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Old 11-23-2014, 06:34 PM   #1
Dave D.
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20g-xtr 410/395 JJtuned

Default Blouch 20g-xtr 410/395 vs. my old hta68 383/404

First of all, a comparison of graphs. The results are both from a dynocom, although one was Dom's and the 20g-xtr graph is from John's at Infront. As both dynos gave readings of about 300/350 for a stage 2 tuned STi, the results should be fairly comparable, as the ambient temps, altitude and humidity readings were nearly identical as well. I'll have to get another graph from John that shows the details. The builds are virtually identical, with a couple of possible difference-makers. I averaged the 2 20g-xtr runs for the title's numbers.

For now, here are the graphs, build details to follow later today:





Here are the build specs, old vs. new. The specs are mostly identical to the hta68 build, so I will post them along with changes in parentheses:

Car: 2006 WRX
Tuner: Dominic (John at Infront)
Dyno Info: Dynocom
Transmission: JDM 6-speed
Gear:4th
Peak HP at RPM: 382.9 @6100 rpm (410@6800)
Peak Torque at RPM: 404.5 @ 4200 rpm, (395@4300)
Baseline hp/tq for a Stage 2 Sti on same dyno: 300/350

Target Boost: 21.8 psi (20.4 psi)
Target AFR: 10.7
Fuel: 92 pump (92 pump + octane booster about 95 octane)

Engine/Power Modifications: HTA68 with 10cm hotside (Blouch 20g-xtr/10cm), Helix catted downpipe ("test" pipe w/internal gate), ETS intercooler, Invidia Q300 catback, Gimmick inlet hose, 1000cc injectors, Walbro fuel pump, APS Cold air intake (Cobb intake), Agency Power UEL header, TGV deletes, Grimmspeed Uppipe, Prosport MBC for hybrid boost control (manual boost control deleted).

I went with a Maxwell Power Factor SS EJ257 with some B25 heads. The block has JE pistons, H-beam rods, ACL bearings and is balanced/blueprinted. I also added some stronger springs and 264 exhaust cams, plus an Accessport so that Dom could do a speed density tune (John talked me into a V3, got the factory trade deal.) . A post-intercooler IAT sensor helps keep things safer. (New block, pistons, rings, bearings, accessories, etc. Also Killer B windage tray)

Driveline Modifications: JDM 6-speed, stock Sti clutch
Suspension Modifications: Whiteline F/R swaybars, Stoptech stage 2 brakes
Tires: Federal SS595 215/45/17 on stock WRX wheels. (Federal SS595 225/45/17, GPS says dead-on with car speedo now.)

Other differences: John wanted to do a speed-density tune, but could not interface with the new software. He did a EBCS tune with the stock MAF. A bigger MAF or speed-density could net a few more horses, he said.
I also used Lucas Octane booster which raised the octane from 92 closer to 95. I'm going to run octane booster both because it adds a margin of safety, a bit more power, as as an insurance policy because there is so much crap gas out there nowadays, imo. John thought it helped, and I'm running 1.5 psi less boost with the new turbo anyway.

Impressions: You can see how the hp just keeps climbing with the Blouch. It puts you back in your seat and monstrously holds you there. Although it boosts later than the hta68, it produces 20 more avg tq from 3500rpm through 7000rpm than the hta68 does. With the JDM 6-speed there is no let-up in the pull. It just plain feels meaner.
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Last edited by Dave D.; 11-23-2014 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:00 PM   #2
Airboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave D. View Post
Although it boosts later than the hta68, it produces 50 more at 3500rpm as the hta does.
At 3500rpm I see ~350ft-lb for the HTA68 and ~300ft-lb for the 20G-XTR
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:10 PM   #3
Dave D.
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Originally Posted by Airboy View Post
At 3500rpm I see ~350ft-lb for the HTA68 and ~300ft-lb for the 20G-XTR
Thank you for spotting that. You are quite correct regarding the wtq. (Thanks for the further remediation below!)

