turbo. Seriously, that iconic Subaru rumble is produced by the turbo cars, not the NAs.
Tell that to my 2003 N/A Forester with replica Borla UEL headers and a Prodrive axle back.

Turbo doesn't make rumble. It is the headers.
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:13 AM   #7
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You're right it's the headers and the shape of the turbo headers isn't even close to mimicked by any of the NA offerings.

A NA car with Borlas still doesn't sound as out of sync as a stock header on a turbo.
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Old 06-24-2010, 04:30 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebeephaha View Post
Tell that to my 2003 N/A Forester with replica Borla UEL headers and a Prodrive axle back.

Turbo doesn't make rumble. It is the headers.
there is actually a diagram on here from several years ago where someone in a thread explained it quite well and did the following

Basically, the UEL design of the turbo manifold is like so

--
------

And the Borla is like so

--
----

demonstrating that the stock turbo header is considerably more unequal then the aftermarket UEL borla type header. Plus tell your 03 it's lucky it isnt PZEV
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
You are SOL. Why? Because you don't have a turbo. Seriously, that iconic Subaru rumble is produced by the turbo cars, not the NAs.

The WRX header you mentioned will NOT fit your car due to the fact that you don't have an up-pipe (since you don't have a turbo).

To max out what you can with an NA, though, you're still somewhat screwed because of it being a PZEV. Ordinairly, you could change the sound of your car by changing to a Borla header and a loud exhaust. However, due to the PZEV-ness, you can't easily change the header. You have an unusual number and location of oxygen sensors. Your only real option would be to buy a Borla header, "old-style" cat pipe, midpipe, and muffler, and have custom bungs welded into your header for your O2 sensors. Then you'll need to have the car tuned (if anyone even supports the PZEV variant) to make it run properly.
This post seems pretty ill informed. I've heard plenty of NA rumbles. "Old style" header will not fit the SH model Forester. I dunno if you knew, but the exhaust route changed. The "old style" goes down the drivers side...my exhaust runs down the passenger side. Also, I haven't seen where the PZEV contains more sensors, can you provide a link? The information I put up there is the ONLY difference between PZEV and normal engines. Tuned? Why? Why is it any different than a NA motor other than a few little tweaks? Link me.

Lastly, that header will not fit my car? What are the guys with the 08+ 2.5i Imprezas running?

PS: The WRX 08+ sedan cat-back bolted up PERFECT.
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:50 AM   #10
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The Boxer sound is made by the engine and amplified by the exhaust method UEL means lovely Subaru Rumble EL means honda-ish sound for the H4 but a sexy Porsche-like growl for the H6 few .

PZEV isn't impossible you would need a few extra bungs welded in line to accommodate the sensors. The stock Turbo manifold is the best option BUT "we no have notchd frame" so that wont work unless you can weld cast iron.

If you can weld cast iron follow this route:
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...+manifold+2.5i

IF not follow this route:


Thats a 2008 Legacy 2.5i ( my 2008 legacy ) with the setup you desire those are Borla headers, MagnaFlow 94000 series dual bung ceramic cat, magnaflow resonator, midpipe and mufflers
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:51 AM   #11
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The Boxer sound is made by the engine and amplified by the exhaust method UEL means lovely Subaru Rumble EL means honda-ish sound for the H4 but a sexy Porsche-like growl for the H6 few .

PZEV isn't impossible you would need a few extra bungs welded in line to accommodate the sensors. The stock Turbo manifold is the best option BUT "we no have notchd frame" so that wont work unless you can weld cast iron.

If you can weld cast iron follow this route:
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...+manifold+2.5i

IF not follow this route:


Thats a 2008 Legacy 2.5i ( my 2008 legacy ) with the setup you desire those are Borla headers, MagnaFlow 94000 series dual bung ceramic cat, magnaflow resonator, midpipe and mufflers
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEE-OTTO View Post
The Boxer sound is made by the engine and amplified by the exhaust method UEL means lovely Subaru Rumble EL means honda-ish sound for the H4 but a sexy Porsche-like growl for the H6 few .

PZEV isn't impossible you would need a few extra bungs welded in line to accommodate the sensors. The stock Turbo manifold is the best option BUT "we no have notchd frame" so that wont work unless you can weld cast iron.

If you can weld cast iron follow this route:
http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...+manifold+2.5i

IF not follow this route:


Thats a 2008 Legacy 2.5i ( my 2008 legacy ) with the setup you desire those are Borla headers, MagnaFlow 94000 series dual bung ceramic cat, magnaflow resonator, midpipe and mufflers
****ING THANK YOU

I also just read where the PZEV has 5 o2 sensors vs. the normal 3 sensors. I need rumble...I already have the Magnaflow cat back and it made it sound so deep. And it just beckons me to get a header now.

Quote:
Well to bring you way up to speed a 100 % bolt on UEL header for the 2.5i platform is in production should be on sale in April it will bolt up using stock sensor locations and mid pipe
Where???
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
I also just read where the PZEV has 5 o2 sensors vs. the normal 3 sensors. I need rumble...I already have the Magnaflow cat back and it made it sound so deep. And it just beckons me to get a header now.
So now do you finally realize I'm right?

