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Old 09-22-2010, 12:34 PM   #1
FreshNSoft
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Default Timimg belt/water pump help

Ok I have a 04 2.5 RS. Its in the body shop and the whloe front end is disassembled. Is the timing belt and water pump a job that I could do? I have a fairly good knowledge of cars and how to work on them. Or is there a timing belts for dummies on here orr any sort of help? Thanks mike
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Old 09-22-2010, 03:19 PM   #2
ibanez24_7
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Timing belt is just time consuming job. With your car torn apart you might as well do it now of you already planned on it. There are a couple great threads in here on timing belt installation.
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Old 09-22-2010, 03:26 PM   #3
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YES do water pump and timing belt now. It's not really all that difficult, especially if the front of the car is already torn down. The only thing you really have to watch is making sure to line up the timing marks when you put on the new belt.

On a somewhat related offshoot... exactly how does one check for a piston at "top dead center" in a horizontally opposed engine?
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:51 PM   #4
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Probably an hour's worth of work, taking your time.

Go for it.

Jay
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:19 PM   #5
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I kno the basic idea of it but anything special or I need to look out for? And links to other thread? Thanks
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm View Post
Probably an hour's worth of work, taking your time.

Go for it.

Jay

I agree. With the front gone, the work is cut into a 1/3 of what it would normaly take. If your mechanically inclined, you can do it.
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:33 AM   #7
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Get ahold of the FSM, and follow the instructions for the job. It's very straightforward.

Only kinks I can think of right now, would be to make sure the timing belt tensioner is compressed nice and slow, and make sure the weep hole is toward the front of the car when installing the thermostat. EDIT: Check the tensioner by pulling up on the upper right belt area. Look specifically for the tensioner to bounce upward. If it moves up, replace it. If the belt stretches and the tensioner barely moves, it's probably good for another service interval. Since you're replacing the belt and the waterpump, slowly pry up with a pinchbar between the pump pulley and tensioner idler. Put a 1.5-2mm allen key into the little hole of the tensioner body and through the shaft and out the back hole, to hold it compressed. Watch the drivers side cam.....it might want to spring off the camlobes when you remove the belt.

Inspect all idlers for funky bearings. If in doubt, replace them. It's an interference motor.....being safe is a good thing.

When reinstalling, put the hashmark (not the arrow) of the crank gear and both cams at 12:00, noting that the drivers side will be up on the lobes (valves partially opened). I put the idlers in just a couple threads and leave the bottom left (as looking at it) idler out completely. Put the tensioner assembly in and tighten it, then check for free pivoting. If it binds up when tight, look for the washer that is missing off the backside. Thread the belt onto the crank first, use the odd colored mark near the label. Move to the drivers side and pull the belt so the mark falls on the hashmark of the gear. Hold steady while wrapping the belt around the cam and over the waterpump pulley then under the toothed idler.

Now go to the crank and route the belt through the idlers to the passenger side cam. Line up the mark. Hold the drivers side cam while you wrap around the passenger cam. Once around both cams, use the last idler against the belt while you lift up and start threading it into the hole. Once started, evenly tighten all the idlers, torque them to the FSM specs (~30-35 ft/lbs ???). Check the marks again and the cam positions. If good, pull the pin on the tensioner.

It is most important to hand crank the motor through a few cycles to verify the timing marks come back in time. The cams should line up at 12:00 every 2nd crank turn. The belt marks will not line up again, that's okay. Do this 2-3 complete cycles, or 6-8 complete crank turns. This will not only verify without a doubt that the motor is correctly timed, but it'll give the tensioner enough time to extend and provide proper tension on the belt.

Now you can put the covers back on and button things up. If the front isn't already on stands, lift it up. Fill the radiator with coolant mix and start the car. There should be no odd noises from the belt, other than a whine from the new teeth running in. Top off the rad as it drops level. Keep doing this until the t-stat opens up. Put the heater on full hot and feel for heat. Watch for bubbles to stop appearing. If the coolant starts burping out, shut the car off and let it cool some. Restart later, top it off and check for bubbles. Once the bubbles have stopped showing up, put the cap back on....you're done.


Jay

Last edited by Storm; 09-23-2010 at 04:40 PM.
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:55 AM   #8
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Don't forget the tensioner for the timing belt either!
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Old 09-23-2010, 12:45 PM   #9
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Just a warning about prying on the tensioner to push it back. You may end up with air in the tensioner. The correct procedure is to put it up right in a press and compress it no faster than 4 minutes. I didn't believe it would make a difference untill I tried it both ways and tested it. There is a bleed procedure if air is pushed in. Other than that go for dude it's a very easy job.
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:36 PM   #10
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When I typed "slowly pry", I meant that gentle pressure should be applied to the tensioner. Doing it while it's still on the motor means much less distance to move it before it's cocked. It's already nicely secured in a vertical position and shouldn't harm the internal valving unless you try to heave it down in one fell swoop.

Since we're splitting hairs now, be careful about saying "push it back" as the early style tensioner (not what the OP has) is mounted horizontal and must be cocked in that position as well, not vertical as typed in the next sentence.

For the OP: If there is any doubt about the fitness of the tensioner (milage or plain old age factors)......replace it. It's always money well spent for peace of mind.

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Old 09-23-2010, 10:24 PM   #11
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Im very sorry for giving the procedure I was taught at my boxer engine class. Three other techs in the class stated that they do it in the car as well and I though our instructor was going to come unglued. Im not trying to split hairs here Im just trying to help.
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:35 PM   #12
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You could replace cam/crank seals too if you want. Cheap part and peace of mind.
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfelix View Post
Im very sorry for giving the procedure I was taught at my boxer engine class. Three other techs in the class stated that they do it in the car as well and I though our instructor was going to come unglued. Im not trying to split hairs here Im just trying to help.
It's all good. As long as the tensioner isn't forced, and is done in the correct orientation, it will live through it. It's a time saver that the techs probably learned (flat rate pay an' all) by doing them on a regular basis.

Jay
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:08 PM   #14
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If you just take off the lower left idler pulley first, you don't have to pry on anything at all. It comes off easily as there isn't that much belt pressure on it if you line everything up at TDC first.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:42 PM   #15
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if you line the marks up right and the car is in time all pistons should be at the same level all four cylinders.
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Old 09-27-2010, 04:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Y_I_K_E_S View Post
If you just take off the lower left idler pulley first, you don't have to pry on anything at all. It comes off easily as there isn't that much belt pressure on it if you line everything up at TDC first.
True, but then the tensioner fully extends and takes that much longer to recompress properly. With everything there as it sits when you first pull the covers and put it in position for removal, the distance needed to pin the tensioner is very short and takes about 1 minute or less with very little effort.

Either way, the lower pulley coming off helps greatly in removing the belt. I also suggest having a 17mm socket on a breaker bar (non-ratcheting) to hold the drivers cam steady when you release the belt tension. Then it can slowly be allowed to turn off the cam lobe while you move on to other things.

Food for thought....
Jay
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Old 09-27-2010, 05:06 PM   #17
FreshNSoft
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Timing is done..not too bad. Did all the pulleys and tenioners too. All new seals. Ready to put back together
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:01 PM   #18
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Good job!

Jay
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