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Old 07-12-2010, 10:08 PM   #1
Audiosavvy
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Angry P0335, cleaned/checked CPS, replaced starter, still not wanting to start

Ok, I have done more than a few hours of research on this topic. I have an 02 WRX. Yes, it has a built stroker, but since everything but the internals are stock, I feel that the 2.0 factory powertrain tech forum is the best spot for this.

C/N at the bottom....

A few months ago, as the temps started to warm up, my car inexplicably started not starting (so to speak). When the car was cold, such as in the morning or after sitting all day, it would fire right up. However, when warm, sometimes it wouldn't want to start. I would hear the starter click as I turned the key (only one click) but nothing else. At first it would take only a few turns of the key (clicking each time) for it to fire up.

Then it slowly got worse. Keep in mind that it didn't ALWAYS do this, only about 1/4 of the time, sometimes less. Then it not only became more consistent, but also took more turns sometimes to start up. It got to where I might sit there turning the key over and over more than 50 times. But sometimes it would only take 2, and sometimes the problem wouldn't exist.

Most often it would throw a P0335 (crank position censor circuit malfunction). My research said that it was likely the wiring to said sensor, the connection, or a dirty sensor. I cleaned the sensor and checked the wiring. Same problem, though it seemed to help slightly for a little while.

Next I checked and re-checked all grounds, even upgraded ones that I'd already upgraded before. They are all perfect. Still the same problem.

Then I checked the voltage to the starter, as well as the connections- perfect.

Then I replaced the starter. Not only do I still have the same problem, it's actually worse now.

My next step (doing it in the morning) is to clean the IACV and replace the gasket. I can't see how this matters, but it came up in my research, and is a simple deal (and may help with other areas). The battery (Optima RedTop) seems to be in great condition and the connections could NOT be tighter.

C/N- car doesn't want to start, throws P0335, takes many turns of the key sometimes. Cleaned/checked CPS and wiring to it, replaced the starter/solenoid, checked all wiring, checked and re-checked all grounds, made sure voltage and connections were all good. Problem still there

I'm at a loss right now as to what else the problem could be, but it's really ****ing aggravating. Any help or insight is appreciated.

Brandon
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Old 07-12-2010, 10:31 PM   #2
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Checked the sensor and connector wiring for continuity? Does the crank sensor show AC voltage as the trigger goes by?
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Old 07-12-2010, 10:49 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldturbo View Post
Checked the sensor and connector wiring for continuity? Does the crank sensor show AC voltage as the trigger goes by?
I just today bought a new test-light to be able to test continuity. I was only able to check the integrity of the connections themselves before.

Should it show AC voltage as it's triggered?

Since the car is still hot, I have to wait until morning to rip the alternator back off
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:01 PM   #4
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This morning I cleaned the IACV and replaced the gasket. I didn't mess with the CPS again because I wanted to see if that would solve the problem. I also went back to my other key (ignition key) just to see what happened. Seems like a clean IACV helps (and improved driveability quite noticeably) but hasn't solved the problem.

Tomorrow I pull the alternator again and check the wiring.


Any other ideas outside of that?
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:12 PM   #5
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Just one click, retry click, retry click etc, then start? Could also be a dead spot on the starter. As far as P0335, I dunno
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:42 PM   #6
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The code has nothing to do with it. A bad crank sensor will cause a crank-no-start condition, not a no-crank. There is no ECU control of the starter, it's a fairly simple system.
You've looked at the battery terminals? A bad connection between the post and clamp can do this without other symptoms.
Check the clutch interlock switch and relay, and the starter kill relay of the security system if you have one. You can follow the path in the wiring diagram of the FSM.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:44 PM   #7
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When you get that click in the starter it usually means the solinoid contacts inside the starter need to be replaced. That itself is pretty cheap. However, your p0335 problem is strange indeed. The only thing I can suggest is to try and swap out the crank sensor with a someone elses. Or you may very well have a malfunctioning cam sensor. On my old RS I had forgot to plug my crank sensor in fully and it thew a code for the cam sensor. The car would run and drive but it would stall out from time to time. I'd check your cam sensor. I hope this helps.
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoreo View Post
Just one click, retry click, retry click etc, then start? Could also be a dead spot on the starter. As far as P0335, I dunno
That's exactly what it does. I have a very tough time believing that the starter itself could be the problem, since I put in a new (used, but in perfect condition) starter and the problem did not change.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulder View Post
The code has nothing to do with it. A bad crank sensor will cause a crank-no-start condition, not a no-crank. There is no ECU control of the starter, it's a fairly simple system.
You've looked at the battery terminals? A bad connection between the post and clamp can do this without other symptoms.
Check the clutch interlock switch and relay, and the starter kill relay of the security system if you have one. You can follow the path in the wiring diagram of the FSM.
Yes, I checked the battery terminals. They could not be more snug. From my car audio background, that's ALWAYS been the first thing I check, and my battery terminals are stupid solid

The starter kill relay on my alarm is tied in such that the starter won't even click, because the interrupt is between the steering column and the starter, disallowing current to even get that far.

