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Old 11-24-2010, 03:08 PM   #1
rsg9115
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Default help n/a build

hi i'm planning on doing the 2.5/2.2 high compression hybrid, i have a set of 2.2 sohc single port heads from my 96 wagon, i'm picking up a low miles 2.5i(is this a good block to use for this its from an 06 i think. what would my estimated cr be?). i'm planning on getting the heads p&p and my cams done by delta i'm thinking torque grind but i'm not positive, i was also thinking about upgrading my valvetrain? but not sure, i'm thinking it'll b very expensive. what else should i upgrade? oil pump, fuel pump/system? what would be recommended for my exhaust? thanx for the help and suggestions advice would be great!
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:53 PM   #2
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Your compression ratio with that set-up should be about 11.3:1.
You are going to need to upgrade fuel pump, injectors, headgaskets from Cometic(specifically for that combo), and something to tune with. Exhaust should be 2.25in for N/A.

I upgraded to a WRX/Sti oil pump. A WRX oil cooler and waterpump assy.
I am also running on E85.

You can get a lot more info on RS25.com for naturally aspirated builds.
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:11 PM   #3
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Also, if you end up using the 2.5i heads to take advantage of the AVLS, your only cam option is the torque (1000) grind as that is the only grind that Delta does for us. You can also get the cams cheaper through Rallitek, but if your going to be doing head work, you might want to look at their performance heads that are already assembled.
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruh roh View Post
You are going to need to upgrade fuel pump, injectors
Are you sure about this part? I don't recall seeing this in the HCF thread. I'm running mine on stock injectors and an EA82 fuel pump. My block is an EJ25D, not 2.5i, but I don't see that mattering for fueling.

Jacob
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:49 PM   #5
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which block is a better choice 2.5i or ej25d?
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Old 11-24-2010, 06:49 PM   #6
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Are you sure about this part? I don't recall seeing this in the HCF thread. I'm running mine on stock injectors and an EA82 fuel pump. My block is an EJ25D, not 2.5i, but I don't see that mattering for fueling.

Jacob
ok.. poor choice of words on my part. I just recommend it. I needed the injectors and pump for E85. Also, I have quite a bit more work done than just throwing 2.2 heads on a 2.5

I am certainly not an expert on these hybrids
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:03 PM   #7
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i have the same set up working on but its gonna be phase II 2.2 heads on phase II 2.5 forester block. probably get new rings and bearings and just slap the heads might also put the 2.5 cams on the 2.2, nothing else crazy stock everything even intake, we'll see , i just hope this hybrids are reliable
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Old 11-24-2010, 08:06 PM   #8
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I'm running what you plan right now:
P&P heads (new valves)
Delta torque cams
Ej251 short block: balenced crank, new rings, bearings & pistons
Sti 10mm oil pump
Modded oil pan
Manifold spacers
1step colder plugs
Hybrid cometic gasket
OBX EL headers, high flow cat, obx resonator, 18" resonator 2.25" midpipe vibrant axleback

The ecu / fuel system is stock from my 97, it runs great

I've been doing some logging, the 2.2 ecu runs the hybrid just fine( I'm going to fine tune mine via a fpr while on a dyno just in case )

Try to get a my97-98 intake mainfold they flow better than the pre97 ones

Last edited by grafton; 11-24-2010 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:29 AM   #9
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thanx everyone for all the help so far.

ok ill probably upgrade my oil pump for now, maybe fuel pump and injectors later if needed.

grafton, where did u get the manifold spacers and how did u mod you oil pan?, also how does it run all together i see you also are useing 1 step colder plugs, im assuming to fight det. what cr is your engine running on and how is it dailydriver wise? thanx.

also im still curious which block is a better choice, pros cons?(2.5i, ej25d)

lastly what is the part number for the correct head gaskets or a link thanx again
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:33 AM   #10
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do more reaserach into how well those 2.2 heads flow, especially the single port ones. the loss of flow efficiency may outweigh the performance benefit of the compression bump. And tuning is necessary, so if you are not up to learning the trade, don't already know how it will cost several hundred $ to get it running reliably.
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Old 11-25-2010, 08:14 PM   #11
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well if by trade you mean automotive i know the trade very well, and these guys that have done it, are proof its not quite as complicated, i have a decent budget and im doing everything the right way, and i heard the heads i have, the ports are slightly larger so with sum good p&p im sure theyll work fine if not i can always get new 1's

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceFaceXC View Post
do more reaserach into how well those 2.2 heads flow, especially the single port ones. the loss of flow efficiency may outweigh the performance benefit of the compression bump. And tuning is necessary, so if you are not up to learning the trade, don't already know how it will cost several hundred $ to get it running reliably.
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:03 PM   #12
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hey i was wondering if anyone knows if you can swap all the pulleys from an ej22 block to the 2.5i or do i need all new ones because the block i picked up is just a shortblock thanx

and if any1 has the part number for that head gasket 2.5/2.2 thanx
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsg9115 View Post
which block is a better choice 2.5i or ej25d?
Assuming it bolts up like the older blocks, then I'd go for the 2.5i block based on:

-It's sitting on at least 10 years more engineering/technology/development.
-Its bearings are better.
-The internals are stronger (I think).