Last edited by Dave D.; 11-23-2014 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:36 PM   #4
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Thank you for spotting that. You are quite correct regarding the wtq. I was referring to the whp. That would be 250whp vs. 300whp for the Blouch.
The 20G-XTR made ~200whp at 3500rpm
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:54 PM   #5
Dave D.
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Originally Posted by Airboy View Post
The 20G-XTR made ~200whp at 3500rpm
Boy, some math teacher I am! Back to summer school, I guess!

I tried some more math, by the way. Hope it works better this time.

Last edited by Dave D.; 11-23-2014 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 11-24-2014, 01:49 AM   #6
Dave D.
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Still trying to quantify why the car feels so much faster. Took a look at the powerbands of both turbos. The hta68 had a great pb from 3500 where peak tq starts to 6200 (peak hp), averaging about 360wtq and 310 hp during this window. Take the same window of 2700 rpm (which is a huge window with my jdm 6-speed), from 4200 rpm to 6900 rpm, and the car now averages about 350 tq and 360 hp. The tq is a little down, but the hp average is +50.

That's a huge hp increase, about 15 percent. Feel free to check my math, of course!
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Old 11-25-2014, 02:08 PM   #7
wgr73
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Heck ya, you're right! Very similar. Gotta love these turbos, so much fun on the street. I like your setup, should last a very long time!
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Old 11-29-2014, 06:11 PM   #8
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No. no. The torque is also up, sir! Peak torque is lower, but it's more flat. There is also about +50 torque at 7k rpms, on the 20G. I'm sure that's a big part of why it feels faster. Cool comparison. Thanks for posting.
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Old 11-29-2014, 11:24 PM   #9
Dave D.
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No. no. The torque is also up, sir! Peak torque is lower, but it's more flat. There is also about +50 torque at 7k rpms, on the 20G. I'm sure that's a big part of why it feels faster. Cool comparison. Thanks for posting.
That's a good point. I was looking in the wrong place for the torque. I'll have to try that 50-100 pull soon.
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Old 12-04-2014, 12:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
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The 20G-XTR made ~200whp at 3500rpm
Go big or go home!!
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Old 12-04-2014, 03:00 PM   #11
Dave D.
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Go big or go home!!
Well, a big MAF housing and 4-bar MAP are in the cards sometime in the near future. The motor has gotten stronger as the ecu has been learning on the street -- the octane booster really works, and, given today's gasoline, provides some peace of mind.

Looking to add a couple more psi when I go bigger.
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Old 12-05-2014, 12:14 PM   #12
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Glad to see you finally got a turbo I would like!

Obviously your peak boost is coming in around 500 rpm later than with the HTA68, but your HP is still climbing at redline vs peaking at 6500rpm. This along with the flatter torque is going to make the car feel a lot faster up top.

The OEM GR STi MAP sensor has more range than your factory MAP sensor and is more reliable than the OMNI/Perrin 4 bar MAP sensors. I would recommend one of those if you desire more than 22psi of boost on your daily driver or race gas map.

I would advise against a large MAF housing. Cobb SD is a much better way to go, in my opinion.
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Old 12-05-2014, 12:47 PM   #13
Dave D.
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Originally Posted by MPS-Dom View Post
Glad to see you finally got a turbo I would like!

Obviously your peak boost is coming in around 500 rpm later than with the HTA68, but your HP is still climbing at redline vs peaking at 6500rpm. This along with the flatter torque is going to make the car feel a lot faster up top.

The OEM GR STi MAP sensor has more range than your factory MAP sensor and is more reliable than the OMNI/Perrin 4 bar MAP sensors. I would recommend one of those if you desire more than 22psi of boost on your daily driver or race gas map.

I would advise against a large MAF housing. Cobb SD is a much better way to go, in my opinion.
Yes, John wanted to do SD but could not interface with my new v3 accessport. I should just probably wait for him to get the necessary update. I have heard varying things about big MAF housings and drivability. Thanks for the advice on the MAP!