The reason I said "old-style" is that there are NO header options for the 2006 or newer cars that are bolt on. You have to fully convert to the 98-05 exhaust layout. However, nothing from that era is going to be able to accommodate your 5 O2 sensors (as I said before). You're going to have to have custom bungs welded in. Then, once you have things physically installed, you're going to have to have the car tuned because the ECU will freak out and bitch otherwise.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:04 PM   #14
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dudes, you are missing the point. This thread is about Partial zero emissions vehicles and not N/A rumble. No one said a N/A or even a late model N/A can't rumble. The point is that there is a considerable speed bump to doing the regularly pretty simple install due to the sensors.

I live in California and My Audi is PZEV.. performance parts for my car have to have addition pieces as well.. pain in the butt, but fact.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audi20Tdriver View Post
This thread is about Partial zero emissions vehicles and not N/A rumble.
Read the first post again. Then go "oops, I was a dumbass"
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:11 PM   #16
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bro.. re read mine and then do the same.. I meant PZEV specific vs can an N/A rumble.. it's no Sh** a N/A can rumble. Then you got the beephaha and gee otto with thier show and tell. They are not PZEV. Most aren't.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:15 PM   #17
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For the third time from me and who knows from Gee:

THERE ARE NO EXISTING PZEV EXHAUST OPTIONS.


To modify the PZEV exhaust system, you're doing custom fab work.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:18 PM   #18
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word, not to mention what they would do to you in parts of California if they found you had modified the PZEV system with aftermarket products. Maybe the kids are cooler in the NE.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
I need rumble...
Lol...you need food. You need water. The last thing that a human would need is the boxer rumble...which is actually caused by poor exhaust tuning, and will hurt your performance.

BTW, my car with el sounds nowhere like a raspy Honda. You want some of the rumble, then put a resonator on you midpipe. Cheaper and less headache.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
****ING THANK YOU

I also just read where the PZEV has 5 o2 sensors vs. the normal 3 sensors. I need rumble...I already have the Magnaflow cat back and it made it sound so deep. And it just beckons me to get a header now.



Where???
Mike @ rallisport had life happen to him
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:44 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Audi20Tdriver View Post
. Then you got the beephaha and gee otto with thier show and tell. They are not PZEV. Most aren't.

WTF are you talking about
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:26 PM   #22
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is your legacy PZEV?
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
So now do you finally realize I'm right?
Yessa masta. Please forgive me...no whips tonight!

Quote:
Originally Posted by flightwatch View Post
Lol...you need food. You need water....
You sir, are delusional. And probably already have rumble so it is no longer a priorty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flightwatch View Post
...BTW, my car with el sounds nowhere like a raspy Honda. You want some of the rumble, then put a resonator on you midpipe. Cheaper and less headache
A resonator eh? Link me to some kind of write up about why it adds or just tell me? I thought for sure the resonator was added to kill some sound and drone...not to give it rumble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GEE-OTTO View Post
Mike @ rallisport had life happen to him
God I hate that thing called life....sometimes.

Last edited by Cuddles; 06-24-2010 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post

PS: The WRX 08+ sedan cat-back bolted up PERFECT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
To modify the PZEV exhaust system, you're doing custom fab work.
Please read above.
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Old 06-24-2010, 05:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuddles View Post
Please read above.
Ohk lets clear this up.

The Imprezas are not as simple 08+ will bolt up fine btwn the two models, but on the 02-07 Impreza's the mid pipe has to be extended and rotated about 4" to mate up properly. On a Legacy (2006+ forward) the Catback will bolt up no problem btwn the turbo and the non turbo. On the foresters the 08+ will bolt up btwn the two models.


The catback WILL NOT GIVE YOU THE BOXER RUMBLE with a STOCK N/A MANIFOLD.

That guy with the EL has an exhaust that sounds like this

or this

Not too bad these two videos are of STOCK manifolds and aftermarket Catbacks

Here is the OBX EL header with a stock catback


Here is a video of the full progression


And here is a 2007 Impreza with a WRX manifold modified to fit


Now the disconnect seems to be that you think a CBE will solve your rumble affinity, it will not unless youre a EJ22T, EJ205/7, EJ255/7 owner or a boosted EJ222, EJ251, or a few rare boosted EJ253's. You will need a UEL header and like willitay stated convert to a 98-2005 style exhaust layout or Custom fab a header or Modify a WRX/LGT/STi/OBX/FXT stock cast iron or aftermarket manifold.

The El has a different sound when mated to the right CBE is nice and I like it, like willitay stated EL provides the most gains in all aspect except sound which is subjective. No N/A UEL will sound as good as a Turbo and no H4 EL will every come close to remotely sounding as good as this:

or



So PZEV or not as long as you are N/A and 2006+ Impreza, Legacy, Outback, Forester you are going to have to either do as willitay and I have stated, about 20 times now, and convert or as I and other have done modify something to fit. PZEV guys will have to add additional sensor bungs to the mix.
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