Jacob
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Old 11-30-2010, 05:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renob123 View Post
Assuming it bolts up like the older blocks, then I'd go for the 2.5i block based on:

-It's sitting on at least 10 years more engineering/technology/development.
-Its bearings are better.
-The internals are stronger (I think).

Jacob
ya i was thinkin the same thing, i didnt know about the bearings though thanx
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:59 AM   #15
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the manifold spacers are from grimmspeed
the colder plugs are to help prevent detonation but i don't know if they were necessary, but i do a lot of cruising which leads to higher plug temps so i figured it was a good idea

i added some holes to the baffles to help it drain back to the pickup quicker/easier to help prevent oil starvation when autocrossing.
there is an oil pan thread on here somewhere I think the 06-07 pan is the "best" but i'd need to search for the thread to give you a good answer

According to the math i am sitting around 12:1 but it might be lower, possibly as low as 11.5:1

as for the daily driving it's still just as livable as the old 2.2 was. just now she drinks from the finer end of the pump (93 octane) the only big issue I had was the exhaust was a bit too loud for my tastes with just the stock midpipe and obx resonator.

my powerband starts around 2k and really ramps up past 2.7k, there is a real jolt when above 2500 and you suddenly drop the hammer, a real smile generator

as for numbers my 2.2 with headers could get a 9.5 second 0-60 time
the new motor got me to about 6.5 seconds with a crappy launch I figure I could get 6.25 with a ideal conditions, not crazy fast but enough to give a stock 2L wrx a run for it's money in the straits and I'm willing to bet it'll own a 2L on an autox course due to the lack of lag
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:14 AM   #16
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ok well i planned on p&p'n my 2.2 single port heads but idk if im going to be able 2 now but i could possibly get my hands on a pair of 04(i think) sti heads what would i have to do to make them work?(what would my compression ratio be if anyone knows?) im sure the flow i would gain would make up for w.e. loss in comp. i have unless its to much. any advice would be great thanx
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:45 PM   #17
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you'd need the sti manifold and related sensors/wiring and the flow difference wouldn't make up for the drop in compression; you'd drop below the stock compression...

the benefit of the 2.2/2.5 hybrid is the lack of wiring.
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:18 PM   #18
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oh ya i want as little wiring as possible, now how much of a difference do the single port ej22 heads have to the dual port, would it be worth finding some dual port heads or should i just use my single ports

and thanx again for all the help
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:34 PM   #19
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Default help again lol

ok i got busy for awhile, but i picked up a pair of dohc heads but there missing cams and cam gears and cam bearings and mayb summin else. so im thinking of going back to my 2.2 heads i found sumone i know that may be able 2 pnp my heads i wanna send my cams to delta. but what would my compression ratio be with an 07 legacy 2.5i block with the 96 ej22 heads?
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Old 01-08-2011, 07:21 PM   #20
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i'm lost, are you getting an 06 longblock or shortblock?

If its a long block dont even bother with the EJ22 heads
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Old 01-09-2011, 01:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
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ok i got busy for awhile, but i picked up a pair of dohc heads but there missing cams and cam gears and cam bearings and mayb summin else.
The cams can come from any 97-99 EJ25D heads, but not having the cam caps is a huge hinderence. They are line bored with the heads as a package. IMHO, the heads are junk. I'd scrap them.

Quote:
so im thinking of going back to my 2.2 heads i found sumone i know that may be able 2 pnp my heads i wanna send my cams to delta. but what would my compression ratio be with an 07 legacy 2.5i block with the 96 ej22 heads?
Delta can do the cams and heads. Your friend should open up that exhaust side to get the extra volume from the bigger displacement out more efficiently. Your CR should be in the upper 11:1 range with that new of bottom end.

Jay
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:08 PM   #22
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no i have a 07 2.5i shortblock from a legacy. i have the caps to the heads just no cams or rockers and i dont feel like searching for the parts cam gears and who knows what else. i have the 2.2 heads and a strong block so im thinking built heads with 11:1 should be safe ill probly have it tuned also.
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Old 01-09-2011, 06:54 PM   #23
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I'd rather stick with the 2.5L heads, do the P&P to even out the flow between cylinders, valve springs, etc., and then I'd simply get high compression pistons to get the compression up to where you want. You'll get better results that way. You can toss on Eagle rods and Wiseco pistons to lighten the rotating assembly a decent amount. Stock parts are a bit more heafty. Some work could even be done on the crank to lighten the system. Along with a light weight flywheel, this can be an extremely responsive motor.
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:33 PM   #24
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BRR: Toss up a Wiseco part number for high compression slugs. They don't list anything even at stock compression levels. They don't list the TWE specs either. I've been looking....


Jay
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:41 PM   #25
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im not getting into all that but if sumone is willing to sell me the parts i need id still go with the dohc but if not ill just deal with the 2.2's
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