Yes, the new turbo is great. Should have listened to you first time around!
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:14 PM   #14
Dave D.
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Double post.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:41 PM   #15
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You really can't compare the peak numbers because they come from 2 different dyno's. Yeah they may be the same brand but, the dynocoms are known to read very different between each different dyno. A dynocom isn't made to the exact tolerances as say a $120k dyno dynamics which pretty much all read the same out of the box.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:53 PM   #16
Dave D.
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You really can't compare the peak numbers because they come from 2 different dyno's. Yeah they may be the same brand but, the dynocoms are known to read very different between each different dyno. A dynocom isn't made to the exact tolerances as say a $120k dyno dynamics which pretty much all read the same out of the box.
The only other comparison I can give you is that the HTA68 timed 50-100 in 5.5 seconds, While the 20g-xtr managed 5.1. Both at about 45 degrees ambient.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:54 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Dave D. View Post
Still trying to quantify why the car feels so much faster. Took a look at the powerbands of both turbos. The hta68 had a great pb from 3500 where peak tq starts to 6200 (peak hp), averaging about 360wtq and 310 hp during this window. Take the same window of 2700 rpm (which is a huge window with my jdm 6-speed), from 4200 rpm to 6900 rpm, and the car now averages about 350 tq and 360 hp. The tq is a little down, but the hp average is +50.

That's a huge hp increase, about 15 percent. Feel free to check my math, of course!

It's pretty simple actually...
The higher up you make torque and the longer it holds makes for a faster car. 20wtq at 6000rpm is worth a lot more than 20wtq at 3500rpm (about double to be exact)
Having tons of torque at 3500rpm on a dyno is useless on the street unless you are towing a big trailer up a hill.
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:22 PM   #18
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did the old motor blow?
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Old 12-15-2014, 10:39 PM   #19
Dave D.
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did the old motor blow?
Yes, and my tuner's best guess is that my catted downpipe internally disintegrated (it had about 100k on it) during a long mountainous drive last summer, causing a piston to overheat and scuff the walls of the block which then led to rod knock. He showed me the downpipe after he replaced it and was literally able to shake chunks out of it.
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Old 12-17-2014, 12:37 PM   #20
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I remember my buddy Kirby's 20g STi car, still one of the funnest and most reliable setups ever. Kudos, Dave.
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Old 12-17-2014, 03:07 PM   #21
Dave D.
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Did my 50-100 pull. Just under 5.1 seconds. My best on the HTA68 was 5.5.
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Old 12-20-2014, 10:35 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave D. View Post
Yes, and my tuner's best guess is that my catted downpipe internally disintegrated (it had about 100k on it) during a long mountainous drive last summer, causing a piston to overheat and scuff the walls of the block which then led to rod knock. He showed me the downpipe after he replaced it and was literally able to shake chunks out of it.
Yikes.
Excessive back pressure will do that. Glad you got to the bottom of it all.

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Old 12-27-2014, 09:13 AM   #23
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Nice numbers Dave! Looks like a fun setup! John will be tuning my setup as well. I was heavily looking into a 20g-xtr until I found a deal on a rotated gt3076 I couldn't pass up. Is there any particular reason why you chose to add octane booster over meth injection for safety?

Also Have you thought about doing a hybrid tune(SD/MAF)? I was running SD only with my last STI and I would sometimes have a rough idle/stall, especially after changing maps. I'm gonna ask him about doing a hybrid next time I talk to him.

Last edited by mligeikis19; 12-27-2014 at 09:51 AM. Reason: Found answer
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Old 12-27-2014, 11:00 AM   #24
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Any time you use SD in any form, it is correct to put the iat before the tb or in the intake Manifold.
I move the iat for maf tunes as well because it creates a more consistent and safer tune.
Many of the jdm cars have an iat in the manifold in addition to the maf.

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Old 12-27-2014, 12:37 PM   #25
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Good to know, thanks Dom!
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