Could you give a little more info on how to tarck down the clutch interlock switch and relay? If it helps, if I hold my foot on the clutch, but just use the key on/off/on/off/on/off, it eventually starts. It does the exact same thing if I hold the key in the on position and just press the clutch a million times.


Thanks!
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Old 07-13-2010, 05:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiosavvy View Post
Could you give a little more info on how to tarck down the clutch interlock switch and relay? If it helps, if I hold my foot on the clutch, but just use the key on/off/on/off/on/off, it eventually starts. It does the exact same thing if I hold the key in the on position and just press the clutch a million times.


Thanks!
Still sounds like a dead spot to me. But dead spots shouldn't happen as frequently as you're saying it's happening..... hmmm......
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Old 07-13-2010, 11:30 PM   #10
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Check your fuses?? maybe something went poo

I had the SBF #4 go out on me last year while driving on the highway
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:45 PM   #11
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All fuses checked and re-checked, all are good.


I still never got to take the alternator off, but if what Mulder says is true, it seems that the CPS and its wiring are NOT the culprit......


This is really aggravating....
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:51 PM   #12
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You figure this out yet?
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:38 PM   #13
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Well....?
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiosavvy View Post
All fuses checked and re-checked, all are good.


I still never got to take the alternator off, but if what Mulder says is true, it seems that the CPS and its wiring are NOT the culprit......


This is really aggravating....
I agree with Mulder on the CPS. The ECU 'believes' the motor should be turning over and is looking for the crank position pulses, but never reading any feedback--hence the code.

If you're getting voltage to the starter (and assuming the starter and clutch switch grounds are good) there are two possibilities:

1. There is too much friction on the crank and the starter can't turn it over.

or

2. Your battery is the culprit.


I'm betting on #2.

Last edited by Haelan; 07-29-2010 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:16 PM   #15
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do we have any resolution to the issue?

Matt
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:44 PM   #16
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Did you ever resolve this issue or figure out what was going on?

I am having the same exact problem. The starting issue has been going on for about a month and a half now and it seems to be related to temperature. I just recently got the CEL after being stuck at a gas station pump after a good 10 minutes of trying to start the car. I'm also running a built 2.0.

Thanks.
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:28 PM   #17
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I'm still having the same problem. Nothing has changed. It's really aggravating
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haelan View Post
2. Your battery is the culprit.


I'm betting on #2.

The battery is in great shape. And I don't see how it could be the battery if sometimes it starts after literally 100+ turns of the key. How could the battery be bad and somehow work better after 100+ turns?
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:59 AM   #19
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Having the same problem, same symptoms. Checked the CPS, terminals, alternator charging system..

But the previous owner has a viper alarm installed... I'm going to be looking into that wiring as well as the clutch relay...

Just wanted you to know there is someone out there with the same problems.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:02 PM   #20
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I as well am having the same issues with the exception being the car will turn over all the time, it just won't start all the time. I find if it's sitting for 30min to 2.5 hours, it SOMETIMES just won't start. Generally when the motor is cold or really hot, it has no issues starting. But when it's 'warm', the motor will turn over with tons of juice, not start and throw a P0335 code. I've ordered a new sensor ($175) and hope it will fix it. I highly doubt it though. This sounds like a really stupid electrical issue.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:14 PM   #21
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It could be an input ECU issue. If you check the pulses with an oscilloscope going into the ECU and they're normal--that would be my bet.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:12 PM   #22
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make your your battery is at good voltage and buy a NEW starter.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:34 PM   #23
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Did you ever check the clutch switch or the starter interlock relay? (it's the top relay in the block by the fuse panel (behind the coin tray))
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Old 01-12-2011, 05:54 PM   #24
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what was the fix?
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:37 AM   #25
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I had similar symptoms on my '02 where I would turn the key and sometimes it would make nasty clicking noises and sometimes nothing. Other times it would start just fine. I tracked it down to my negative battery cable. Mine was still tight, but it was so corroded through that there wasn't enough good metal on metal contact. I would suggest taking it off and looking at how the battery end looks. My positive was also somewhat corroded and needed cleaned.

A new negative cable and I have been trouble free since. May not be it, but it is worth a shot. Sure beats push starting the car like I had to and parking downhill just in case I was by myself for a couple days until the cable came in, hahahaha.
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